Best equipment/technique for hassle-free pulling?

[ॐ]

Hi Nexians. I'm wrapping up my first extraction, following Cyb's Max Ion tek as closely as possible.
The whole procedure went very smoothly, better than I had initially expected. However, once I got to the pulling phase, I realized I had slightly underestimated what an arduous step this would be (though that doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people, even when using jars and turkey basters).
I couldn't find much on how to really make this process as quick, or more importantly, as hassle-free as possible. So I figured I might as well start a topic for anyone in the same boat as me to ask everyone for his/her preferred equipment and techniques for doing pulls.


The tek I followed starts out with 400ml of water/bark mix, then some vinegar for the acid cook, a litre of salt solution and some basified water. I'm not sure if I should have reduced it at any point, but in the end I ended up with ~1600ml of black basified mhrb in my 2L erlenmeyer flask.

Due to to enormous surface area of such a vessel, I quickly realized I needed to transfer as much of the solvent to a tall and narrow container. I used 75-100ml naphtha per pull, then after mixing/separating x3, I poured as much of the solution into a 500ml beaker, and from there carefully decanted as much naphtha into a ~6cm diameter tall measuring cylinder.

Quite a bit of naphtha stays behind in each container after all this decanting, and I still had difficulty sucking the last .6cm or so of solvent (~67ml) up with a burette. So I carefully decanted the top layer of naphtha to a small ~1cm diameter 10ml vial (the best option I had at hand at the time). This helped to pipette the final solvent as thoroughly as possible, but as you can imagine it took several hours for me to do 3 pulls on this large a volume of liquid.

I have a 1L separatory funnel, but when trying that, it clogged almost immediately even though the base soup was quite watery and not prone to emulsions at all. I've since read that sep funnels are better suited for A/B extractions, so I'm considering trying my hand at a proper A/B next time using less liquid. Not to knock Cyb's tek at all though, it is clearly very well thought-out and I'm seeing some crystals appear in my evap dish already even if my technique wasn't that great at the final step. I'm just wondering how to improve the pulling process for such large volumes of liquid

Attempting to decant to a smaller container worked quite well, but was arduous starting from such a large vessel. Also, while decanting around 1/4th of the total volume of the layer stays behind in the previous container as the last of the naphtha just creeps to the back during decanting and your collection container simply fills with base soup.

My first idea is to get a large volumetric flask with a tall neck that is as thin as possible, and a glass funnel to fill it up with. Maybe some glass eyedroppers would also work better for collecting the final mls of solvent, although they are typically very small and might be hard to reach into a narrow space with, so you would have to make sure to have enough base soup underneath to get the goodies as close to the opening as possible. I used a burette with a bulb, and noticed that while it was great for sucking/holding/releasing the naphtha, it did not have the precise control over suction strength necessary for handling smaller amounts of liquid while leaving the base goop undisturbed.

So, just wondering what everyone's preferred optimal method is, particularly if you are used to working with larger volumes. I really underestimated some of the finesse required in this step, although I learned a lot from my first extraction and am feeling positive about it in the end :thumb_up:

 

[Chan]

Never be afraid to add water to basified soup, so that the level reaches the neck, forming a small cylinder perfect for slurping up NPS. Doesn't matter whether you're using an Erlenmeyer or a cider-jug, and the pH will barely change, for small amounts.

The best, but dirtiest way (I hate plastics!) I've found was pouring the soup & solvent mix into a large ziplock bag, which I clipped to a rail, so a corner hung downwards (so the bag was a diamond, not a square, if you get what I mean?)

Have a big vessel and a small one nearby, then snip the tiniest corner off the bag with scissors. The first run will be soup, into the larger vessel. As the changeover approaches, switch in the smaller vessel, and collect clean NPS, quickly.

The size of the snipped hole should take into account how quickly the NPS portion could run through it...! For say 50 ml, you want a pin-hole. And work quickly, I never had a bag split, but it's a tense situation with warm NPS & lye bulging out a polyethylene bladder...

 

[concombres]

It takes some time to get fine tuned but I think it is always going to be a bit of a hastle separating the naphtha layer.

What i normally do is get a container with a thin neck. One with no shoulders seems to work best. I like labware & stick with 50g extractions following cybs tek, so a 1L erlenmeyer flask with a 24/40 ground glass joint on the neck & a glass stopper works well.

The glass stopper is nice because it is inert, but a pain because it requires frequent venting & too much heat during heat baths causes it to get stuck sometimes.
I have also had it shoot out due to pressure & spray base mix all over. Luckily I wear appropriate safety gear & line my work area with plastic. I am much more careful now:|

I pipettes with a 10ml graduated pipette with a hand pump & that requires a bit of skill. Careful, steady hand movements & pressure applied to the pump, kneeling down to get a better view of where the pipette tip is in the solvent & pressure applied is not great enough to disturb basic soup, etc.

Transferring to a large test tube & letting settle while the next pull is a plus but normally the only function is as a container for the solvent because I do not get super close to the basic layer.

The most beneficial thing I have learned is that you do not need to recover every drop of solvent. When you think your layer is getting low enough you risk pipetting up base soup, stop & start the next pull with fresh naphtha. Each successive pull will grab more DMT from the naphtha you did not get & eventually it is pointless to keep pulling, even if some naphtha remains because the concentration of DMT has successfully been diluted to a negligible amount.

Funneling bark & liquid in is a bit of a chore with this setup but much better than trying to separate a huge larye of solvent in a wide container until you pull everything.

 

[null24]

Excellent primer on a seldom addressed skull, concombres!

I'll add that all the things you pointed out, from working a pump to allowing pulls to settle are all excellent pointers and can all be translated to a cider jug/glass baster set up.

Life has gotten easier once I discovered cider jugs.

The issue I've had with them is expansion/contraction from heating soup affecting the liquid level, so let the soup cool to room temp before adding warm nps. Also the caps can leak if the jar is too warm. Otherwise, they're swell! And really cheap compared to labware, for the amateur hobbyist.

Good on addressing the "last little bit" issue too. :thumb_up: Lots of folks get hung up on that.

 

[Psilosopher?]

Since I'm broke as fuck, we have to use "ghetto" equipment. We have a ton of spirit bottles for our extractions. Each bottle can do a 50g extraction very easily. Before our arsenal of bottles reached a sizeable number, we used Voss Water bottles. They're essentially large measuring cylinders (without the measuring part). The meniscus is easy to see, and can easily be pulled with a careful hand. We use a 25 ml graduated pipette with a hand pump, and it works wonders.

For funnelling bark and liquid, it's actually quite easy. You mix the bark and liquid in a jug and stir until the bark is fully suspended in the liquid. Before it starts settling, carefully pour the liquid into your vessel of choice. Not all of the bark will go through, that's okay. Try not to clog the funnel with bark. Then you allow the liquid to settle in your vessel of choice. Once it settles, pour the liquid back in the jug, limiting the amount of bark that goes through. Resuspend the bark in the jug and pour again. It might take a few pours, but it gets everything nice and cleanly. It's essentially what happens in the lab when you're working with very specific quantities of a solid.

 

[3rdI]

The best, but dirtiest way (I hate plastics!) I've found was pouring the soup & solvent mix into a large ziplock bag, which I clipped to a rail, so a corner hung downwards (so the bag was a diamond, not a square, if you get what I mean?)

Have a big vessel and a small one nearby, then snip the tiniest corner off the bag with scissors. The first run will be soup, into the larger vessel. As the changeover approaches, switch in the smaller vessel, and collect clean NPS, quickly.

The size of the snipped hole should take into account how quickly the NPS portion could run through it...! For say 50 ml, you want a pin-hole. And work quickly, I never had a bag split, but it's a tense situation with warm NPS & lye bulging out a polyethylene bladder...

dont do this^^^, this is a horrible way to do pulls.

Chan, if you want to do this yourself then crack on, but you shouldnt be advertising it to people who want a more efficient method of pulling, plasticbags and solvents are not good bed fellows.

i find that pulling is pretty simple. i use a litre mason jar, fill the jar upto the neck with basified soup leaving the neck of the jar empty, the jars i use have a handy little line you can use.
You can then fit about 50ml of solvent in the neck of the jar, this can be pulled out quite easily with a glass syringe, I never use a baster as they are not accurate enough. i also found pulling with the syringe horizontal and pressed against the edge of the jar minimises any soup that may be pulled.
filter then allow to settle for a while and then crack on with what ever process you use next.

 

[steppa]

I'll never ever want to miss this thing again

I believe pulling can't be easier as with such a thing and glas pipette. --> Ebay

 

[Chan]

Chan, if you want to do this yourself then crack on, but you shouldnt be advertising it to people who want a more efficient method of pulling, plasticbags and solvents are not good bed fellows.

Which is why I described the method as "the dirtiest" in my opening line. I have made plenty of posts cautioning people against using plastics. In this case, I was in a "very ghetto" situation. I tested the bag first with pure solvent, and it held. Because the mix was only going to be in contact with the food-safe bag for like 60 seconds, I took the view that the risk was "tolerable".

OM/ॐ sounded pretty desperate, so I thought the concept might possibly be of interest, but I am not for a moment pushing this as the reference-technique for pulling.

Personally, I'd put the risk on a par with eg. THP, and that is "officially endorsed" :? But my go-to is also a mason-jar neck, and I've posted about that too...

 

[3rdI]

Personally, I'd put the risk on a par with eg. THP, and that is "officially endorsed" Confused But my go-to is also a mason-jar neck, and I've posted about that too...

THP doesnt have hot/warm solvent in contact with a plastic bag though, i think the difference between water and naphtha is quite wide.

Which is why I described the method as "the dirtiest" in my opening line. I have made plenty of posts cautioning people against using plastics. In this case, I was in a "very ghetto" situation. I tested the bag first with pure solvent, and it held. Because the mix was only going to be in contact with the food-safe bag for like 60 seconds, I took the view that the risk was "tolerable".

the bag not giving way doesnt mean its not leaching into the solvent. I also do some things that are not Nexus approved but i dont talk about them on here.

the amount of people who have come on here and read one post and then taken it as gospel is quite high in my experience and because of this i think we need to using harm reduction tactics at all times.

I know you have warned against the potential dangers before, which is why i was surprised that you mentioned using plastic bags in this thread.

 

[Chan]

I know you have warned against the potential dangers before, which is why i was surprised that you mentioned using plastic bags in this thread.

Confession of one's sins is a pre-requisite for redemption!

I hoped I couched that post in sufficiently leery language, but am happy to edit it if you think it's still not clear enough?

 

[3rdI]

i think people looking for easy answers wont care how much you point out its not entirely safe.

sorry about derailing the thread folks

 

[pitubo]

Don't worry too much about pulling some base soup along with the non-polar solvent. Collect all your pulls in an intermediate container and let the bits of base soup that came along settle to the bottom. You can simply pipette any base soup from the bottom and drop it back into the mixing container.

When done making pulls, the intermediate container containing all the non-polar solvent pulls can be used to wash the solvent with baking soda solution and with water. This will also clean out the last remaining bits of base soup sticking to the glass. Again, the aqueous bottom phase is pipetted off. Finally, for good measure, add some oven-baked Epsom salts (MgSO4) to dry the solvent. Shake (or stir) and let it settle and decant into the precipitation container.

Obviously, the intermediate container shouldn't be deeper than your pipette is long.

 

[Chan]

i think people looking for easy answers wont care how much you point out its not entirely safe.

They might if they see what it did to me...

So be warned, kids! And apologies also...

 

[Psilosopher?]

Don't worry too much about pulling some base soup along with the non-polar solvent. Collect all your pulls in an intermediate container and let the bits of base soup that came along settle to the bottom. You can simply pipette any base soup from the bottom and drop it back into the mixing container.

I just tip the container on one side, and wipe the little flecks of base soup with a paper towel. Much quicker and simpler.

 

[pitubo]

I just tip the container on one side, and wipe the little flecks of base soup with a paper towel. Much quicker and simpler.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly: do you do this while the intermediate container is still mostly full with non-polar solvent over the bits of base soup?

 

[eastlancsguy]

My friend also found it tricky. Without proper lab equipment (i.e. using basters or pippettes / mason jars like most people do I imagine) I think it's mostly just a case of getting your technique down.

The first time my friend tried it he said it was a real pain in the backside, now he's got the technique down though he can rattle 'em off pretty quick. I think it's definitely something you get better at with practice.

Good luck.

 

[cyb]

Thinner the neck on the bottle...easier the pull

 

[null24]

Or...

 

[Psilosopher?]

I just tip the container on one side, and wipe the little flecks of base soup with a paper towel. Much quicker and simpler.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly: do you do this while the intermediate container is still mostly full with non-polar solvent over the bits of base soup?

I should've used the word tilt instead of tip. I do this in my freeze precip container.

Here's a screenshot of the DMT Workshop to show what I mean.

 

[pitubo]

I should've used the word tilt instead of tip. I do this in my freeze precip container.

I see what you mean now. I was assuming you used something like a jar to collect the non-polar in. With a shallow tray like in the picture, you can indeed expose the bottom and wipe it with a paper towel. Good trick.

Here's a screenshot of the DMT Workshop to show what I mean.

Hey, it's the panaeolus cyanescens grow guy from the youtubes with his unworldly clean kitchen!