B-cyclodextrin BHO sublingual experiances

[inmocean]

Years ago I posted a thread related to encapsulating THC or maybe it was CBD in beta-cyclodextrin. Although the equilibria looked unfavorable, I figured I'd give it a shot as I recently found myself to have a small quantity of BHO.

Here's my 'tek'

I take a dabs worth quantity of oil and place it into the palm of my hand. I then add a small quantity of B-Cyd onto. I gently massage the oil into the powder until the oil seems to 'disappear' and a free flowing white powder remains(1-2minutes?). I then put the powder under my tongue and along the inside of my gums. 30min or so later stoney effects are felt similar to tincture. Peak onset appears to occur at about 45-60 minutes.

Over-all I prefer it significantly to tincture. It appears completely innoccous and likely stabilizes the compounds of interest. The safety of ingesting B-cyd is a subject of debate maybe. I'm comfortable with it. Figured it was worth reporting. Would be interested in hearing other people toying with other compounds in this manner.

 

[benzyme]

:thumb_up:

8)

 

[steppa]

Hey!

What does the B-cyclodextrin do? Just putting the decarbed BHO under my tounge works well too. What's the advantage of using B-cyclodextrin?

 

[benzyme]

afaik, in bioassays, it enhances bioavailability.

in analysis, it enhances separation of chiral molecules.

 

[Orion]

Hey!

What does the B-cyclodextrin do? Just putting the decarbed BHO under my tounge works well too. What's the advantage of using B-cyclodextrin?

It's kind of a ring molecule that can complex with certain molecules. It has it's own properties which can allow easier transport of a substance. I'm not sure how it is working in this case, but people would mix 25-x NBOMe with β-cyclodextrin in solution to increase it's absorption of doses layed on tabs.

I've been wondering if you could do the same with DMT and bypass MAO... but I'm not sure I understand the action enough to say for sure...

 

[steppa]

Thank you both for the explanation. I never heard of this. After reading a bit I am impressed of it's versatility. So it is able to "capture" certain molecules inside itself and then "release" them under certain circumstances?

And it makes certain molecules more soluble in water? I find this interesting in regards of THC...not only for sublingual application.

 

[D.REYx420]

Pretty awesome idea inmo, I really like the idea of using the cannabis concentrates sublingually compared to using rigs and the such.

 

[benzyme]

Thank you both for the explanation. I never heard of this. After reading a bit I am impressed of it's versatility. So it is able to "capture" certain molecules inside itself and then "release" them under certain circumstances?

And it makes certain molecules more soluble in water? I find this interesting in regards of THC...not only for sublingual application.

thc contains one OH group, which can bind with any of the OH groups on the interior of beta-cyclodextrin. the amphipathic properties allow for better absorption in aqueous environments, i.e. the mouth.

a more acidic environment will free up the bound molecules.

 

[inmocean]

I have and was sublingually using oil (without decarboxylating it) prior to toying with this method. It does work as stated. From my experiences it was less effective than tincture. Tincture provides better dispersal/surface area of active constituents and ethanol likely aids in permeability and thus efficacy.

Here's the idea. A lot of cannabinoids are degraded or not metabolized in a manner conducive to getting stoned via the process of ingestion. So that makes tincture favorable for some, but still a lot is lost by not passing through the broccial (s.p?) mucosa and into the blood.

I have found this method to give me greater effects than 'eating dabs' (sublingual). It still has a bodily focus as in tincture. So it's not aiken to donning a backwards baseball cap, heating up a titanium nail, and crashing at the gates of anandaland. Although, it does provide psychoactive effects and is therapeutic. Which is why I use cannabis when it rarely finds it's way into my life (once the past 2 years).


Potential benefits:
-Greater efficiency (This paper hints toward ~12x the serum concentration vs ethanol with rabbits : Sublingual administration of Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol/beta-cyclodextrin complex increases the bioavailability of Delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol in rabbits - PubMed )
-Longer shelf life
-Low odor (may not be a benefit)
-Innocous appearance (no one is going to field test a white powder for cannabinoids)

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I'll update with a quick experiment I just performed...

To ascertain whether or not oil was lost on the palms of my hand, I masticated the powder/oil on aluminum foil instead. It again went into a free-flowing solid appearance lending evidence to suggest that oil is not 'lost' in the process and is indeed complexing with the cyclodextrin. To what extent is unknown, but the method is appealing because it is incredibly simple.
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A way of explaining how this technology works could go like this. The exterior of the cyclodextrin molecule is hydrophillic (water loving) and contains lots of OH groups (water likes those). The interior of the molecule is hydrophobic (nonpolar environment loving) due to the availability for interaction with of carbon-carbon bonds. So non-polar(especially aromatic) compounds happily dock inside of the ring. While the sugar being hydrophillic happily docks to the proteins and transport areas of enzymes made to digest linear/chain formed saccharides. So a non-polar compound of interest can then find it's way 'passing' through regions of the mouth inwhich it normally would not by using the cyclodextrin as a sort of direction-less 'vehicle'. I could speak at length behind cyclodextrin clathrates and stuff but for the uninitiated, that may aid in the understanding.

 

[steppa]

a more acidic environment will free up the bound molecules.

Would this disqualify it for orions idea for using it to bypass MAO? I imagine the DMT beeing freed up in the stomach then. IF it would be able to bind DMT in the first place.

 

[benzyme]

I don't really know, worth experimenting with

 

[Poekus]

Interesting topic. I recently experimented with betacyclodextrin inclusion with baicalin and artesiminin which are naturally very poor water soluble and recent research indicates this inclusion will make it more effective kind of similar in a way that artesunate is a better bioavailable substance compared to artemisinin. This would make a fun experiment, isomerize some pure crystalline cbd and making an bcd inclusion. https://cyclolab.hu/userfiles/CD NEWS_2018_FEBRUARY.pdf