Aversion to Internal Work

[DisEmboDied]

Cazman, you have really open my eyes, psychotherapy is no different than psychedelics or a float tank because it is using an external source to go within, I suppose meditation would be the only tool that would not rely on an external source. But what you have said completely makes me realize my contradiction. I have been anti psychotherapy for a while now, but now I can no longer be. I guess I just thought that entheogens is what's all you needed instead of relying on another person.


Jees, you have also blown my mind by illuminating that some methods work for some while other methods work for others. I guess I just always assumed that people would have a spiritual experience with psychedelics or float tanks or whatnot, but maybe meditation or any one of the other thousand ways may work for them instead. No different than different taste in food or music. I guess this is one of the reasons to not try to push psychedelics onto the world.

Both of those illuminations have really changed my mind and have shown me other ways. I do think this is a very important topic for me, and something that I would really need to think about or try to know about before starting a sensory deprivation tank center.

 

[spacexplorer]

Internal work is all where it's at Being a divinely anointed bringer of light, I find it necessary to remind my fallen brethren that we must always look within to see where our own problems are hiding. The external is merely a reflection.

 

[Cazman043]

Internal work is all where it's at Being a divinely anointed bringer of light, I find it necessary to remind my fallen brethren that we must always look within to see where our own problems are hiding. The external is merely a reflection.

Is it not always Internal work we are doing, its just a matter of what degree we're conscious of the journey we're being taken on, the journey of the Heart?

 

[Jees]

...I guess I just always assumed that people would have a spiritual experience with psychedelics...

I'm still biased to think that this is true. But sometimes (like with my partner) there is a barrier of sorts. Overlooking, underestimating or trying to jump over that barrier works potentially awkward. The paradox is that a very effective key to melt that barrier is entheogens itself, so there is an odd stalemate. Like a locked door and the key lies behind that locked door.

The barrier itself looks IMHO like a hardened/solidified perception. We know that nothing beats entheogens in offering perception flexibility. So a sudden "dive" could help by large but is still a bit of a gamble.

More important: I think whatever take-on is followed, there must be some "click" between the 'healer' and the 'patient' [sorry for this hard wording]. And that this tuning between the two is more important than the techniques used. One can't force this tuning (an intuitive trust?) to happen. If it's not obviously there, then a change of take-on (entheogens, float tank, meditation, color therapy,...) is not really a miracle solution IME.

We could re-define a good healer shaman as someone who has the ability to gain spontaneously the intuitive trust with ease, not by psy-tricks, but by genuine gentle radiant love and compassion, those can do deep work, melting barriers with his (her) presence only.
2 cents

 

[spacexplorer]

Internal work is all where it's at Being a divinely anointed bringer of light, I find it necessary to remind my fallen brethren that we must always look within to see where our own problems are hiding. The external is merely a reflection.

Is it not always Internal work we are doing, its just a matter of what degree we're conscious of the journey we're being taken on, the journey of the Heart?

indeed 8)

 

[Mindlusion]

The real question, is why do some people ask the fundamental question...Why?..and why do other people not?

Very well put Jamie. That I cannot wrap my head around. For some it just takes a long time, like on their deathbed.

Internal work is hard, it takes enormous courage, takes a lifetime, and is never fully completed. Soon as you think you've got it down pat, you've got it all wrong. Perhaps many just think, why bother? Which leads back to Jamies quesetion...

I have an aversion to internal work, who doesn't? My ego doesn't like to lose, or be wrong hehe.
I can't say that I would have been any different. Had I not been desperate enough, had I not been willing to try anything, and it was the last thing I turned too.... imagine that.. I wouldn't have been willing or had the courage either, even just to begin. It was too painful, to admit everything I thought I knew was wrong. It was too painful to admit I was self-centered, because I was so self-centered that it was painful. hehe, quite the vicious circle.
I had to know, that there was more than this.. that there was more to life than me.. I wanted to know, but I wasn't willing to hear the answer.

I had no idea what it could do. I had no idea that it had transformative liberating power.

Yet, even today, I still have some of that aversion. Perhaps if we didn't take ourselves so seriously, we would be more willing

 

[hug46]

The phrase "internal work" appears to me to be a subjective one. Is it self analysis while in a naked psychological state? Communing with the spirit? If someone could give a definition (or two) of what internal work actually is i would be able to give my opinion.

 

[Jees]

As I'm told, the Taoists were pioneers investigating FTW-is-all-this?

They found investigating the external world is a handful, and concluded that all secrets are not locally dependent. So they could (as believed) investigate the whole cosmos by looking what you have at hand: yourself. Hence the phrase outer world reflected in inner world.

While this looks a tad abstract and nothing much in common with dealing personal issues, they did cover that bridge. That energy (chi) lies on the base of it all, and it's just a matter how it is deployed, be it a rock or an emotion. That both these are transformable (without loss of energy as a given) and they pursued the art of that act starting with the mere addressable yourself.

By this definition 'internal work' does not actually exist as in 'isolated from external' because both are intertwined via the Chi, but 'internal work' can be used as a place where to start your practice. The relief is that it's not all extreme personal but for how you stroke your paint (chi) on the canvas of life. Awareness leads to responsibility leads to creation.

 

[hug46]

Hey Jees thanks for your definition. I will admit that i had to read it a few times in order to digest your words (which is totally down to my ignorance of classical spiritual practices and i will probably make a dogs dinner of my response due to said ignorance).

If the base of it all is the deployment of energy then surely everyone does internal work. Whether it be taking the dog for a walk, listening to a favourite piece of music, taking drugs or purposefully deploying their chi through meditation or other means.

I would say that some people are more analytical than others and therefore more inclined to look within. Some others feel that they are less in need of internal work and i think that it is folly to decide who does, or does not, need to do internal work.

My view of internal work is the analysis of certain difficult feelings that have cropped up over my life, deciding how to interpret them, learning to live with them and move on to be a happier person. For those that do not want to engage in difficult self analysis ,one has to respect their choices (even though it might be bad for the flotation tank business).

@DisEmboDied Do you have knowledge of certain peoples historical issues prior to dosing them? You seem to be dosing a lot of people and then appear to be dissappointeed when they dont have similar experiences to you. Be careful not to become some kind of entheogenic fundamentalist.

 

[Jees]

Yes whatever we do, we do the 'work' (without referring to internal/external). For the sake of semantics we could reserve 'internal work' for the deliberate investigation.

Then the 'internal work' addresses that particular part of energy that makes up of how we perceive the 'whatever we do'. This is just definitions though.

It's a true blessing to come to the stage where difficulties in life lead eventually to the self-study. As you say nobody can forcing decide for another, yet giving gentle hints can work like seeping water toward the seed at the core that contingently awaits for a drop.

I love this analogy: one can plant seeds, give water, let sprout, but it doesn't serve to pull on the plant to satisfy a fast eye candy.


I guess there will always be people in need of a float tank or Disembodied works. Focusing on that instead of the 'aversion' cases ( <-- drop them some hints will do fine enough) might save the tune of the day.

 

[zhoro]

This world is a labyrinth of ingenious design, in which Ariadne's thread is the inability of the pursuit of worldly desires to bring lasting happiness. That keeps one moving through different experiences until desire for the permanent matures. When that desire meets its fruition, the exit is found to have always been not even a step away.