Arousal Addiction

[obliguhl]

A while back, i have started this Thread about abstaining from sexual experiences for longer periods of time.

John Smith has brought this back into my mind. He posted this video. In short, it argues that porn addiction is widespread, and that it changes our brain in a negative way. Our dopamine system get numbed down which can not only lead to erectile disfunction, but also to a feeling of boredom, depression and social anxiety.

I have always wondered why more and more younger people talk about taking viagra. But it all makes sense now. The video advocates a porn abstincence period of 4-5 months, to rewire once brain. The thing is, that there is a real risk, that one could just switch over to other methods of attaining instant gratification: Videogames, Shitty Television, Comfort Food - you name it!

I know that a "no fap" marathon just keeps your mind occupied with Sex or at least there is a risk that this happens. To avoid these kinds of pitfall, i decided to create this thread in order to prepare a plan on how to effectively stop arousal addiction. Lately, i've been more and more thinking about how to tailor your environment to really stimulate personal growth. In the past, i've often complained about things you can't simply change. Things which DO effect and hinder your growth. But the fact that these barriers exist doesn't justify lapsing into the realms of commodified experiences and instant gratification. Because by doing so, you most likely do not help yourself mustering up the strength to pull away the barriers.

But a good plan is a must.

This is what i've come up with so far. Feel free to add ideas.

1. No porn (obviously)
2. Masturbation not more often than every 3 days
3. Focusing on the sensation of sexual arousal, not on automatic porn phantasies behind
4. Videogames once per month max. (not a problem for me since i don't play)
5. Stopping to constantly check emails, stats, browsing forums (very hard!)
6. No Junk TV (reality TV etc)
7. No CONSTANT music

Thanks again to John Smith for bringing it up. It all makes a lot of sense actually, but it takes something to really think about it because it's to easy to judge "porn hate" as anti-sexual - it is not.

It's about breaking addiction.

 

[jamie]

I really think the idea that porn is an addiction that leads to errectile disfunction is one lacking evidence.

Sure it might desensitize people to some degree but there is far moer evidence for men being basically deficient is testosterone in our culture from other factors..like dietary, lifestyle etc. There has been some sort of negative agenda out to get testosterone for some time but really it is part of what makes us men..and plays a key role is sex drive drive etc.

The problem is probly complex and rooted in multiple places.

 

[Infundibulum]

There is always a hefty amount of porn stored in brain's memory. And sexual fantasies are in a way the brain's natural-made porn. Also, if you have ever seen porn, you are already primed...your memory already has what it needs to make the best porn ever regardless of whether you see it or not.

I see two (not mutually exclusive) solutions here;

1. see porn with very unattractive people, or porn that you would normally dont' find attractive i.e. wash your brain before the porn abstinence.

2. Go out, get drunk and shag whatever potential partner is around, preferably the 3/10 to 6/10 ones. See what sex can also be like. Make it your sole and only option for some time.


Especially with unearthly repulsive people or very bad porn you will DEFINITELY want to focus on sexual arousal just to make anything happen

I would personally go for neonazi 200kg+ chicks with shaved bald head.

 

[Vodsel]

Fat bald neonazi chicks (you forgot the requirement of rotten cabbage body odor) would not only kill arousal... they would make my genitals shrink until they popped out of existence.

Also, lol.

One point for obliguhl's plan might be deemphasizing orgasm. It's related to #3. The compulsive element of addiction relies on gratification and anticipation, orgasm is overrated and breaking that routine may be a game changer for some people.

 

[jamie]

Honestly I would just go have sex and experience w/e it is your missing out on before you worry about trying to be abstinent or not getting aroused etc. It is normal to get aroused as we are men and women(or other men for some) are attractive and make us aroused. It is just natural.

..although being addicted to porn is a different story. Alot of porn is just degrading towards women anyway and so people who find that aspect of it arousing probly have some other weird stuff going on upstairs.

No offence Obliguhl but you seem to have a facination with this whole topic of sexuality based on all of these threads..have you tried just going out and being social in the right circumstances and meeting someone?..or trying to meet people in your area online etc?..my sister goes on dates with people from online sites and it seems to work out okay for her.. The best way to figure all of this out is to just find someone you really like and connect with and experience sex and what it means to you and how a porn addiction etc compares or fits in or w/e..

I think that even the idea of having a rigid schedule of how many days you go with out masternbating etc is just sort of an obsession with the whole thing. Just go out and try to and meet someone nice that you can explore all of this with. It will probly answer a lot of your questions.

 

[SpartanII]

Good topic! It seems many people tend to underplay the the addictiveness and consequently, the amount of energy that is potentially lost through casual sex and masturbation.

I understand that there are studies implicating cancer related to abstaining from ejaculation in men, but I don't see these studies taking emotional, psychological, and spiritual factors into account, so I wouldn't place too much faith into them.

In my experience, and in discussing this topic with others, it seems the key to benefiting from sexual abstinence lies in 1. how and where you direct your attention while abstaining, and 2. the amount of mental/emotional energy one has available which is determined by mental attitudes and behavior such as repetitive thought patterns, habits, routines, other addictions that can drain one of energy.

Like any addiction, learning how to save energy and focus your attention can make a big difference in one's ability to abstain/balance. Conscious lifestyle changes and meditation can help a lot with this.

Considering the above, I would like to add to your list:

1. No porn (obviously)
2. Masturbation not more often than every 3 days
3. Focusing on the sensation of sexual arousal, not on automatic porn phantasies behind
4. Videogames once per month max. (not a problem for me since i don't play)
5. Stopping to constantly check emails, stats, browsing forums (very hard!)
6. No Junk TV (reality TV etc)
7. No CONSTANT music

8. Use meditation to learn how to focus and redirect attention when confronted with a sexual stimulus (and unless you're a monk living in a monastery, there will usually be one somewhere).

9. Learn how to save energy by reducing/stopping repetitive thought patterns, habits, routines, other addictions that tend to drain you, one at a time, starting from the least to the most draining.

10. Put your now freed-up energy into constructive thoughts and behaviors that promote a balanced mind and lifestyle.

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

@jamie- I think it makes a lot of sense that porn and chronic masterbation would lead to low-t and erectile disfunction as much of our testosterone is stored in the go-nads. I mean all of our organs have a shelf life.
It only makes sense our genitalia would as well.

If we treat our organs with respect they will last years to come.

But I agree too Jamie, Its not that masterbation or sexual arousal is bad. It can be quite a beast at times though. Were the problem lies is that it can really consume our thoughts if we dont keep it in check. Its just like eating, gambling, t.v. drugs:surprised.


@spartan- I agree, focusing our energy is key to happiness. I believe we are each alloted a certain amount of energy to do with what we will. Sex is probably the most consuming of any activity i can think of. Even fantasies seem to drain me of my energy.

But all in all man, if its a problem, work it out. I have really been trying not to focus energy toward sex until the time comes to have it. It makes the experience much more pleasurable, and leaves me with less guilt. Of course too being in a steady relationship and building mutual feelings before jumping in the sack makes the experience worth while and almost eliminates guilt and perversity for me.

 

[obliguhl]

Well Jamie, if simply being social and meeting a girl would be an option at the moment, I would do it. For many people it is hard to understand, that sometimes, we need to do need to work on ourselves first, before even the most basic needs can be satisfied. Perhaps this comes with the territory. We are all so used to exploring our full potential with psychedelics. To cross into the unknown, to go beyond whats normal. Still, healing entails different things for different people. Some have to start right there, at the bottom of things.

But it's not really about me, it's also not really about sexuality. I do believe that a healthy sex life is of paramount importance. But we're talking about numbing out your brains reward circuts by using Internet Porn, Junk TV, Videogames etc. Erectile Disfunction is but one symptom of this problem. Sure, you can probably alleviate the symptoms by highering your testosterone level, taking viagra...even cacao is a fantastic aphrodisiac! But do you contribute to fighting the root of the problem?

I believe that "no fap" is stupid if you have a arousal addiction, because it just focuses you more and more on Sex. Thiss is why i believe, that regular masturbation or Sex for that matter probably helps. It's compulsory masturbation what may be hurting a lot of people. Yesterday i tried to masturbate without any porn imagery. Infundibulum, you say that we have these memories. Yes, we do, but we can choose not to use them. I learned that this can be pretty hard, even after days of abstinence as it was difficult to get aroused. But after a while i kinda focused on myself and it brought with it a sense of great empowerment. Something to consider!

I love the fact that you Spartan and ntwhtyouknw are contributing additional positive lifestyle changes which might really help with the process. It's becoming more clear to me, that this whole endeavour is about rechanneling your energy into your own body and soul. Perhaps we could provide possible alternative ways of dealing with things.

1.No porn (obviously)

2.Masturbation not more often than every 3 days (7 days might be better). No casual masturbation!

While masturbating, focus on your own body and sensations. Do not allow visual porn phantasies to take over. Feel how this empowers yourself and your body.

3. Videogames once per month max. (not a problem for me since i don't play)
4. Stopping to constantly check emails, stats, browsing forums (very hard!)
5. No Junk TV (reality TV etc)
6. No CONSTANT music
7. No binging on comfort food
Instead, replace snacks with something more bland like rice crackers and try to restore your appreciation for flavour. Drink Water.
8. No binging on physical comfort (= sitting around all day)
Instead, excercise daily, or at least take one long walk, preferrably through nature.
9. Incorporate the right food into your diet. This includes testosterone building food for men (jamie?) and mood altering supplements to help with depression and anxiety such as cacao beans.
10. Stop compulsory and negative thought patterns
Meditation is one way to do it.

Did i miss something ?

edit: yep, missed meditation, sorry

 

[Jin]

focusing on work does help

 

[Khronos]

8. Use meditation to learn how to focus and redirect attention when confronted with a sexual stimulus (and unless you're a monk living in a monastery, there will usually be one somewhere).

I agree wholeheartedly. I'd add that regular meditation also allows your deepest intuitions to predominate more in your daily life, so that you may end up living more healthily without forceful effort.

For me personally, I've found yoga to be incredibly holistic and healing. Especially with regards to sexual dysfunction and diet. Many problems seem to just fade gently away with regular yoga practice.

 

[imPsimon]

I used to be more or less a porn addict as probably a lot of people are.

Spending hours masturbating can make me feel like I have wasted my time(life) and it can
also bring out a feeling of loneliness(feeling like a loser) since I'm not that good at meeting people.
It's like a loneliness enhancer.
I get grumpy and annoyed with people at work from "self abusing" to much. Pretty much the same effect as
caffeine intake makes.
Limiting masturbation to maybe twice (or less) a week does not make me depressed and makes me
feel more energized in daily life.

Watching weirdass porn (you know you have seen it all to:grin: ) has not given me any kind of erectile
dysfunction when meeting women or made me into a gagfucking-bondageGimp. I'm very nurturing and caring.

It's true that thoughts alone does not turn one on as much when watching porn but abstinence for
some weeks/months have at least changed that for me before.
I dont practice that anymore though since I kinda like porn in small doses.


[youtube]

 

[universecannon]

Obli, all that might make you feel a bit better, or it might not...but sex is incredibly healing and i suggest you just put on your blue swade shoes and go for it. All these thoughts and anxieties will melt away and I think you'll feel 100% better about all of this after you just do it

I really think the idea that porn is an addiction that leads to errectile disfunction is one lacking evidence.

Why? Its not that it happens overnight, we're talking years and years here. While the formal research hasn't been conducted yet, AFAIK, the mechanisms outlined in the video and elsewhere are very sound and there is literally thousands of people out there who claim it led to ED, and that shaking off their porn addiction worked wonders for they're state of mind and ED was never a problem again

 

[Mickey_Mouse_33]

No Fap 2013, in for the gains.

 

[emptymind]

I really think the idea that porn is an addiction that leads to errectile disfunction is one lacking evidence.

Sure it might desensitize people to some degree but there is far moer evidence for men being basically deficient is testosterone in our culture from other factors..like dietary, lifestyle etc. There has been some sort of negative agenda out to get testosterone for some time but really it is part of what makes us men..and plays a key role is sex drive drive etc.

The problem is probly complex and rooted in multiple places.

Maybe have a look at some of the forums dedicated to the subject, and the thousands of guys who have had it, have gone through the process of 'rebooting' as described on yourbrainonporn.com, and have had their ed cured. It has nothing to do with low testosterone.

The problem is internet porn, and specifically the way guys look at internet porn-viewing clips for 20 seconds, then going to the next, then the next, while having 10 tabs open all with different things. Each time you look at a new clip, you get a new rush, and nueral networks are built in your brain connecting that novelty and arousal. That will never happen in real life. You dont hook up with one girl for 30 seconds, then a new one 30 seconds later and so on, but constantly looking at porn that way wires your brain to that.

Myself, I found these videos a few months ago, and after realizing I look at porn way too much, I am abstaining from porn and orgasm for 100 days. I have no plans to ever go back to looking at porn, but after the 100 days will go back to occasional orgasms through sex. Im on day 40. It was rough at first, and I went through probably 6 weeks of making a couple of days then going back, which is what showed my that I was really addicted. I finally got my stuff together and am now making real progess, and I feel great.

 

[Jin]

specifically the way guys look at internet porn-viewing clips for 20 seconds, then going to the next, then the next, while having 10 tabs open all with different things. Each time you look at a new clip, you get a new rush, and nueral networks are built in your brain connecting that novelty and arousal. That will never happen in real life. You dont hook up with one girl for 30 seconds, then a new one 30 seconds later and so on, but constantly looking at porn that way wires your brain to that.

and what are the current implications of this behaviour except for erectile dysfuncion , since many can hold erectile dysfunction in high esteem :lol: , specially people who want to practice celebacy , i too believe ED can be helpful if so desired , maybe its just me:surprised

 

[obliguhl]

Obli, all that might make you feel a bit better, or it might not...but sex is incredibly healing and i suggest you just put on your blue swade shoes and go for it. All these thoughts and anxieties will melt away and I think you'll feel 100% better about all of this after you just do it

I've seen what it does to people and i encourage everyone who can to do it! Really seems to be quite something and good for your health. I'm not saying that sex should be avoided, just addiction to Sex!

That will never happen in real life. You dont hook up with one girl for 30 seconds, then a new one 30 seconds later and so on, but constantly looking at porn that way wires your brain to that.

Unfortunatly, there is something similiar in real life, if you are living in a big city. At least in summer, you just have to take a train downtown to see tons of sexy clothed girls and IT IS similiar to browsing for porn, just not as intense....but i'm not even too sure about that! It's best to keep your eyes straight ahead, without looking at girls passing you by. This also has a neat sideeffect of appearing more confident.

 

[emptymind]

Obli, all that might make you feel a bit better, or it might not...but sex is incredibly healing and i suggest you just put on your blue swade shoes and go for it. All these thoughts and anxieties will melt away and I think you'll feel 100% better about all of this after you just do it

I've seen what it does to people and i encourage everyone who can to do it! Really seems to be quite something and good for your health. I'm not saying that sex should be avoided, just addiction to Sex!

That will never happen in real life. You dont hook up with one girl for 30 seconds, then a new one 30 seconds later and so on, but constantly looking at porn that way wires your brain to that.

Unfortunatly, there is something similiar in real life, if you are living in a big city. At least in summer, you just have to take a train downtown to see tons of sexy clothed girls and IT IS similiar to browsing for porn, just not as intense....but i'm not even too sure about that! It's best to keep your eyes straight ahead, without looking at girls passing you by. This also has a neat sideeffect of appearing more confident.

Yes that can be similar, but generally in that situation you arent going to be masturbating while looking at girls on the street. Thats the point. When you masturbate to that, your brain becomes wired to connect arousal and orgasm with 'novelty.' Additionally, you probably arent going to be doing that everyday for years on end.

 

[emptymind]

specifically the way guys look at internet porn-viewing clips for 20 seconds, then going to the next, then the next, while having 10 tabs open all with different things. Each time you look at a new clip, you get a new rush, and nueral networks are built in your brain connecting that novelty and arousal. That will never happen in real life. You dont hook up with one girl for 30 seconds, then a new one 30 seconds later and so on, but constantly looking at porn that way wires your brain to that.

and what are the current implications of this behaviour except for erectile dysfuncion , since many can hold erectile dysfunction in high esteem :lol: , specially people who want to practice celebacy , i too believe ED can be helpful if so desired , maybe its just me:surprised

Why would you want ed? If you want to be celibate, wouldnt you want to refrain from masturbation as well? To each their own, but I certainly dont think that being addicted to masturbation and internet porn is going to benefit you in any way if you are trying to be celibate for spiritual or self growth purposes.

As for me, since stopping, I feel better, I have more energy, I feel more confident, I have been getting to much deeper levels in meditation much quicker etc. Plus, Im not wasting time everyday looking at porn.

 

[John Smith]

I had some ideas that I wanted to bring up just can't commit to this topic yet. Glad this video got some attention though. I think key point is that most of the posting members are somewhat more mature so this effect hasn't hit them full force. I personally never seen a porno until my early twenties while the speaker suggests that many young kids these days start seeking pornography around age 10. Imagine being exposed to hardcore porn at age 10 while your brain hasn't developed yet and neural circuits are wiring much more so than in your twenties. Imagine what it's like for that kid when he hits 20.

Also I personally find that only first few days, maybe 5 maximum, are really a challenge. If I last through this critical period I can easily push it for a month or longer. Arousal thoughts just don't arise - there is no struggle. Especially if you mix in ayahuasca/dmt there, it really kinda empowers me in terms of self-control and kills the need for indulging/self-destructive behaviour. Probably not same for everyone though.

 

[Ryusaki]

It could also work in your favor. I had an arousal disfunction because of too much porn. Then i met a woman, and we had sex.

For full 3-4 hours nonstop, then we both gave up without reaching orgasm.
Next time, same story. It ended with me unable to walk for a day because of pain in my testicles.
Still, would do again.