b. caapi 30x extract

[lightwill]

just to correct you.. its easy to extract harmalas with food-safe materials.. I have done it and all one needs is water, vinegar and sodium carbonate (which can be made from sodium bicarbonate).. Its just making a tea, adding the base, filtering and thats it.. Of course the first run will be crude, but redissolve, refilter, reprecipitate a few times and you got the full range of clean alkaloids easily. Indeed one shouldnt salt out because, at least I've heard so but still havent had the opportunity to check, THH doesnt preciptate as a salt in salt-saturated solution (but it does as a base in high pH solution so its no prob)

actually i wasn't really in need of correction, my statement was an attempt to seek input which you have provided. So what you are saying is that an aqueous acetic acid extraction of the biomass (banisteriopsis caapi), filtration, then treatment with base is enough to precipitate the crystals? for some reason this does not sound right to me. It seems like you would also be causing the sodium carbonate to end up in the product. there is no condensation of the aqueous solution required to cause precipitation? Anyway I thought I had already tried that in my experiments but maybe not. More details would be appreciated.

and 160 bucks for 1kg of caapi may be near wholesale price in some places but if they have good contact in south america they can def get it significantly cheaper

and actually i have one of the best peruvian providers of caapi vine one could hope for. the vine is cielo variety and well aged. i pay $40 per KG. Then, to get a SENASA permit for shipment so peruvian customs does not take it, costs $30. then, to pay the western union fees costs even more money. So.. For each 10KG shipment of vine, shipped economy, the cheapest way, it costs me $65 per KG. Thats for purchasing 10KG at a time, directly from the man who harvests the vines. Nobody is getting caapi into the USA for cheaper than that, I guarantee it.

And you were missing my point about wholesales and retails. When you retail something in tiny tiny increments, something you have taken time to manufacture, you take a whole lot of time weighing up and piecing out little tiny sales for next to no money, it just doesnt add up. believe me, i have done all this work and there is no way I would do it, only to have results which would be the same as selling (10) 100gm increments of caapi vine, which by the way, most people sell for alot more than $16. Do you understand my point now?
They aren't wholesaling anything, they are retailing at the most retail level imaginable!!!! and when people retail, they usually don't do it for less than 300-400%. That is simply selling the product and not even speaking about manufacturing a new product from the biomass.

also, why is it that they sell biomass from all the other products but not from the caapi vine? number one reason that comes to mind: they make far more profit by selling the extract. how could this be? why is the type of vine which the extract derived from never spoken? anybody that knows anything about ayahuasca knows that one caapi vine is not another. the quality is a huge range! the experiences from the different strains are highly varied! this are all good points to consider. just eating random alkaloids with no description as to there origin seems strange to me. but to each his own.

 

[endlessness]

actually i wasn't really in need of correction, my statement was an attempt to seek input which you have provided. So what you are saying is that an aqueous acetic acid extraction of the biomass (banisteriopsis caapi), filtration, then treatment with base is enough to precipitate the crystals? for some reason this does not sound right to me. It seems like you would also be causing the sodium carbonate to end up in the product. there is no condensation of the aqueous solution required to cause precipitation? Anyway I thought I had already tried that in my experiments but maybe not. More details would be appreciated.

didnt meant to offend you, we all need to be corrected at some point or another

I dont know why you think 'it doesnt sound right', if you care to explain why... Harmine and THH freebase are insoluble in water, therefore they precipitate in high pH.. its quite simple.. Im not saying this just for the sake of it, I say it from own experience because I have done it ..

No, sodium caronate would not end up in final product in any considerable amount simply because it is dissolved in the water, and one will filter the water and keep only the precipitated alkaloids. No need of 'condensation' (saturation ?), high pH, will precipitate the alkaloids immediately, you can see the colour of the solution changing as it does..

any other information you would like, feel free to ask

and actually i have one of the best peruvian providers of caapi vine one could hope for. the vine is cielo variety and well aged. i pay $40 per KG. Then, to get a SENASA permit for shipment so peruvian customs does not take it, costs $30. then, to pay the western union fees costs even more money. So.. For each 10KG shipment of vine, shipped economy, the cheapest way, it costs me $65 per KG. Thats for purchasing 10KG at a time, directly from the man who harvests the vines. Nobody is getting caapi into the USA for cheaper than that, I guarantee it.

I dont doubt you have good caapi connections Im from Dreamland, and (though caapi is supposedly not allowed to be sold there) I know I could get for very cheap when I was there, so I was just remarking that if they have some good connections it is possible they can get it very cheap.. I think you are making quite an unsubstantiated assumption when you say you have the best cheapest connection in the whole of USA, but who knows


Im not defending FV, btw, I never bought from them.. I was just exposing that they COULD be getting cheap caapi and extracting from it, it is possible... Maybe they get it powdered already and thats why they dont sell biomass because people tend to not like caapi powdered? or maybe they have a specific strain very high in alkaloids that they dont want people to know about so they can keep the business? who knows... I also wonder, maybe someone should email them and ask..

BTW, its not 'random alkaloids', its THH and Harmine, so people who buy it are getting what they want, I guess, nothing random about that.. If FV doesnt want to say the source, its their choice and consumers have to decide whether they are cool with it or not.. Apparently you dont like it, which is a very valid opinion and its interesting that you share it with us. I have my own caapi and rue and make my own extracts, but for those who dont, I guess they are happy that there is someone selling it

In any case, what do you suppose they ARE doing then? extracting alkalods from rue instead? that there is no THH in the mix at all? Or what.. just out of curiosity, what do you think the other possibilities are?

 

[lightwill]

didnt meant to offend you, we all need to be corrected at some point or another

I'm not offended, just making conversation. I appreciate your input and I am entertained by this conversation. words typed on a keyboard hardly convey energy.. if we were speaking face to face having a conversation with these words, I would be smiling, because I am learning.

I dont know why you think 'it doesnt sound right', if you care to explain why... Harmine and THH freebase are insoluble in water, therefore they precipitate in high pH.. its quite simple.. Im not saying this just for the sake of it, I say it from own experience because I have done it ..

it was clear from your previous statements that you had done it, but thanks for the pic. nice xtals by the way. inspiring. what did not sound right to me was the high purity of the finished product.. I suppose I was assuming alot of carbonate would leave the solution because maybe it was a saturated solution of carbonate to achieve the desired alkalinity. which is why i asked about condensation, or rather condensation of the solution by evaporation or whatever you want to call it. i assume maybe this was neccesary for precipitation of the alkaloids, which would also cause the carbonate to precipitate, but your response has cleared that up. I did not realize the alkaloids were so insoluble in basic solution. and it also did not sound right because I thought I remembered doing something similar to that, but I suppose not. I have a whole jug of acetic solution with a KG of caapi dissolved in it right now. I had treated it with some HCL and also some salt in an attempt to 'salt out' the crystals. this didn't work and i put the whole jug in the fridge.. this was several months ago. your answer to my questions now allows me to process this jug with only food grade ingredients. i was planning on extracting it with non polar solvent for personal use after treatment with carbon and recrystalization. now i dont have to do all that, and i can be sure no traces of solvent remain because i wont use any... thanks again.

and actually i have one of the best peruvian providers of caapi vine one could hope for. the vine is cielo variety and well aged. i pay $40 per KG. Then, to get a SENASA permit for shipment so peruvian customs does not take it, costs $30. then, to pay the western union fees costs even more money. So.. For each 10KG shipment of vine, shipped economy, the cheapest way, it costs me $65 per KG. Thats for purchasing 10KG at a time, directly from the man who harvests the vines. Nobody is getting caapi into the USA for cheaper than that, I guarantee it.

I dont doubt you have good caapi connections Im from Brazil, and (though caapi is supposedly not allowed to be sold there) I know I could get for very cheap when I was there, so I was just remarking that if they have some good connections it is possible they can get it very cheap.. I think you are making quite an unsubstantiated assumption when you say you have the best cheapest connection in the whole of USA, but who knows

I am not trying to brag, I know this statement sounds extremely arrogant. But I am in the botanical distribution business and I have been researching suppliers and comparing prices for the last year. I have made quite a bit of headway as I have sources in brazil for farmed caapi, and several sources in peru. i have compared all of their prices for wholesales and i know that each is *significantly* more than what I pay my friend down there right now who harvests the vine. that is why i made that statement. and the point wasnt to brag to say 'oh yeah i get it so cheap' the point was to analyze the feasibility of retailing such tiny increments of product for almost no profit. still i dont think you are getting that part of my point.... selling 200mg of alkaloids is as retail as it can get, and any retailer in their right mind would turn more of a profit. that is why it does not make sense to me.

Im not defending FV, btw, I never bought from them.. I was just exposing that they COULD be getting cheap caapi and extracting from it, it is possible... Maybe they get it powdered already and thats why they dont sell biomass because people tend to not like caapi powdered? or maybe they have a specific strain very high in alkaloids that they dont want people to know about so they can keep the business? who knows... I also wonder, maybe someone should email them and ask..

i am not trying to attack FV. power to them if they are righteous. I have not really stated an opinion one way or the other, because i have never sampled their product. to be sure, personally, if i were going to ingest something i would want to know the origins and the processing. but that is just me i guess.

BTW, its not 'random alkaloids', its THH and Harmine, so people who buy it are getting what they want, I guess, nothing random about that.. If FV doesnt want to say the source, its their choice and consumers have to decide whether they are cool with it or not.. Apparently you dont like it, which is a very valid opinion and its interesting that you share it with us. I have my own caapi and rue and make my own extracts, but for those who dont, I guess they are happy that there is someone selling it

I suppose you probably know quite a bit more about caapi and the experiences than I do. Please dont take this as sarcasm it is not. I say this because where you are from and I know how long I have been experimenting with caapi. So it serves no purpose to reiterate the idea about the different strains and the different experiences derived from each strain, as you are well aware of this. That is why I said "random alkaloids". maybe the alkaloids themselves are not random, but the ratios of each to the other are. because we don't know the origin (ie: which strain of vine). therefor, we cannot know the effects without bioassay. that was my whole point.

In any case, what do you suppose they ARE doing then? extracting alkalods from rue instead? that there is no THH in the mix at all? Or what.. just out of curiosity, what do you think the other possibilities are?

this is a good question. and it is most of the point of the conversation, although i think you have mentioned the only possibilities that i can think of. i am not saying one way or the other i simply was being argumentative for the purpose of input and analysis from others. i read one of their other items which they say is an alkaloid combination of rue and caapi, etc. but they claim the caapi copy is only caapi alkaloids. maybe it is. i dont know. it just didnt make sense to me. does not seem like it would be worth anybodies time to do that. Again, as I mentioned.. it would be MUCH easier to sell 1/10 increments for $16 of straight up biomass. Without having to do *any* work and it would sell much quicker because it's only 10 sales and not 100.

And about the other things you said about them bringing it so thats cool.. I agree. If they are selling a product that is helping people then good for them. I was only trying to understand how it is possible for them to do this, given the above mentioned factors.

Thanks for your energy it is appreciated. Maybe I will post a pic of the crystals I get from my KG of caapi using your base crystalization tek. then, i will share how much alkaloids i yield from one KG of premium cielo caapi and we can re-visit the idea of whether it's worth it or not! ha ha j/k (sort of)

peace!

 

[freedomt]

not to hijack the thread but everybody heere seems to have extensive knowledge and i was wondering if 200mg of caapi copy could be taken and then about half hour later a chacruna tea could be taken to provide a visionary exp?

 

[endlessness]

it was clear from your previous statements that you had done it, but thanks for the pic. nice xtals by the way. inspiring. what did not sound right to me was the high purity of the finished product.. I suppose I was assuming alot of carbonate would leave the solution because maybe it was a saturated solution of carbonate to achieve the desired alkalinity. which is why i asked about condensation, or rather condensation of the solution by evaporation or whatever you want to call it. i assume maybe this was neccesary for precipitation of the alkaloids, which would also cause the carbonate to precipitate, but your response has cleared that up. I did not realize the alkaloids were so insoluble in basic solution. and it also did not sound right because I thought I remembered doing something similar to that, but I suppose not. I have a whole jug of acetic solution with a KG of caapi dissolved in it right now. I had treated it with some HCL and also some salt in an attempt to 'salt out' the crystals. this didn't work and i put the whole jug in the fridge.. this was several months ago. your answer to my questions now allows me to process this jug with only food grade ingredients. i was planning on extracting it with non polar solvent for personal use after treatment with carbon and recrystalization. now i dont have to do all that, and i can be sure no traces of solvent remain because i wont use any... thanks again.

glad to be of help.. yeah the thing is that for the pH to be high enough for precipitation, as you now understand, is still far from saturation point so the sodium carbonate doesnt crash out (and since one doesnt need to evap more, then it wont be trouble in this sense)

btw, how much salt did you put in the jug? Its possible some alkaloids might have precipitated if you added enough so maybe filter the liquid in a fine filter before adding the base, if possible. You have the biomass filtered already so its just liquid right?

As for the purity, yeah it doesnt get pure in the first run, as I mentioned.. To get those crystals I had to repeat maybe 5x, adding the base, precip and filter, then redissolve in acidic water, filter the acidic water many times to remove impurities, precipitate again with base, etc... First run is much more brown (I wonder how much in % of alkaloids.. I also didnt weigh to see how much less weighs the product after many purifications than from the first run, would be nice to know)

I am not trying to brag, I know this statement sounds extremely arrogant. But I am in the botanical distribution business and I have been researching suppliers and comparing prices for the last year. I have made quite a bit of headway as I have sources in Dreamland for farmed caapi, and several sources in peru. i have compared all of their prices for wholesales and i know that each is *significantly* more than what I pay my friend down there right now who harvests the vine. that is why i made that statement. and the point wasnt to brag to say 'oh yeah i get it so cheap' the point was to analyze the feasibility of retailing such tiny increments of product for almost no profit. still i dont think you are getting that part of my point.... selling 200mg of alkaloids is as retail as it can get, and any retailer in their right mind would turn more of a profit. that is why it does not make sense to me.

as I mentioned, I do believe you! Now that you explain yourself it doesnt sound arrogant, it was just part of your argument, thanks for clearing that up I understand your point about retail selling of these alkaloids so 'cheap', at least in usual prices of caapi, seems counter-intuitive... Its possible there is something else to it we are not aware of.. So I guess we both agree it COULD be real, in the case they have some special strain or some very cheap connection, or it could be something else, but one thing I really doubt is true is that there is no THH there, simply because they also sell pure THH and there are loads of people that can test, that can tell the difference between the harmalas, etc, so I guess they would be debunked by now had they been selling harmine or whatever and not THH

i am not trying to attack FV. power to them if they are righteous. I have not really stated an opinion one way or the other, because i have never sampled their product. to be sure, personally, if i were going to ingest something i would want to know the origins and the processing. but that is just me i guess.

yep me too, in general, I'd much rather know exactly what im consuming, from what plant, using what chemicals.. Also same with food, know where it came from, what the process was like before it got to me, etc.. Too bad thats not always possible, but I do think we have to try as much as possible to be ever more conscious of the processes behind things we consume and use, form a connection to the world around us and not an illusionary separation...

So it serves no purpose to reiterate the idea about the different strains and the different experiences derived from each strain, as you are well aware of this. That is why I said "random alkaloids". maybe the alkaloids themselves are not random, but the ratios of each to the other are. because we don't know the origin (ie: which strain of vine). therefor, we cannot know the effects without bioassay. that was my whole point.

yeah you are very right, there are HUGE variations in different strains, so it would be very interesting to know from which strain this was and whats the exact ratio of the alkaloids... I have a feeling they will keep it secret, though..

Thanks for your energy it is appreciated. Maybe I will post a pic of the crystals I get from my KG of caapi using your base crystalization tek. then, i will share how much alkaloids i yield from one KG of premium cielo caapi and we can re-visit the idea of whether it's worth it or not! ha ha j/k (sort of)

peace!

haha yeah do that.. I would be curious how much is your yield from one kg of cielo, and I love pictures, so dont forget to post back

not to hijack the thread but everybody heere seems to have extensive knowledge and i was wondering if 200mg of caapi copy could be taken and then about half hour later a chacruna tea could be taken to provide a visionary exp?

yeah sure, cant see why it wouldnt work, if you have a good enough dose of dmt in that chacruna

 

[lightwill]

btw, how much salt did you put in the jug? Its possible some alkaloids might have precipitated if you added enough so maybe filter the liquid in a fine filter before adding the base, if possible. You have the biomass filtered already so its just liquid right?

Not sure that I remember... A significant amount. I think I did see a small amount of alkaloids precipitate but nothing much. I will filter again to make sure no product is lost though. Yeah, it's filtered. I have a jug of filtrate and another rinse of just acetic caapi with biomass still. Will filter, combine, then process as planned.

As for the purity, yeah it doesnt get pure in the first run, as I mentioned.. To get those crystals I had to repeat maybe 5x, adding the base, precip and filter, then redissolve in acidic water, filter the acidic water many times to remove impurities, precipitate again with base, etc...

Isn't this the fun part you were talking about? I am well versed in rxtal teks, thanks!

I also didnt weigh to see how much less weighs the product after many purifications than from the first run, would be nice to know)

I will calculate my results and share them...

Its possible there is something else to it we are not aware of.. So I guess we both agree it COULD be real, in the case they have some special strain or some very cheap connection, or it could be something else, but one thing I really doubt is true is that there is no THH there, simply because they also sell pure THH and there are loads of people that can test, that can tell the difference between the harmalas, etc, so I guess they would be debunked by now had they been selling harmine or whatever and not THH

of course, it could be real and most likely is. we are in agreement in all the areas we discussed it appears. i was not trying to suggest there was no THH in there either. Here is a link to their feedback, it is tricky to find from the page but I found it with google after a reference someone else made to it:

http://flowingvisions.ecrater.com/view-feedback.php?storeid=18704

As you can see from the feedback it is mostly great reviews. apparently they have alot of happy customers. only one person said they felt poisoned, but this very well could have been from conflicted things consumed by that person during MAOI or simply an overdose of pure alkaloids.

Really I suppose my purpose in critical analysis was to have a discussion about the topic. It is of interest and relevance to me. Again thanks for your input. I am sure others reviewing this thread will also find learning here. Knowledge is a beautiful thing. Actually before this discussion I was not aware of a way to precipitate the alkaloids, as I explained. I did a fair bit of searching about this topic in the usual places but revealed nothing useful.

here is something funny, i just ordered some USP sodium carbonate from flowing visions! see i have nothing against them! haha.. actually i already have some carbonate but it's not USP so I dont want to use it. the fact that they sell this also seems to indicate they use the process you described.

I'd much rather know exactly what im consuming, from what plant, using what chemicals.. Also same with food, know where it came from, what the process was like before it got to me, etc.. Too bad thats not always possible, but I do think we have to try as much as possible to be ever more conscious of the processes behind things we consume and use, form a connection to the world around us and not an illusionary separation...

yes this is exactly how I think. i feel it is important to know the origins of things for sure.. energetically and otherwise. i am very particular about the food i put in my body.

yeah you are very right, there are HUGE variations in different strains, so it would be very interesting to know from which strain this was and whats the exact ratio of the alkaloids... I have a feeling they will keep it secret, though..

yeah they probably do have some special strain. maybe it's the black one or caupuri who knows. in any case, if they produce the same product consistently, then the customers who are acquainted with their offering will understand what the results will be when they consume it .... and it would sort of be like a 'known' thing at that point.

haha yeah do that.. I would be curious how much is your yield from one kg of cielo, and I love pictures, so dont forget to post back

i'll show some pics too...

peace & light

 

[lightwill]

does anybody have any ideas about the hcl salts of caapi alks?

in asking this i wonder if it would serve any purpose to prepare this way? or would free based be more/less desirable? and why?

i am considering preparing some but should i even bother?

thanks!

 

[lightwill]

greetings fellow beings-
peace & light all,

i am going to post some pics of my caapi copy in a couple days. this is the experimental tek that I am going to try.

acetic solution of caapi alkaloids, treatment with sodium carbonate, allow for crystalization, filter, obtain impure crystals, dissolve impure crystals ethanol, add activated carbon, filter through fine paper, evaporate ethanol. possibly recrystalize if needed, but i doubt it will be neccesary.

Much love & Light to all, blessings.

 

[lightwill]

well, i won't be able to post an accurate yield calculation, and i feel quite stupid. but i will share nonetheless:

like a fool, i just dumped a bunch of sodium carbonate into the plastic vinegar jug full of acetic caapi and shook it up. i watched the jug start to expand so i quickly opened the lid to relieve the pressure of a significant explosion which happened anyway. the potion came out like a fountain and somehow jumped about 7 feet across the room to land on an exposed heated light bulb, which caused another explosion and almost caused a fire!!! the amount of energy released was truly impressive and surprising. i am sure the spirits had something to do with it because logically it does not seem like so much energy should have been generated from such a reaction.

i should have known better of course. but when working with such mundane things as 5% vinegar and sodium carbonate, i suppose i let the usual safety precautions go out the window.. including eye protection. i am *very* thankful none of the potion made it to my eyes, because it did land in my hair and on my face. i am also thankful that i did not experience an electric fire.

this was truly a humbling experience and i am sharing this with the community so nobody makes the same mistake.

 

[lightwill]

on the brighter side of things, there is a now big white rock in the bottom of the vinegar jug! i didn't use that much carbonate so i am betting it's a caapi copy rock! hahahah

 

[69ron]

That's not quite the same thing as what Caapi Copy is though. There already exists a few other B. caapi alkaloid extracts that are as potent as Caapi Copy being sold by other vendors which SWIM has tried and they are good and about the same price. What makes Caapi copy different is that it's isolated alkaloids that are then put back together in a precise set ratio to copy the effects of good quality caapi. It's not just an extract. Extracts vary in effects because the B. caapi alkaloids vary in concentration, but Caapi Copy doesn't vary in effects. It produces the same effects each time. So while many have made standard B. Caapi extracts available, there is only one source that sales Caapi Copy or anything remotely similar.

However you do it, it's going to be pricey because B. caapi is expensive. I think unless you live where B. caapi grows, any extract you make is going to be very high priced because of the cost of shipping B. caapi and the massive amounts you'd need to turn a profit.

Good luck. If you can manage creating a product with a cheaper price than what's already out there, that would be great. You'll have a lot of happy customers. I think you’ll have to grow the caapi yourself otherwise the cost of shipping will eat into your profits heavily. Most of the B. caapi extracts I know of are made in South America because it’s cheaper there.

 

[lightwill]

That's not quite the same thing as what Caapi Copy is though. There already exists a few other B. caapi alkaloid extracts that are as potent as Caapi Copy being sold by other vendors which SWIM has tried and they are good and about the same price. What makes Caapi copy different is that it's isolated alkaloids that are then put back together in a precise set ratio to copy the effects of good quality caapi. It's not just an extract. Extracts vary in effects because the B. caapi alkaloids vary in concentration, but Caapi Copy doesn't vary in effects. It produces the same effects each time. So while many have made standard B. Caapi extracts available, there is only one source that sales Caapi Copy or anything remotely similar.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this. So caapi copy is beyond standardized then? I would expect the extracts to vary in effects as the growing conditions and the plants themselves vary, sure, of course. I work with cielo caapi which is probably all of a similar age. But of course it is wild harvest from various areas of Peru, which means, as you say, it will vary. This is to be expected but the extract would only vary as much as one batch of vine to the next... So it's the same thing when your making a brew. I am not so interested in creating a standard that will remain constant, only in creating a standard that remains proper. I am sure once someone got the feel for this it would be similar to the last batch, but not exact. I don't think this batch of caapi is too much different than the last, but there probably is some variation as you say.

However you do it, it's going to be pricey because B. caapi is expensive. I think unless you live where B. caapi grows, any extract you make is going to be very high priced because of the cost of shipping B. caapi and the massive amounts you'd need to turn a profit.

My friend takes good care of me. It's worth his time and mine. It is also very interesting to work through the process, so I suppose it fun, as endlessness stated earlier. What I didn't realize when he was saying 'fun' was the process we are discussing, which I do think is fun now. It is much simpler than ethanol extractions which require countless hours of heating and evaporation of ethanol. Grunt work basically. But I will still make the ethanol extract because I like the idea of a crude extract when we are speaking of caapi. The brown crystals are quite nice, I have bioassayed them many times. I have not yet bioassayed caapi copy or the alkaloidal extract I am currently processing. From your other posts I have gathered that you prefer pure THH and this is interesting to me as well. Something I intend to bioassay sometime soon. About the massive amounts of caapi... Well I have 10KG but I will probably only extract a couple of them. Getting 50 more or even 100 surely is no problem, but I will wait to do that until the demand exists. I already turn a profit from selling the caapi shreds, not much of one... But enough to keep everybody happy. The customers get 1/10kg for $15, and my friend in Peru is happy... I get enough to increase my orders each time, which is my only intention really. I don't do any of this to turn a profit- I do it to enlighten people, or to help the plants find where they need to be. I think the plants are surely here to help us but they need facilitators to spread their kind frequencies, thats my job now.. So it's not about money to me at all. I promise. Really, I am doing my part to change the world. nothing more, nothing less. blessed be.

Good luck. If you can manage creating a product with a cheaper price than what's already out there, that would be great. You'll have a lot of happy customers. I think you’ll have to grow the caapi yourself otherwise the cost of shipping will eat into your profits heavily. Most of the B. caapi extracts I know of are made in South America because it’s cheaper there.

Growing caapi myself, hmm.. I dont know. so many other plants that prefer the HID lights! hahaha. I am in a very cold region and caapi just cannot be kept outdoors. I did put my 4 year old cielo plant in a huge container under a 1000 watt just the other night though. I think he is happy! But it surely would take a decade to produce any biomass for the masses. I lowered the price on the 30x ethanolic extract to $10/gm, which I think is more than fair. The booze alone to process in this manner costs about $80 for the last KG I worked on. I may lower the price again though... I have a huge 1L soxhlet apparatus which I am waiting to put into action when my new 4L boiling flask arrives.... I should be able to fit 1/2kg of biomass inside it. This will lower the cost of the processing to only about $14-$30 for each KG processed....

As far as the "200X" extraction using vinegar and carbonate, well, the costs of materials are next to nothing. I am not so sure that it's 200X anyway. We'll see what it yields. I'll do the math on a fresh KG to be proper. It may be more like 100X, who knows. In any case, I will sell it for as little as possible, enough to pay for everybodies energy. And I am sure the customers will be happy because the cielo caapi I work with has a super kind vibration. Even with all the other extracts marketed, this one will be unique. Because I am processing it. My work is a prayer, my life is a prayer. I invoke the spirits of change into the work and I pray to the divine every step of the way. People feel this, I promise.

Blessings and Light,
me

 

[69ron]

If the product is unique, it should gather a fan base. I think other than lower price, that's the ticket to having a popular product I would imagine. There are already caapi extracts. I know of at least 20 vendors offering different kinds of caapi extracts. All are pricy.

It would be nice to see a vendor selling extracts of the different kinds of caapi, like black, red, white, etc. I haven't seen anything like that.

 

[lightwill]

Yes I agree.. I would like to have a color array of caapi x,

First I need to stock a color array of vine though.. I know my friend can get 'black' although he hasn't offered it to me yet. maybe i will ask. i can get the 'white' somewhere else, i was thinking of doing that also soon but only a few kg's to start. the red is very illusive, at least from my perspective... i have no leads for that one as of yet.

about the other vendors serving the caapi xtract, this is all fine and good for them. i like to think that my customers who are regulars at the site will buy my product just because they shop with my site. you know? so it doesn't really matter what the other vendors are doing, because i do have a good customer base of loyal shoppers currently. of course they will find products they need which i do not provide elsewhere... but i would like to think that if i offer comparable service then they will just go with that. the customers are loyal because the other services offered are impeccable. top quality, best prices, etc.

 

[lightwill]

well i have found the red. ask and you shall receive i suppose... should be able to have extracts and biomass from at least 4 strains within the next 1-2 months. thanks for the good idea.

 

[lightwill]

although i am still in the middle of my experiment, a thought just came to mind- the reason why the "200X" did not sit right with me from the start... I was fascinated with the direction that the conversation progressed toward so it slipped my mind to follow simple, obvious logic- a reversal of the equation. for a 200X to *even be possible* would mean that the Banisteriopsis caapi vine could have no more than .5% total alkaloids. Example if the Banisteriopsis caapi vine has 1% alkaloids then only a 100X would even be possible, even 100% pure alkaloids extracted. I don't know why I did not start with this in the first place it is the most obvious route of deductive reasoning.

I have not researched caapi at all to reference alkaloid content assayed by anyone elses studies... But I am sure that it is more than half a percent !!!!

I will post my yield results shortly. The crude crystals have been dissolved in ethanol and filtered to yield a very nice yellow-white crystalline powder which I will recrystalize once for the finished product.

 

[soulfood]

Maybe it's a magical extraction process

 

[lightwill]

ah, a possibility i did not consider! i do believe that manifestation is possible, thoughtforms or otherwise. An art that requires a high level of skill, but surely not impossible. in this case though, one probably wouldn't need the biomass at all!

 

[lightwill]

yield of 'almost' pure caapi alkaloids from <1KG of cielo caapi: 12.24gm

Crystals are white - yellow - orange. I am guessing around 90% purity after the charcoal filtration. they will be recrystalized one more time by precipitation from aqueous alkaline solution. i am sure the results from that will be 98%+ pure alkaloids.

shouldn't yield much less than 10gm of 98%+ pure alkaloids, meaning that as I thought, caapi has much more than 1/2% alkaloids. Debunked yet?

 

[69ron]

You need to have it professionally analyzed to know just how pure it actually is. Any number of things could have precipitated out with the alkaloids.