Backsalting straight into PG from NPS?

[Ernestine]

I'm really interested in whether it's possible to extract an appropriate dmt salt to a propylene glycol solution without freezing or evaporating to freebase, or creating a honey as in HIELO tek.

If I mixed PG with some acid that will dissolve in it, could I use that solution to salt DMT freebase from a non polar solvent?

I think citric acid will dissolve in PG, right? And PG is immiscible with naptha. One problem i forsee is that I'd have a very small amount of pg, probably a few mls, whereas we normally have a much greater volume of loaded NPS. Also will the higher viscosity of pg be a problem?

 

[Sakkadelic]

That might work but wouldn't there be a great risk of having NPS residue in your PG?

 

[Ernestine]

That might work but wouldn't there be a great risk of having NPS residue in your PG?

It's not a huge concern for me. I'm not one to get worked up about homeopathic levels of NPS or base for that matter. We could evaporate any residue with a waterbath.

 

[Transform]

Maybe consider using heptane instead of naphtha. It's 'cleaner', in terms of being a pure substance rather than a mixture.

It's also a good idea to make absolutely sure that you're not needlessly inhaling hydrocarbon vapours.

All that being said, I'd encourage you to get on with some preliminary experiments, since this idea crossed my mind yesterday on rediscovering my can of PG in a dusty cupboard.

 

[blig-blug]

I'm really interested in whether it's possible to extract an appropriate dmt salt to a propylene glycol solution without freezing or evaporating to freebase, or creating a honey as in HIELO tek.

If I mixed PG with some acid that will dissolve in it, could I use that solution to salt DMT freebase from a non polar solvent?

I think citric acid will dissolve in PG, right? And PG is immiscible with naptha. One problem i forsee is that I'd have a very small amount of pg, probably a few mls, whereas we normally have a much greater volume of loaded NPS. Also will the higher viscosity of pg be a problem?

Did you try this in the end?

I was thinking of trying something similar but with ethyl acetate instead of heptane, and water instead of PG. Similar to HIELO but with a relatively large volume of water, to be further reduced (and potentially mixed with vodka afterwards). The idea would be oral consumption.

Directly mixing ground syrian rue (as in Ethyl Acetate Approach Harmala - DMT-Nexus Wiki) with the MHRB could directly yield pharmahuasca.

 

[Ernestine]

I haven't yet. It was HIELO that stimulated this idea. I'm also worried that it would not work well with such small volumes of pg vs 10-20x NPS, and that any losses of pg in transfers would reduce yield greatly.

 

[Transform]

Did you try this in the end?

I was thinking of trying something similar but with ethyl acetate instead of heptane, and water instead of PG. Similar to HIELO but with a relatively large volume of water, to be further reduced (and potentially mixed with vodka afterwards). The idea would be oral consumption.

Directly mixing ground syrian rue (as in Ethyl Acetate Approach Harmala - DMT-Nexus Wiki) with the MHRB could directly yield pharmahuasca.

Use too much water and you'll risk dissolving all your EA in it. Presumably that's what the term "relatively" is intended to take care of. You're essentially describing backsalting from EA into citric acid solution. And there's nothing wrong with that, especially if you know exactly what quantities you're dealing with.

I haven't yet. It was HIELO that stimulated this idea. I'm also worried that it would not work well with such small volumes of pg vs 10-20x NPS, and that any losses of pg in transfers would reduce yield greatly.

Besides that physical constraint (which might be overome by using somewhat obscene volumes of ingredients), a further sub-optimal aspect of this method - and particularly so in that it pertains to end use - is that you'd be pretty much guaranteed to have an excess of citric acid in the PG. Tribasic DMT citrate will have a tendency to dissociate into the freebase, and some of that will go back into the naphtha or simply remain there because of the combined effects of dissociation and partition equilibria.

I'd have to check, but I seem to recall the optimal citrate juice had a small excess of DMT over the exact stochiometry of the citrate. This could be rectified by adding some amount of solid DMT, but that starts to defy the point of the simplicity of the method.

There would also be the question of how the potency of the "straight-to-juice" product might be determined, along with the technical issue of contacting a relatively large NPS volume with a much smaller amoutt of PG. The former has its own inbuilt limiting factor with the amount of citric acid being used - equilibrium equations notwithstanding (and, tbh, they're not that difficult) - while the latter can be taken care of with some reasonably simple apparatus. I think that passing a thin stream of NPS through the PG with stirring would do a fine job of it.

 

[blig-blug]

Use too much water and you'll risk dissolving all your EA in it. Presumably that's what the term "relatively" is intended to take care of

Thanks for the warning, I actually didn't know this was a possibility. I thought it wasn't water soluble at all, but yes, 87g/L.
Even if dissolved, reducing the water would lower the amount of EA, right?

 

[Transform]

Thanks for the warning, I actually didn't know this was a possibility. I thought it wasn't water soluble at all, but yes, 87g/L.
Even if dissolved, reducing the water would lower the amount of EA, right?

Yes, the EA would evaporate preferentially alongside the water.