Attempt at growing syrian rue

[titus]

The only seedling to survive out of a combined 100 that I tried growing over the winter. Don't do this. The ones I'm growing now in the early summer are doing a lot better, and all that have sprouted are looking like they'll survive.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

Can you take a wider view of your seedlings? From what I can see it looks fine. However, one out of a hundred is a serious loss and should be avoided altogether!

Also, what are you using for indoor lighting? Which soils did you use?

 

[kerelsk]

Seconded, what soil are you using?

I tried growing some this year and I think I messed up the soil twice. First I tried very light peat and compost based soil, but that seemed to retain moisture too well.
Next I tried a mix with a greater amount of half-composted leaf litter, which had better drainage but I think the chemistry is wrong. I transplanted one from the old to new soil mix and it didn't really take off very well.

I think the plants are still surviving. They're dormant for the winter, which is one huge advantage for rue, it can tolerate some serious cold.

Next time I think I'll use a mix with more sand and topsoil from my yard, which should be much more mineral-based.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

Seconded, what soil are you using?

I tried growing some this year and I think I messed up the soil twice. First I tried very light peat and compost based soil, but that seemed to retain moisture too well.
Next I tried a mix with a greater amount of half-composted leaf litter, which had better drainage but I think the chemistry is wrong. I transplanted one from the old to new soil mix and it didn't really take off very well.

I think the plants are still surviving. They're dormant for the winter, which is one huge advantage for rue, it can tolerate some serious cold.

Next time I think I'll use a mix with more sand and topsoil from my yard, which should be much more mineral-based.

I also second dry sand. Rue needs it dry and requires very good drainage to thrive, and light peat moss should be fine, just steer clear of any heavy, moist compost soil, which can over-saturate the root system.

 

[titus]

Lighting:
During the middle of winter, I kept the seedlings under just a desk lamp, and I don't really think this was of much help. They probably would've done just as well under my window. At the moment, it's summer, so I'm keeping them next to my window and they're doing quite well. I've tried putting them outside into direct sun a few times but the younger seedlings don't seem to like it much (yellowing and wilting) so for the moment I'll keep them inside.

Soil:
For soil I used mostly sand (about 90%) and the rest was a cactus mix. The cactus mix wasn't a good idea, mostly just because there are too many large chunks of rock and bark and such. Since, I've been using 90% sand and 10% coco coir, and this seems to work just fine. Overall, use lots of sand, they seem to like it.

Climate:
Where I live in south-eastern Australia, winters are pretty wet but not that cold (day temps 10-20c, night temps 0-10c). The humidity is really not good for the rue, but if they aren't watered and kept inside I'm sure a mature plant would do fine. They just shouldn't be started in this weather. They seem to be able to stay dormant for a while without much light and no water.

Also, here's the pot I kept the seedling in. There were originally 4 seedlings transplanted into this pot, but the others had root breakages and died pretty soon after. Something I've noticed particularly with rue is that some seeds stay dormant for a long time, and sprout randomly a few months after planting. I must've reused sand that I was trying to grow rue in, because I keep getting rue popping up (the two smaller seedlings are ones that came up unexpectedly)

 

[titus]

I should also mention that I water my rue fairly regularly now (light watering every second day or so). Since the soil is basically free-draining, they don't seem to mind this too much, especially when it gets hot.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks for this, notes have been taken for my repeat attempt next (boreal) spring after 100% losses last spring/summer.

 

[Elrik]

If at all possible, don't grow them in pots. They'll sprout and grow for a while, I've sprouted and grown to over 5 cm on pure perlite, but I've never seen anyone [myself included] truly succeed in pots.
After college I planted the seed directly into quite poor garden soil in a good size row where they get lots of light but I can protect them from getting drenched in the winter. They produced nothing for two years, produced very little the third year, and soon stabilized to producing around 3/4 of a kilo per year for four years in a row now. I am happily self sufficient by growing them in the ground
When growing them in the ground be wary of advice that they 'don't like water' or 'need dry soil'. The seedlings will die without water, they need to be watered well for the first years.
Each year they die back to the crown and don't show much growth again until late spring, this is normal.
Mine are grown far from their native lands but the seed still yields 5% harmala hydrochlorides with harmaline constituting 50-60% of the harmalas.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks for the tips, Elrik! Now I know where there's a spot in my garden they might like. I'll keep chucking seeds there until one of them likes it there

What time of year did you sow your seeds?

 

[Elrik]

Its best to plant them in spring after all danger of frost has passed. They need as much time as you can give them for their first years growth, as they grow very slowly until they establish a deep root system.
If, after 2-3 years, you need to transplant a group of them out into individual spots dig deeply around them to get as much root as you can and, after planting, keep them watered very well for the first week and slowly reduce watering after that. I also provided shade for the first days. If they wilt after transplant increase both watering and shade. The individuals in my row are spaced 60 cm apart and they grow shoulder-to-shoulder without being crowded by the time I harvest the pods.
It is not a domesticated species. Some plants have larger pods, some smaller. Some plants open their pods at maturity, some don't. If you grab a brown pod and it feels 'crunchy' it is probably ripe. If you have the time and patience the 'cleanest' way to harvest is to firmly grab a ripe pod between your thumb and index finger to detach it and then, while squeezing, roll it a centimeter along your forefinger over a bucket to turn it into seeds and fluff. Repeat this ten thousand times and you'll have a kilogram! :lol:

 

[ijahdan]

Any chance of growing them in Southern UK do you think? Probably too wet I reckon, but my acacia acuminata have done ok outdoors, about 2 feet high after 3 years...

 

[Lemon Flip]

I've got a few month old indoor-grown seedling. He is growing in a highly salty alkaline clay soil (Bonneville lake bottom, ouch) I have 3 the seem to just be germinating in a 60/40 sand/garden soil mix, they've just sent out their first little orange-tipped roots into the mixture. It really seems that they like it hot, the warmer it is, the faster they seem to grow. I have been keeping the soils moist when germinating but once they've put out leaves I lightly mist them once/twice daily just to keep the very surface damp. Occasionally I'll give them a bit extra soaking and wait until the soil begins to dry, paying attention to their leaves- once they wilt veryyyyy slightly I will go back to my regular watering regime. They seem to grow with a new appreciation for life after that lol

 

[Cognitive Heart]

I've got a few month old indoor-grown seedling. He is growing in a highly salty alkaline clay soil (Bonneville lake bottom, ouch) I have 3 the seem to just be germinating in a 60/40 sand/garden soil mix, they've just sent out their first little orange-tipped roots into the mixture. It really seems that they like it hot, the warmer it is, the faster they seem to grow. I have been keeping the soils moist when germinating but once they've put out leaves I lightly mist them once/twice daily just to keep the very surface damp. Occasionally I'll give them a bit extra soaking and wait until the soil begins to dry, paying attention to their leaves- once they wilt veryyyyy slightly I will go back to my regular watering regime. They seem to grow with a new appreciation for life after that lol

Interesting! I agree that a warm or hot setting increases rue's ability to germ successfully, as well as sandy garden soils. The ones I have indoors right now germinated outside last year in July - full sun, and then I moved the successful vegetated ones inside. Watered and slightly topped only when necessary outside and transplanted once the roots stuck out the bottom of the pots. I agree with your watering routine indoors, too, as I find it similar to my schedule. Allowing the soil to dry is critical.. and not over-misting or over-watering, either, and always making sure to collect any run-off, as rue does well in good drainage.

I don't see much issue of adding extra heat.. however, rue can take too much sun easily outside, though.. especially as babies, so watch your heat output and exposure. I remember moving my germinating trays in the shade for about 30-45min every other day when in full sun, just for some recovery time.. and moved them back afterwards. Now, I'm trying to germinate indoors!

Also, in terms of leaf wilting, do you prune most of that off?? I've noticed that Syrian rue develops much healthier and stronger growth from doing so.. only when necessary, of course. I tend to leave the foliage that is drying at the tip alone, and remove any dying foliage immediately.

Happy growing! :thumb_up:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks for all the tips and experience shared. Now I'm starting to understand how I killed my seedlings .

 

[Jagube]

my acacia acuminata have done ok outdoors, about 2 feet high after 3 years...

Are you growing the narrow leaf variety? I believe I've read they're more desirable (more DMT and cleaner), but like dry and hot climates.

 

[Lemon Flip]

Also, in terms of leaf wilting, do you prune most of that off?? I've noticed that Syrian rue develops much healthier and stronger growth from doing so.. only when necessary, of course. I tend to leave the foliage that is drying at the tip alone, and remove any dying foliage immediately.

I actually haven't been, but I am going to start now. I did it one time but I didn't pay attention to anything, now that you say that they seem to appreciate it (when necessary) I am remembering that mine did respond positively to it. -The leaf was a bottom leaf with nearly no chlorophyll visible and had began shriveling. Clipping should save them the energy of dehiccing that leaf, it seems to be a good idea to allow the plant to retrieve as much of its energy from the leaf as it can; removing the leaf when it begins to cost the plant energy to cut it off so it doesn't invite infection.:thumb_up:

 

[Jagube]

My potted plant in the shed, which died back for the winter, is now resprouting. It developed these yellow buds over the winter, and they have now turned green.

The stem is already woody at the base, so hopefully in a couple of months it can go in the ground.

 

[titus]

I sowed some more rue around a month ago. I used around 50% sand, 25% coco coir and 25% perlite. The seedlings aren't doing particularly well, with most showing yellowing and some even turning pink. While this could be because of the weather becoming a bit colder and wetter due to it being the end of summer, I'm pretty sure its because I didn't use enough sand in the soil mix. When I tried growing these in winter using a 90% sand mix, I noticed no yellowing in the early stages (first 1-2 sets of true leaves), only slow growth, which leads me to believe that rue really doesn't like constant moisture. Another possibility is that these are getting too much sun, as they are in full sun from sunrise to around 1-2pm, although I've had other rue plants handle worse (the plant on the right in the pot started as a seedling in full sun, all day during midsummer, and ended up quite healthy). Has anyone else found problems starting rue in somewhat moisture-retaining soil?

 

[Cognitive Heart]

I sowed some more rue around a month ago. I used around 50% sand, 25% coco coir and 25% perlite. The seedlings aren't doing particularly well, with most showing yellowing and some even turning pink. While this could be because of the weather becoming a bit colder and wetter due to it being the end of summer, I'm pretty sure its because I didn't use enough sand in the soil mix. When I tried growing these in winter using a 90% sand mix, I noticed no yellowing in the early stages (first 1-2 sets of true leaves), only slow growth, which leads me to believe that rue really doesn't like constant moisture. Another possibility is that these are getting too much sun, as they are in full sun from sunrise to around 1-2pm, although I've had other rue plants handle worse (the plant on the right in the pot started as a seedling in full sun, all day during midsummer, and ended up quite healthy). Has anyone else found problems starting rue in somewhat moisture-retaining soil?

Agreed! And congrats on your progress.

I find too much moisture can hinder the growth of rue, as well. Its good now that you have some seedlings to work with. Tend to them very carefully until they start vegetating. I transfered one vegetated specimen into a round pot and it took off within weeks, with many branching leaves and stems. The other two I moved into pots have been growing slower but still healthy, overall.

It might not be bad idea to add a small amount of fresh dry sand and perlite around the base of those seedlings, and maybe do that over the course of a few days, no watering, then give it a light spray of warm mineral water after that until they start to green up because they do look stressed but not too bad. :thumb_up:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

until they start vegetating

The exact meaning here is unclear to me. Does this refer to the point where they get past the first pair of leaves and stop looking like a newly sprouted seedling? Or is it a bit further on than that?