Ayahuasca compared to other psychedelics

[acapuchinu]

I have recently started venturing into the realm of ayahuasca, or more accurately the mimosa Syrian rue analogue.

After hearing how DMT and psilocybin are very alike as a chemical structure I thought at first I would have pretty similar effects but in some aspects I have had even opposite effects.

I have yet to venture to far into hyperspace, all in due time. So far the most I have done was a solo 5g mimosa and 2.5g rue which gave me open eyed visual of beings walking around in front of me (I have very good quality and potent root bark), different lights being portals into other world's and much introspection. That was my first solo trip.

With shrooms each time I have done them.I dosed on an eighth of cubes.

My first trip on mushrooms was probably one of my strongest ones; I forgot how to speak for a few hours, I forgot who I was, at some point I was seeing through the eyes of my friends instead out of my own eyes(like literally as if I was sitting where they were). All very psychedelic and psychological effects. I compared it to being put in the shoes of a schitzophrenic for a short period of time. Of course in the best way possible as the trip was amazing.

So far all my ayahuasca trips have not had any effect like that.
They have extreme closed eyed visual, awe-some and amazing. Open eyed visuals are also pretty beautiful. The body high is pretty similar to mushrooms.
There was no comparison of the psychological effect to shrooms though. On the contrary, I felt like a superhuman, my speach became better, I understood things quicker and with more ease, I was able to explain things better and to the point. I was more in tune with everything especially my body and I felt that if I am aware of something in my body I can ultimately control it instead of it being just a natural bodily function.

For example, I felt I could learn to control my body temperature, the speed of my heart rate, if I was sick I felt like I could learn how to make my body cure itself.

One even more interesting thing is my eye sight noticeably got better. I wear glasses usually, a low number but glasses nonetheless. I was able to read things without my glasses that I am 100% sure I normally am not able to.

Are these effects common for DMT?
At higher doses does it become more psychological? On shrooms I completely lost myself and on ayahuasca sort of the oppsite.

I understand you are supposed to be reborn on high enough doses, swallowed by a snake or what not. Have many of you experienced this?

 

[PowerfulMedicine]

For example, I felt I could learn to control my body temperature, the speed of my heart rate, if I was sick I felt like I could learn how to make my body cure itself.

Theses things are almost certainly delusions. DMT is just as capable as psilocybe mushrooms at producing delusions. From a scientific standpoint, entities would also be a delusion.

I've only used psilocybe mushrooms once, so I don't have much experience to compare oral DMT to. But I would say that my one mushroom trip was relatively similar to my experience with DMT. The main difference is that mushrooms didn't have the initial chaos and discomfort of oral DMT, but there was a period of discomfort toward the end of the mushroom trip. And oral DMT doesn't make things as funny.

I would say that the mental effects were relatively similar in my single mushroom experience. Oral DMT might have been a little more clear headed, but i can't really comment on this. And the differences might just be a function of dose, seeing as how my one mushroom trip wasn't nearly as intense as most of oral DMT trips.

 

[acapuchinu]

I don't agree that the specific part you quoted was a delusion but more of a realization that its possible. There are accounts of people being able to control heart rate, body temperature and stuff like that.

Also positive thinking while being sick proves better effects than thinking you're going to die from a disease.

I guess what the realization was that at the moment I was very in tune and in sync with my body and I need to learn how to do it whilst I'm not tripping.

What doses did you take of shrooms and ayahuasca?

I think I am hoping my dose of mimosa next trip.

 

[universecannon]

If you take a higher dose it can definitely start effecting your sense of self in a much more intense way. And if you take a psychedelic dose of rue along with the dmt, it will be quite different than a predominantly DMT exerience.

There is no guarantees of anything though, so I wouldn't go into it thinking that your going to be 'reborn' or anything specific. Holding expectations tightly usually doesn't get me anywhere personally.

For example, I felt I could learn to control my body temperature, the speed of my heart rate, if I was sick I felt like I could learn how to make my body cure itself.

Theses things are almost certainly delusions. DMT is just as capable as psilocybe mushrooms at producing delusions. From a scientific standpoint, entities would also be a delusion.

Please cite some scientific articles showing how entities are delusions (or not delusions, for that matter) :d

I think you mean from your philosophical standpoint here, and not a "scientific standpoint" (you seem to be confusing these two lately). Apart from perhaps Strassmans work, that aspect of the experience hasn't even been studied in an above-ground academic anyway, so that sentence doesn't makes any sense. These statements are your opinions... so please stop acting as if you are speaking on behalf of "science". You are speaking on behalf of your own personal perspective, interpretations, and understanding.

I'm not making any claims either way as to 'real' or 'delusion'- I think it's far more complex than that and I'm not sure the question or dualistic nature of these standpoints even makes sense - but I could point out many eminent scientists who would strongly disagree with your assertions; particularly the assertion that from a scientific standpoint, entities are just "delusions" (whatever that word even means here...?).

In regards to heart rate...There is no question that you can certainly control heart rate to some degree at will, and those who've meditated and honed their skills for decades can certainly do it far beyond our own capacities - which goes hand in hand with entering lower brainwave states. Perhaps psychedelics can enable similar abilities? We simply don't know for sure at this point, but they can definitely enhance meditation. In any case, writing them off as "almost certainly delusions" is a premature conclusion and misleading IMO, which does nothing to further our understanding of the experience.

Btw even temperature can be controlled far more than people (even scientists) long assumed. Example- Meditation dramatically changes body temperatures — Harvard Gazette

(and why are you so sure about DMT and mushroom's identical capacity to generate delusions if you've only taken mushrooms once...?)

 

[pitubo]

I understand you are supposed to be reborn on high enough doses, swallowed by a snake or what not. Have many of you experienced this?

Sometimes, phenomena are not expressed literally, but metaphorically. You will see it when you see it.

In my opinion, you are not supposed to be, do or feel anything anyone else said or wrote and you are free to be, do or feel anything you are, do or feel on ayahuasca (or shrooms or meditating or anything). It's your experience.

Go ahead and try it (in a safe and responsible manner). Discover ayahuasca. Discover yourself. Discover the similarities with others. The differences. Come tell us about it.

Personally, most of my trips were unlike the other trips. Even when substance, amount, set, setting etc. were the same. Because often, I wasn't the same.

You are the most important ingredient of your trip.

Enjoy

 

[acapuchinu]

I like the way you said that.

 

[jamie]

" From a scientific standpoint, entities would also be a delusion."

That is an odd statement when carefully concidered.

I dont find DMT and psilocybe mushrooms that different personally. Mushrooms tend to be harder for my ego to deal with though..which makes things tricky. Mushrooms are also extrmely earthy in feel while simultaniously traveling the stars.

Mushrooms are funnier, and extremely saturated with color in the visions.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

For further discussion on the topic of entities as delusions, see: Entities as Delusions?

 

[Infectedstyle]

I have recently started venturing into the realm of ayahuasca, or more accurately the mimosa Syrian rue analogue.

After hearing how DMT and psilocybin are very alike as a chemical structure I thought at first I would have pretty similar effects but in some aspects I have had even opposite effects.

I haven't seen it mentioned, so..

Quick lesson in biochemistry for those who didn't know;

Psilocybin when converted to Psilocin completely bypasses the MAO activity which normally causes oral dmt to be destroyed before it reaches the brain.

This is all very mainstream information but,

When comparing effects we have to take into account the powerful MAO-Inhibiting properties that oral DMT requires. While DMT and Psilocin are structurally almost similar. Both Serotonin Analogs.

Psilocin is considerably stronger because it reaches the brain in isolation. Theoretically, it dominates the brain moreso than ayahuasca. The MAO-Inhibiting properties of Rue cause both DMT and also Serotonin levels to rise.

This is obvously a different cocktail in the brain than if we where to ingest Psilocin by itself. I woulden't take my word for it but from what I understand; Serotonin analogs like DMT and Psilocin compete with regular serotonin neurotransmittion for control over the serotonin sections of the brain.

That doesn't tell the whole tale though,
Since psilocin is NOT an endogenous neurotransmitter. It does not suprise me at all that Psilocin greatly alters the normal state of mind compared to MAO+DMT or even DMT alone.

For those interested in the science;
Serotonin analogs produce a different intracellular response compared to normal serotonin or dmt release in the brain. See this Source. David nichols.

Also, Controling heart beat must be useful when having sex. :d

 

[۩]

Controlling heart rate is easy. It's done with adjusting the breath and state of mind. When done right the change is instant. Have confirmed with heart rate monitor.
I know LSD has improved peoples vision so it wouldn't surprise me that DMT would have a similar effect.

 

[Infectedstyle]

(added a small addition with quote to my earlier post for those interested)

Controlling heart rate is easy. It's done with adjusting the breath and state of mind. When done right the change is instant. Have confirmed with heart rate monitor.
I know LSD has improved peoples vision so it wouldn't surprise me that DMT would have a similar effect.

Some people meditate for years. Being able to adjust temperatures in this way is quite a feat!

I am trying to heal part of my back in this fashion but with limited succes. If we could control temperature regulation inside the brain we would be able to heal regions of the brain that are normally unable to be accessed by regular medicine or operations.

Brain damage is another one of those tricky and deep regions of the brain that are not easily healed. If we can regulate temperatures by itself then we can activate regions of the brain on command by simply regulating energy/chemical distribution in deep brain regions.

I think that if you can decrease heart-beat and consequently brain waves to delta state we start going into REM-sleep.. Succesful meditation, no?

A friend of mine literally goes level 5 on command when taking low dose of shrooms and even mdma. He is naturally chill. Compare that to me, who is naturally anxious and insomnious. Blehh, Says i have some work to do with LSD or Psilocybin, eh?