Are there advantages of being guided by a Curandero over doing DMT alone?

[Jamie01]

What are people talking about when they say “rational”? Rational, mainstream science is already producing convincing theories of consciousness that rely on quantum phenomena. It’s not really fair to assume anyone who follows neuroscience etc is just a rational blockhead who thinks we are nothing but meat suits.

There are explanations that fit within scientific theory, and could allow for weird psychic phenomena.

You can find amazement anywhere. Just depends what you focus on. Physics is the ultimate WTF. Nothing rational about it.

 

[Voidmatrix]

There's no way to dialogue with me in an unadulterated way you'll get your way. This has also occurred because you dug yourself a hole.

There are implications to you thinking you're special here because time and again you talk about being what the Nexus needs, and need to mention how important and popular your posts are. That's some high school behavior. So again, why are you so special?

This just brings up the dialogue thread you started. You didn't want to be handled with kid gloves when new, we took the gloves off, and now you can't handle it.

Also, this isn't your forum or website. When in Rome. You don't go to someone else's home, and rearrange their furniture as if you have a say. If you don't like how things operate, again, you don't have to be here.

You can either deeply observe what's being said to you without your defensiveness and adopt a better and more open attitude (because as much as you act like an open individual, it's been shown to be otherwise), or continue having interactions like the ones you're having today.

One love

 

[Ajqij]

The sequence of conversations has nothing to do with this. If you are unable to turn a blank page and ignore all of these comments you deem so disrespectful and immature towards you, and you keep replying with overgeneralizations and victim mentality, then you're no better than the people you point to.

If you are unable to understand that, then I'm afraid your 20 years of life with the elders gave you little practical wisdom in exchange. Stay with it all you want, but realize that if you keep doing what you're doing, you won't make any friends here or have many meaningful conversations.

Your time and energy are yours. The choice of how you employ them - likewise.

I believe that without following the sequence of how something was initiated, how it progressed, and how the results arose is essential to critical thinking. And as for "friends" I've made some here and they have shared in private with me that they value what I bring and that this forum is populated with a sizeable number of arrogant, self-appointed, go-it-alone experts, who dismiss anything that does not comply with the empirical religion of science.

Ok, maybe I made an error in choosing this site to share what I've learned over the years, but now that I'm here I will stay with it until (and only until there are NO members who value my contributions). Why? Because I'm rigid beyond belief? Perhaps, but it might also be that I value people, even if it is only one person, as every human being counts. Blessings . . . and "embers" are what triggered the stars to shine so perhaps casting the activity only within a personification of a “personal inferno” might be expanded?

 

[Here&Now]

What are people talking about when they say “rational”? Rational, mainstream science is already producing convincing theories of consciousness that rely on quantum phenomena. It’s not really fair to assume anyone who follows neuroscience etc is just a rational blockhead who thinks we are nothing but meat suits.

There are explanations that fit within scientific theory, and could allow for weird psychic phenomena.

You can find amazement anywhere. Just depends what you focus on. Physics is the ultimate WTF. Nothing rational about it.

If I were to throw out a wild guess, we're like one breakthrough away from a discovery that blows everything wide open. Some kind of multidimensional, "aether-based" understanding of reality that opens more technological and spiritual doors than any of us can imagine. Though I wouldn't say we're quite there yet, and there's still a lot of room for doubt in many peoples' minds. But I agree; even our current understanding allows for the unfathomable.

 

[dithyramb]

I really resonate with your posts, @Here&Now2.

Yes, some people are hard wired to require things to be established as scientific facts before believing them. I am not such a person, but this place feels mostly run by this viewpoint, and as you said, it is a strength and something to appreciate. Though this is not just about personal thinking styles. I think any large and diverse collective is healthiest when it does not embody a worldview that is different from the scientific consensus. It's like the equivalent of a secular Democratic country. And like in a true democracy, everybody is free to have their own worldviews and to express them, but trying to convert people is something else, and trying to change the ideology of the government is like attempting a coup

FWIW, I am an anomaly with my extreme sensitivity and I feel traditionally prepared medicine is healthier and that I cannot stray from it. But that's just me and I don't try to convince people about it, and I definitely don't try to imply how I am superior because of it. You know what, I also happen to believe in astrology, and my north node being Gemini means I have to learn to not come across as arrogant in my exchanges with people. I know how guilty I have been of this for most of my life, and I understand other people struggling with this.

 

[Voidmatrix]

There are explanations that fit within scientific theory, and could allow for weird psychic phenomena.

Let's have some fun and highlight where science falls a little short.

First, it only explains physical phenomena, and we don't know, metaphysically, if that's actually accurate in it's totality. Really it just works for what we want it to. But there could be elements of reality that influence us that are outside a physicals scope. The idea that science can explain everything is an argument of faith my those is fall in line with physicalism and materialism.

Unobserved observables are things we presume to exist by proxy of a rationale and an observation. No one has ever seen gravity. But we feel we can make assertions based on observing it's function, ie, pulling things to its center.

The more we compound inductive reasoning the further we move from higher levels of likely certainty.

Then measurement. It's likely there are things going on we can't perceive and have yet to be able to measure and so it falls outside the scientific scope.

One love

 

[Nydex]

I believe that without following the sequence of how something was initiated, how it progressed, and how the results arose is essential to critical thinking. And as for "friends" I've made some here and they have shared in private with me that they value what I bring and that this forum is populated with a sizeable number of arrogant, self-appointed, go-it-alone experts, who dismiss anything that does not comply with the empirical religion of science.

Ok, maybe I made an error in choosing this site to share what I've learned over the years, but now that I'm here I will stay with it until (and only until there are NO members who value my contributions). Why? Because I'm rigid beyond belief? Perhaps, but it might also be that I value people, even if it is only one person, as every human being counts. Blessings . . . and "embers" are what triggered the stars to shine so perhaps casting the activity only within a personification of a “personal inferno” might be expanded?

I've actually enjoyed most of the content you've shared and the things you've shown related to the different cultures you've been dabbling in, but it's often served with a hefty dollop of victim mentality, fingerpointing, and a constant "but he said X to me", and that makes it all very hard for me personally (and from the looks of it, many others as well) to want to interact with.

You seem to like to think of yourself as a decently wise and mature person, yet you've shown a profound lack in your ability to let go of things and this just decreases my desire to interact with you.

 

[Voidmatrix]

arrogant, self-appointed, go-it-alone experts, who dismiss anything that does not comply with the empirical religion of science

Guess you belong here then because you're pretty arrogant yourself.

One love

 

[Ajqij]

Sure, using the ideas about synthesized DMT as an example, everything you're saying could actually be true. But humanity as a whole is currently lacking any widely accepted evidence that it's the case. And perhaps to the contrary, it's my understanding that synthesized DMT's chemical structure is identical to the naturally occurring form in plants and animals. If there's a substantial difference between the two, it's possible we lack the tools to measure it.

I'm not trying to say my personal opinion lands on one side of the debate or the other, but barring some kind of convincing factor beyond subjective opinions, some people are just hardwired to not accept the intake of new information without it reaching a certain degree of verifiability. I think that can be both a gift and a curse. It's a gift because that level of stringency has pushed humanity forward into the modern technical age we all enjoy, but it could also be considered a curse because major revelations may go unnoticed for a lot longer due to their perceived unlikeliness of being true.

I don't know; I'm doing a lot of babbling, lol. The main point is that some people are just naturally skeptical and others are simply less so, and it's probably best to learn how to navigate between the two to communicate in the most effective way.

Totally understand and I appreciate the degree of self-reflection you are engaging in, not that I'm an expert, far from it, but nonetheless I appreciate it. "Chemically identical" does not mean "cosmologically identical." At the beginning of the last century, just such assumptions were made about the nature of light. It appeared to be identical to the nature of particles . . . then it appeared to be identical to the nature of waves. Bet ya what is coming next is that it is neither and both. Science hates that but their faces are being rubbed into the medium of their own arrogance. This site believes in a scientific approach, cool I can respect that. But what about expanding to another valid approach? One that has been around far longer than the world's universities have been.

Don't mind skepticism. . . it's cynicism that I take issue with as it is contrary to the entire context of this genre. And exploring what lies beyond the comprehension of human understanding isn't about friendly relations in my opinion, it's about understanding the way the cosmos works, which is far from friendly. Again, much appreciation for your contributions to me and this thread.

 

[Ajqij]

Guess you belong here then because you're pretty arrogant yourself.

One love

Nice to know I'm among friends V! Maybe we can agree on that and actually transition into having a useful dialogue?

 

[fink]

Love it @fink . . . I expect to get push back and lots of it. I'm not a newbie to the reality that we human beings tend to invalidate what we do not yet understand. I'm take the heat and say more.

See, that kind of sounds like you are inferring that the push back you're experiencing is because you dont think we understand what you know.

Humans here are patient, loving, generous and most of all, forgiving. I know the last one personally.

But humans here absolutely do not want any kind of lesson without first requesting one.

 

[Ajqij]

I've actually enjoyed most of the content you've shared and the things you've shown related to the different cultures you've been dabbling in, but it's often served with a hefty dollop of victim mentality, fingerpointing, and a constant "but he said X to me", and that makes it all very hard for me personally (and from the looks of it, many others as well) to want to interact with.

You seem to like to think of yourself as a decently wise and mature person, yet you've shown a profound lack in your ability to let go of things and this just decreases my desire to interact with you.

It's all good Nydex, just as in the scientific community there are plenty of diverse ways of conducting research and huge camps of disagreement. Somehow they all manage to get along, albiet, there are some very nasty tactics being employed within their ranks. Thanks for your "embers," I appreciate the illumination and even the heat they provide. Shine on brother.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Agree on you being arrogant? Sure.

Perhaps you've forgotten, but we've had a few pleasant interactions already.

It's interesting to me: you have this... method we'll call it, where when you're called out on something and you happen to see the error of your ways, someone else needs to join you in contrition and inner work...

One love

 

[Ajqij]

See, that kind of sounds like you are inferring that the push back you're experiencing is because you dont think we understand what you know.

Humans here are patient, loving, generous and most of all, forgiving. I know the last one personally.

But humans here absolutely do not want any kind of lesson without first requesting one.

What I'm "inferring" is not nessessarily what I'm suggesting @fink. To infer is what a receiver of a message concludes and not nessessarily what the sender is "implying." But hey, no worries as a little controversy is seems to be awakening people's interest, oppinions, and particpation here in the Nexus.

 

[Ajqij]

Agree on you being arrogant? Sure.

Perhaps you've forgotten, but we've had a few pleasant interactions already.

It's interesting to me: you have this... method we'll call it, where when you're called out on something and you happen to see the error of your ways, someone else needs to join you in contrition and inner work...

One love

We've agreed we are both arrogant, and yes, we've agreed that there have been both useful and unuseful interactions between us. What I'm unsure about is what direction you are nudging our interaction towards now. Do you have a question about something?

 

[Voidmatrix]

We've agreed we are both arrogant, and yes, we've agreed that there have been both useful and unuseful interactions between us. What I'm unsure about is what direction you are nudging our interaction towards now. Do you have a question about something?

I'm not taking blame for anything. This is your work to do. And again, nice try, I did not agree that I was arrogant, so it's a half agreement of sorts, because I do think you are.

Its interesting, I highlight your tactic and you use the very same tactic in the subsequent response. Most of my interactions are neither useful or unuseful for me relative to you. You'd likely get a lot of use of paying attention to what I'm saying.

And while you might think that's arrogance, it's not. I wouldn't be in this conversation if I weren't a mod.

Now, you've been shown, by many people that are part of this forum the work you need to do. You're rowing a boat alone. No one needs to look in a mirror but you. No one needs to agree that they also did something off. This is all revolving around you.

One love

 

[northape]

 

[Ajqij]

We've agreed we are both arrogant, and yes, we've agreed that there have been both useful and unuseful interactions between us. What I'm unsure about is what direction you are nudging our interaction towards now. Do you have a question about something?

I'm not taking blame for anything. This is your work to do. And again, nice try, I did not agree that I was arrogant, so it's a half agreement of sorts, because I do think you are.

Its interesting, I highlight your tactic and you use the very same tactic in the subsequent response. Most of my interactions are neither useful or unuseful for me relative to you. You'd likely get a lot of use of paying attention to what I'm saying.

And while you might think that's arrogance, it's not. I wouldn't be in this conversation if I weren't a mod.

Now, you've been shown, by many people that are part of this forum the work you need to do. You're rowing a boat alone. No one needs to look in a mirror but you. No one needs to agree that they also did something off. This is all revolving around you.

One love

As you wish V. Consider this "dialogue" over. I'll not engage with people who take no responsibility for their part in communiaction breakldowns. Not gonna reply to you further. Blessings on your path.

 

[Here&Now]

I really resonate with your posts, @Here&Now2.

Yes, some people are hard wired to require things to be established as scientific facts before believing them. I am not such a person, but this place feels mostly run by this viewpoint, and as you said, it is a strength and something to appreciate. Though this is not just about personal thinking styles. I think any large and diverse collective is healthiest when it does not embody a worldview that is different from the scientific consensus. It's like the equivalent of a secular Democratic country. And like in a true democracy, everybody is free to have their own worldviews and to express them, but trying to convert people is something else, and trying to change the ideology of the government is like attempting a coup

FWIW, I am an anomaly with my extreme sensitivity and I feel traditionally prepared medicine is healthier and that I cannot stray from it. But that's just me and I don't try to convince people about it, and I definitely don't try to imply how I am superior because of it. You know what, I also happen to believe in astrology, and my north node being Gemini means I have to learn to not come across as arrogant in my exchanges with people. I know how guilty I have been of this for most of my life, and I understand other people struggling with this.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I really enjoy your posts as well, as they're often right up my alley.

That's an interesting point about communities which are especially well-functioning. They do very often seem to lean in the direction of supporting the scientific consensus, along with a healthy tolerance for those who skirt around the edges of the norm. It's just the right type of factors to produce a harmonious situation. I'm guessing these similarities aren't just a coincidence.

When it comes to food, substances, etc., I usually go with the less man-made and more natural option as well. I guess that's mostly due to my reverence for the hidden brilliance and complexity of nature and perhaps a slight distrust that humans have advanced to a point where we can actually match it, at least in some areas. And I'm sure you've noticed in other threads; I believe in plenty of wild stuff as well, lol. Like you mentioned, it's all good as long as we don't enter the discussion expecting others to instantly adopt our beliefs.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Take personal accountability and responsibility, for yourself, stop worrying about everyone else. That's all there is to it.

As for communication breakdown, you're manipulating the situation. I'm in this thread because you were passively whining again and it's a habit and it needs to stop. Then I did my moderation duties in defense of dithyramb.

One love