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ayahuasca by myself?

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teotenakeltje

teotenakeltje

Rising Star
i'm very interested in taking ayahuasca for spiritual healing. But i'm not sure if i can do it alone.
i read this one interview from arno adelaars (co writer of 'ayahuasca') here:


he wouldn't recommend it because he's seen people getting pretty agressive from it (in the amazon he saw how they attached a berserking guy to a tree till the effects wore off) , even one guy that had to force himself not to kill his wife! so he thinks an experienced sitter is very wise.
When i would take it i would start with a caapi only brew to get familiar with the spirit.
So i would like to hear from people with experience what they say about it, alone or with sitter? And could i really do some healing work by myself?
 
I dont know if ayahuasca is significantly more dangerous in this aspect than any other psychedelic... Arno organizes ceremonies and of course he follows a certain line of thought in relation to these substances, while others may feel different..

In any case I do think its prudent to have a sitter nearby at least for first time one takes these substances, and if not, then in the very least start with very low doses and work the way up in subsequent sessions to slowly see how one reacts to this substance. Also the care of set and setting continues being very important
 
Ayahuasca doesn't evoke agression. Quite the opposite. There are many ways ayahuasca is prepared by south american tribes and there are many additives. If you just use caapi and a DMT plant, there is no risk of you losing control. Trust me on that.
Maybe there are some other plants that can completely take over the experience that can cause agression or loss of control. There is a whole array of admixture plants wich include tobacco and brugmansia and even plants containing ibogaine.

Ayahuasca with just DMT is one of the most friendly psychedelic experiences there is. With 5-MeO-DMT it becomes wilder.
Additives like ibogaine, tobacco or brugmansia, i have no experience with.
If you stay away from them, ayahuasca is completely safe. One of the safest ways to travel there is, even.
 
yeah that bit about aggression really puts you off, that would have to be my ultimate fear, and having a sitter, well if you get aggressive at all I don't think a sitter would necessarily help... yeah, polytrip must be right with the plants... violent outbursts?, surely not!
 
I ALWAYS recommend a sitter when using ANY substance for the 1st time.

Once you get to know it better, then do it by yourself, but not for the first few times!
 
teotenakeltje said:
When i would take it i would start with a caapi only brew to get familiar with the spirit.
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I've spent alot of time reading ayahuasca.com forums and the "caapi only" idea generally seemed to be a wise one.

ALSO, those silly hippies recommend you arrange some plants to watch over you. I felt this to be an excellent idea.

happy travels!
:d

A
 
Acolyte said:
teotenakeltje said:
When i would take it i would start with a caapi only brew to get familiar with the spirit.
Click to expand...
I've spent alot of time reading ayahuasca.com forums and the "caapi only" idea generally seemed to be a wise one.

ALSO, those silly hippies recommend you arrange some plants to watch over you. I felt this to be an excellent idea.

happy travels!
:d

A
Click to expand...

A Caapi only brew can be just as powerful (without the fireworks) as a full Ayahuasca brew. Caapi only CAN be very unpleasant, so be careful with your doses.

However, as for a sitter, I have never used one. I have found it to be unnecessary....however, I have read many a report where someone took a bit too much and found themselves in a very scary situation where they BELIEVE they are dying (they're not) and have to be talked down from calling 911.

The one report that a person DID call 911 was met with disaster. The normal course of action for a psycadelic OD is a large amount of benzo's. Benzo's and MAOI's (incl RIMA's) can be lethal (depressed breathing, massive hypotension) That person almost died, and of course the paramedics blamed the Ayahusaca, not their ignorance of drug interactions...so please, if you think you might call 911 please get on the phone with someone who is experienced with Ayahuasca so they can talk you down. I am unaware of any incident where Ayahusca alone killed someone, all deaths that involved Ayahusac ALSO invovled some other drug that is contraindicated for use with MAOIs (such as massive amounts of Jungle Tobacco (rustica) which has very high levels of nicotine, mixed in the brew).

Be careful, be safe, and have a phone # handy just in case.
 
When i started taking ayahuasca, i was just as intimidated as you are. I was also afraid to lose control and afraid that i might do strange things.

But i've learned that there is no reason to fear at all AND that those fears ruin much of the experience, or better, that it becomes even more wonderfull, more blissfull, more magical when you just don't worry.

Ayahuasca is realy totally safe if you don't have a medical problem and if you don't take medicines with it or other stuff that might cause negative reactions, like alcohol.

Ayahuasca brings you the opposite of agression. I can not even imagine how ayahuasca as i know it could make you agressive.

This story must come from agression caused by an admixture plant.

be open to it and i promise you, it will be more than rewarding. I can simply promise you that.
 
A caapi only brew is sometimes recommended as your first experience. Harmine and tetrahydroharmine are the main active alkaloids in caapi, and when taken together without DMT, they alone can cause visions, but they are dark, daydream-like, and not as vivid as those had when a DMT plant source is added. DMT greatly enhances the visual effects of harmine and harmaline, and also introduces “psychedelic” alterations to the thought processes. DMT makes the experience much more intense, and can also make the experience more frightening for a first time user, especially if the dose is high enough.

SWIM doesn’t use caapi anymore, he’s switched to using pure alkaloids (tetrahydroharmine, harmine, etc.). The main drawback to caapi is that it can cause nausea, quite a lot.

My recommendation for a first time experience is to use a weak brew made using chacruna (not the strong Hawaiian chacruna) and caapi and nothing else. Don’t use mimosa, and don’t use chaliponga.

Chacruna gives a much friendlier experience than either mimosa or chaliponga.

Chaliponga is often recommended for experienced users only.

Seriously, don’t use mimosa. There is no such thing as ayahuasca made with mimosa. The natives do not use mimosa for making ayahuasca. There must be a good reason they don’t use it in ayahuasca. Ayahuasca made with mimosa feels quite toxic to SWIM, and is probably not good for you. That’s probably why they don’t use it. Mimosa is better for extracting DMT than for using in ayahuasca. When SWIM uses mimosa in ayahuasca he feels tense, gets lots of stomach problems, and feels some unusual toxic effects that are hard to describe. It just doesn’t feel healthy to SWIM. SWIM has decided to never use ayahuasca made with mimosa. He thinks possibly liver damage or something worse may be the result of using mimosa in ayahuasca too often. There are no long term studies of users of mimosa based ayahuasca around to show that it’s safe. There are such studies for ayahuasca made with chacruna and chaliponga showing that long term use is safe.
 
ok guys, very informative...thanks! maybe i would choose for a sitter, it's just that i don't know anyone with experience. So the hawaiian vine is strong..is there a difference between the yellow and white vine? And is an aya session in some sort comparable to a high dosage mushroom trip?
 
Mimosa indeed has many unpleasant side-effects. But only when you've extracted mimosa with hot water.
When using a mimosa cold-water-infusion you don't have those toxic effects, but you need to use at least twice as much mimosa.
With a cold-water-infusion, you have a different kind of experience than with boiled mimosa, or chacruna.
I cannot say i like one more then the other.
Chacruna varies in potency, so you can have very weak chacruna sometimes.
 
teotenakeltje said:
ok guys, very informative...thanks! maybe i would choose for a sitter, it's just that i don't know anyone with experience. So the hawaiian vine is strong..is there a difference between the yellow and white vine? And is an aya session in some sort comparable to a high dosage mushroom trip?
Click to expand...
Yes, the psychedelic part is very much the same as a high dose of good shrooms. For instance cyanensis or azurescens shrooms. You can replace the DMT-plant for a high dose of shrooms, and you will have an experience that is almost indistinguishable from ayahuasca with DMT.

The main difference is that the caapi-vine adds a feeling to it that is pure bliss. It adds a lot of depth and meaning to it, but it is so amazing that you have to experience it to know what i mean.
 
I started with a vine-only brew. Was a good intro for me. Even smoked spice is not a proper preparation for a strong dmt+vine brew. Work up slowly, and if you can, find people to do it with if you are going to have a strong brew.

Ayahuasca is an amazing gift to humanity. Blessings on your journey!!
 
polytrip said:
Mimosa indeed has many unpleasant side-effects. But only when you've extracted mimosa with hot water.
When using a mimosa cold-water-infusion you don't have those toxic effects, but you need to use at least twice as much mimosa.
With a cold-water-infusion, you have a different kind of experience than with boiled mimosa, or chacruna.
I cannot say i like one more then the other.
Chacruna varies in potency, so you can have very weak chacruna sometimes.
Click to expand...


hey polytrip, when you say cold water mimosa, are you using it with some MAOI also or pure?
 
^ Very well said 69Ron.

Mimosa just has way to many other active chemicals in it besides DMT. It can produce extremely visual experiences when taken orally, but I have only heard a handful of people say they prefer it over Chacruna or Chaliponga. I have also heard others say that it feels toxic to them....so to me, when I hear corraborating reports of mimosa feeling toxic, I listen.

My only two experiences with Mimosa went horribly wrong (thankfully). My first try was with 10-15g rue (ooops!) and 20g mimosa (double Ooooops!)...thankfully I purged the mimosa before it could take effect. I was in misery from the od of rue all night and into the next day...for some weird reason I tried the same nasty process again, but I evaped everything down so I could get it into my stomach without retching and possibly loosing everything again, this time I used 5g rue and 10grams Mimosa, and again I purged it all up before it could be absorbed....and dealt with a strong Rue experience for most of the night. Not as bad as the first attempt, but it has pretty much kept me from ingesting rue seeds ever again. All of this was long before I joined Ayahuasca forums and the Nexus, so I was going off of Erowid reports (Tripple OOOOOPS!!!!)

As for the harmala alkaloid side of it, I prefer actual Caapi BECAUSE of the purge that comes with it. Many currandero's in S. America believe that the purge is very important as it cleanses the body and removes toxins....to me the purge is also very symbolic of removing negative energies from the body before entering Aya space.

Yes, the pure alkaloids will reduce and probably not provoke any purging, but to me, the reason for taking Aya is healing...and the purge is an important part of the healing process.
 
69ron said:
Seriously, don’t use mimosa. There is no such thing as ayahuasca made with mimosa. The natives do not use mimosa for making ayahuasca. There must be a good reason they don’t use it in ayahuasca. Ayahuasca made with mimosa feels quite toxic to SWIM, and is probably not good for you. That’s probably why they don’t use it. Mimosa is better for extracting DMT than for using in ayahuasca. When SWIM uses mimosa in ayahuasca he feels tense, gets lots of stomach problems, and feels some unusual toxic effects that are hard to describe. It just doesn’t feel healthy to SWIM. SWIM has decided to never use ayahuasca made with mimosa. He thinks possibly liver damage or something worse may be the result of using mimosa in ayahuasca too often. There are no long term studies of users of mimosa based ayahuasca around to show that it’s safe. There are such studies for ayahuasca made with chacruna and chaliponga showing that long term use is safe.
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I agree with nearly everything ron said except this part.. I do think mimosa may be a tougher experience but, first of all, the fact that the amazonian natives dont use mimosa as an admixture is simply a geographical one: Ayahuasca is from the wet amazon basin and mimosa is from the dry northeastern states of Dreamland.. The natives from the amazon couldnt have known about it (but the ones of the northeast did, and used, without caapi of course for the same reason)

Also, even though mimosa hasnt been studied in ayahuasca use (because it doesnt happen traditionaly), it does have its indigenous use and as far as I know there hasnt been any damage demonstrated in regular use. I know lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, but in any case I still dont personally think it is any dangerous or toxic at a reasonable constancy of experimentation. Nevertheless, like everything in life I believe in moderation so if someone is taking so much that it becomes toxic, then its waaaaay past the 'respectful, moderate' use these substances deserve, at least IMO.

But of course, more studies are always welcome so if anybody has some more information on regular oral mimosa health effects, it will be appreciated.. Who knows, maybe its even medicinal orally (it does have other external medicinal uses), maybe not, its still unknown AFAIK.

Each one should listen to themselves and decide about these kind of things with as much information as possible, always being reasonable, well informed, taking necessary precautions and cares of set and setting and so on

acolon_5 said:
As for the harmala alkaloid side of it, I prefer actual Caapi BECAUSE of the purge that comes with it. Many currandero's in S. America believe that the purge is very important as it cleanses the body and removes toxins....to me the purge is also very symbolic of removing negative energies from the body before entering Aya space.

Yes, the pure alkaloids will reduce and probably not provoke any purging, but to me, the reason for taking Aya is healing...and the purge is an important part of the healing process.
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I agree with you.. Even though I enjoy the purified harmala combinations, it doesnt substitute caapi for me. Both have their place guaranteed. I also see value in the ocasional full-range experience, with the cleansing the purging permits (also its possible that at least part of the medicinal properties of ayahuasca are caused by things other than the alkaloids)... :)
 
Endlessness, I think once you've had enough experience with ayahuasca made with chacruna and ayahuasca made with mimosa, you'll notice just how much more toxic a mimosa based ayahuasca feels, and you’re likely going to stop using it and switch to brews made with chacruna.

I think listening to the body is important. It doesn't feel healthy.

As for the natives who use mimosa, they don't use it with any MAOI, and their habit has not been extensively studied.

Most people use mimosa because it's cheaper, and when they are given real ayahuasca made with chacruna, most of them make the switch to it because it feels much healthier. That’s been SWIM’s experience with the people he knows.

Mimosa is cheap. People use it because it's cheap. Same with rue. People use rue because it’s cheap.

There are many shamans who have the internet now and know about how cheap mimosa is and have tried it. So your reasoning behind why they do not use mimosa in ayahuasca only applies to shamans living in the jungle. Other shamans who know about mimosa still do not use it in ayahuasca because their followers in general prefer ayahuasca made with chacruna. It feels better for the body and has a long history of safe use.

I’m willing to bet that long term use of ayahuasca made with mimosa will cause liver damage or some other health problems. It feels that toxic to SWIM.

Do the comparison. Take 10 trips with real ayahuasca made using chacruna, and then 10 trips with ayahuasca made with mimosa. If you don’t notice that the chacruna brew is much easier on the body, I’ll be really surprised.
 
69ron said:
Endlessness, I think once you've had enough experience with ayahuasca made with chacruna and ayahuasca made with mimosa, you'll notice just how much more toxic a mimosa based ayahuasca feels, and you’re likely going to stop using it and switch to brews made with chacruna.

I think listening to the body is important. It doesn't feel healthy.

As for the natives who use mimosa, they don't use it with any MAOI, and their habit has not been extensively studied.

Most people use mimosa because it's cheaper, and when they are given real ayahuasca made with chacruna, most of them make the switch to it because it feels much healthier. That’s been SWIM’s experience with the people he knows.

Mimosa is cheap. People use it because it's cheap. Same with rue. People use rue because it’s cheap.

There are many shamans who have the internet now and know about how cheap mimosa is and have tried it. So your reasoning behind why they do not use mimosa in ayahuasca only applies to shamans living in the jungle. Other shamans who know about mimosa still do not use it in ayahuasca because their followers in general prefer ayahuasca made with chacruna. It feels better for the body and has a long history of safe use.

I’m willing to bet that long term use of ayahuasca made with mimosa will cause liver damage or some other health problems. It feels that toxic to SWIM.

Do the comparison. Take 10 trips with real ayahuasca made using chacruna, and then 10 trips with ayahuasca made with mimosa. If you don’t notice that the chacruna brew is much easier on the body, I’ll be really surprised.
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But I think we're talking about two different things here.. I agree with you, I personally preffer real ayahuasca of caapi+chacruna than using mimosa and rue, but this doesnt necessarily have to mean that its toxic, and thats the point I disagree with.. Even if it feels toxic doesnt mean anything in an objective sense. I do completely agree that you have to respect your body and feelings but still thats far off from making the assumption it is toxic, just like saying 'it feels good' is far off from the assumption of saying 'it is good/healthy'.

The advantage of ayahuasca in this sense is, indeed, it was extensively studied, and hasnt shown negative, even otherwise, while mimosa doesnt seem to have been extensively studied.. but we just dont know if it IS toxic or not, this is just speculation.. Could even be the inverse, who knows..

Once again I have to say that I also personally preffer the real ayahuasca but I dont think that once or twice or a few moderate times of using mimosa is anything to worry about.. :)
 
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