Aya for a 1st-timer

[WalkingSpirit]

Hello,

I'm a bit of a veteran around here but haven't been to the nexus in a long while. I'm currently in the process of obtaining materials and was thinking of doing an aya brew instead of the usual procedure a.k.a. crystallization and pharma. I've done enough of that and am very curious about aya. However, I have many questions. I read through the "All About Aya" thread, but still have questions. As to not get lost in the thread, I thought making my own questions thread would get me the best collective knowledge for my specific ventures.

I've noticed that the rules have become a bit uptight, so I'm not sure if I can mention the materials discussed in the aya thread. Is just saying mimosa okay? If not, please change it to "materials" and you'll know what I'm talking about. Please don't delete this thread.

Anyways, on to my brew.

I am getting 500g of material, but am not sure how much I need for a good brew, nor do I know how much to cook and consume. It was easy with pharma after awhile; I measured an amount of crystals using a scientific formula I designed based on weight and biological makeup. I'd weigh the amount of crystal, mix it with a 1:0.9 ratio of peganum harmala, and I could find a sweet spot for just about anyone. But an Aya brew, seems no more than 3g would be necessary? That's crazy, how can so much active chemical be in such a small amount for an aya journey?

Is caapi or some maoi a necessary ingredient? I thought one should brew caapi with or separate of the material and then mixed the two near the end. Is this how it goes, and if so, what kind of ratio am I looking at?

Basically, my main questions are this:

How much of the material should I brew in grams for two people?

Do I need anything else besides the main ingredient? The "All About Aya" thread is a little unclear about this. It seems I should get some caapi. Again, a ratio would be nice.
If I do need other ingredients, are there any vendors in the U.S. that can deliver in 2 weeks or less?

What is a good recipe for a 1st-timer? I hear "brew" a lot but I was wondering if anyone has made a soup of it. For some reason I picture it as a soup, but a brew is fine too. Do I just use water?

How should I consume it? I usually do pharma on an empty stomach and drink an oj cocktail, all in one shot, to get it down.

Would I want to do multiple cups, like 1 cup to start, another half an hour-to-an hour later, etc?

How long can I expect it to last? I definitely need to plan ahead.

Those are my main questions. I am a very spiritual person and have been experimenting with this for several years. It's been quite some time since I went into hyperspace and I was thinking Aya would be a nice way to return. Any and all help is appreciated. Before I read the "All About Aya" thread, a friend and I were just going to boil all 500g like a gigantic tea and drink half each. But now I'm thinking some direction would be a good idea.

 

[brokenChild]

1. Talk about specific materials, as far as I know, is allowed... source talk is not. The thing is, as far as I know the plant materials are legal to possess (at least in the US) in all the various forms, the grey area comes in with extraction of DMT, which technically speaking is an illegal and scheduled drug (tho this notion has been overturned in some cases by the US Supreme Court in favor of religious practices, i.e. RFRA, Religious Freedom Restoration Act, but this doesn't mean that the govt still wouldn't screw u if given the chance and reason to)

2. The amount of brew needed per person will vary, some people are more sensitive than others. I've done tons of drugs for the last 10 years out of necessity for self-medicating, and personally require a heavier dosage than most simply because I'm adapted to all kinds of intoxicants... generally speaking tho, about 100g caapi is plenty for a first run. The DMT ratio again would be specific to the individual, you need both; the MAO inhibition, and the DMT for the fullest effect. If you overdo on the DMT, then your experience will be more chaotic and decoherent, and less healing. If you get it just right tho, it will work all kinds of magic in your life. So start low and work ur way up, and listen to your body, and tell this "2nd person" to do the same.

3. As far as making it, I get whole vine, soak it in water (purified or filtered, preferrebly not tap) overnight, then shred it with garden shears, and boil it straight (just by itself is fine, can add 1tbs of vinegar to the boil for acidity for optimal extraction) all the way through for 9 hours. Some like to do 3 seperate 3hr boils, but I find that's too much water to reduce down to my preference, I've tried both, and like the 9hr boil better. Also I'm thinking of doing a cold soak soon, I have a feeling it may be a better method for extracting, or at least more pure, but not sure on that. Stick to boiling for ur first try, since I can't confirm for certainty that cold-soak is more effective.

4. I boil caapi separate, and reduce it down to drinking amount after I filter the plant material at the end (thru a t-shirt and a strainer) then reduce the leftover liquid to about 100-200mL.

Then I brew the leaves (for me I like chaliponga, but it's very potent, for first time maybe start with p.viridis, aka chacruna, it's much more forgiving and more flexible on the dosing) of course there's other forms of DMT that I'm simply not experienced with, my only experience is with leaves... so whichever form you choose, make sure you dose carefully. But the basic point is I take the caapi brew, wait about half an hour to 45 mins till I feel the MAO inhibition (it will be clear, a bit of a "drunk" feeling, obvious change from normal) and then I drink the DMT stuff. Works for me

5. The duration of effect will be dependent on your relative dosage, a good full blast for me lasts about 8 hours from beginning to end, I've also had 4-hour sessions with lower doses... so it's all relative. Make sure you don't over-dose, otherwise would not be as healing as it possibly can be.

6. Also this link may help; How I create an Ayahuasca experience that is amazing for me :) - Ayahuasca - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

7. Best of luck brother, welcome to the Nexus

 

[brokenChild]

Just a quick addition, I've found that 1 boil for leaves is perfectly fine if going that route (some like to do the same 3 boils for leaves as well, I find this unnecessary, within one 45 min boil I get all the extraction from leaves I need, then reduce and drink, same concept as making tea)

 

[WalkingSpirit]

Thanks for the reply(ies).

I believe I'll be studying the threads on here a lot more before I get into any recipes or starting the brew. My main focus now is getting the right ingredients. So I should check some of the vendors on here for caapi?

Also a little lost since DMT is mentioned but not the material. If I get MHRB, do I just dump it into a pot and boil? The amount of DMT in it is very low, so this is why I worry about how much to use. Would it work the same if I use crystals and then mix it with the caapi brew? Or would it be totally different and I should just go the pharma way if I'm going to make crystals?

Sorry again but I've never made Aya and I really want this to be special for me and my friend. So I wanna get everything right.

 

[brokenChild]

sorry I don't have much experience with crystals, as I've only done the traditional aya drinks, but from what I could tell the crystals would work the same if you were to chase them with orange juice or something along those lines (again just parroting what I saw on a thread or two, unsure of that whole process) just be very careful with the dosage, I'm not entirely sure how the smoked amount of DMT dosage would correlate to the orally administered amount necessary for the aya experience, maybe some of the other guys can better answer this question.

I just use chaliponga for my dmt source, boil and reduce just like the caapi; it's potent enough to where it doesn't take much for me (usually around 10-15 grams for me is plenty, but some people are perfectly fine with just 5 grams of the leaf, so it's all individual, if going that route I would urge you to make more than needed and then drink your way slowly to find your personal sweet spot, then save the rest for another time; drinking too much will serve no benefit whatsoever and may actually lead to a more decoherent and disruptive experience so very important not to overdo)

Hope that helped a little

 

[WalkingSpirit]

Yeah I was thinking of boiling all 500g and then drinking as I go along my journey a cup at a time. Not a cup in measurement, just like a small glass like for tea.

I'll have to read some more unless someone can lend some insight about the caapi and the ratios etc.
Thanks.

 

[brokenChild]

Generally speaking, 100g caapi is a good starting dose, you have to understand everything depends on potency of organic material used (freshness), which shouldn't be a problem if you find the right vendor :want: As well as personal response to the mixture. Some people are more sensitive than others, so for a smaller female friend 75g may be a good starting dose (or maybe even 50g), some guys can handle 150g+ just fine, depending on their size, but again for a first time for the average male I'd recommend no more than 100g of caapi per dose

Also make sure EVERY precaution is taken not to mix this with counter-indicating medications, there's a whole list of prescription stuff on google that you simply don't want to take together since it may pose a very real and serious risk to overall health when combined with other medicines

 

[WalkingSpirit]

Thanks for the tips. I guess the last step is finding the ratio of caapi and mimosa. I might just do the 1:1 like I do with pharma and pray for the best.

 

[Creo]

I'd suggest no more than 5g mimosa for your first journey.

The dosages on this thread are a good guide:

The Essential DMT Guide - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Caapi: light 50g, moderate 100g, strong 150g
Mimosa: light 3-5g, moderate 5-7g, strong 7-10g

 

[WalkingSpirit]

That just doesn't make sense to me though. If I was extracting, 5g would give me next to nothing. How does boiling it change that? That's my main problem I'm facing cause I've never done this. Don't want to waste it, but I also only have a small time frame that I'm free to do this.

 

[Creo]

If I had to guess, I'd say the explanation is inefficient extractions. I assure you, 5g mimosa is more than enough. I've drank 8g mimosa, and it was overpoweringly strong.

 

[3rdI]

hello WalkingSpirit,

some say there is a big difference between brewed MHRB and extracted MHRB so this could account for the perceived discrepancy in the dose.

could I ask what your pharma dose is? that info could help others with recommendations, if your a real hardhead then you obviously need to be looking toward the higher end of the dosage scale.

 

[Creo]

A brew will contain extra alkaloids, so you might need a little more dmt in pharma.

But WalkingSpirit is considering a 1:1 ratio of caapi to mimosa. A good dose of caapi is 50g, but 50g of mimosa will fry your brain.

 

[3rdI]

yeah I know he was thinking along the insane dosage lines, but I think that finding out his pharma dose is quite important if were going to recommend a dose for him.

 

[WalkingSpirit]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the extra responses.

When I do pharma, I figured out a formula based on weight predominantly. You convert your weight from pounds to kilograms, and then take that amount in milligrams.

Example:

I am about 160lbs
That is 72 kg
So I take about 70mg of DMT with 60mg of peganum harmala

The above is my pharma sweet spot.

How to achieve something like this with aya, I have no clue. As noted, this is my first time so I'd like to do it right. At first, I was planning on extracting, but I'm trying to not do that as much anymore because I no longer live alone and it can cause "complications." So I thought a good aya brew would be my best bet. So what am I to do with 100+g of mimosa?

I'm not saying, yes let me drink all of it. Eating more than .1g of extracted DMT is its own level of "OMG am I going insane" and .1g of jim-jam is s special place in hell. My problem is figuring out how different boiling mimosa is to extracting the DMT from it. I'm pretty good at the extractions if I say so myself (no figures presented), and I almost always get a great yield from 80g of mimosa. So when you guys say all I need is 5g boiled, it racks my brain on how that is even possible.

By all means, enlighten a fellow brother

 

[3rdI]

You just have to work out the DMT content of the bark. If its 2% then 10g of bark is gonna be about 200mg of magic plus what ever other goodies are in there. If your normal dose is 70mg then 4-5g would be ample.

You could do the same with your vine.

Do you get knee deep crazyness from 60mg harmalas and 70mg DMT?

 

[WalkingSpirit]

Nope, I get to the threshold on 70:60. And isn't mimosa usually about 1%?

And what should I do with the rest? Lol is there a way to measure it once boiled? Like could I boil all 100+ and then measure the mL? Or is it too difficult once boiled?

Also, how would I go about it with a friend? Should I boil both dose and then split the extract?

 

[WalkingSpirit]

Should I try writing up my own recipe based on what I've read and you guys can give me some more critique?

 

[3rdI]

MHRB seems to be coming out at above 1% but its dependant on many factors.

I think getting to precise is a bit pointless, boil the whole lot, reduce the brew down to 1g of bark to 5ml of brew.

then drink some and if you don't get where you want to be, then drink some more.

any that is left you can freeze.

I don't think you need to write a recipe, just boil reduce and chug it down, if you are concerned about going to far then start conservatively.

but do let us know how it goes:thumb_up:

 

[WalkingSpirit]

OKay the reduce the brew bit is what I am really lost on. I've never done this, how does it work?

A few more questions after look at all about Aya again.

Is acidified water required? Anyone have experience with it and just using regular filtered water?
I do boil the materials right? Just don't have the heat too high?
How do I "reduce" the water? Just let it boil until the materials are exposed rather than topping off the pot with water as one would do during the cook?
Any tips for filtering with a cotton-t? I'm thinking of using a rubber band to keep it tight and not dip into the pot while pouring.
And again, how does this reduction thing work? I combine all three boils and just continue to boil it?
Also how many pots do I need? I read that caapi and mhrb should be cooked seperately. If each brew is filtered into it's own pots, that's a total of 8 pots or so. I have 6 @_@

I appreciate the responses.