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Bufo Alvarius experience
- Thread starter Not Sure
- Start date
cker
Rising Star
My guess is that a documentary on toad smoking is not good for the toads, or toad venom smokers. It's good people are grossed out by the urban myth that the toads are meant to be licked. They are an endangered species in some places. I hope National Geographic doesn't do something that increases pressure on wild toads.
Not Sure
Rising Star
I am not a fan of private clubs and like to share knowledge. They are going to do the show regardless if you or I or anyone here helps. I figure it would be better to put the right perspective to the masses rather than have them find someone else that is not as respectful as the members on this forum.
their idea is
I understand what you mean but I feel ignorance can be a lot more harmful than presenting good information with the right intent.
BTW, how can they be an endangered species in SOME places?
their idea is
I understand what you mean but I feel ignorance can be a lot more harmful than presenting good information with the right intent.
BTW, how can they be an endangered species in SOME places?
cker
Rising Star
Not Sure, The toads are native to southern California and developmental pressure has destroyed much of their habitat. It is illegal to 'harvest' toads from California as a result of shrinking populations. This has nothing to do with any magical abilities but rather the increasing spread of people into their habitat. I can't criticize anyone for sharing knowledge. My hope is that a National Geographic story won't put pressure on these remarkable creatures. From your posts, I think you feel the same way. I fear publicity is not good.
Do you really think National Geographic will do a story that does a good job describing this topic? It's so easy to spin it negatively. Why don't you do the interview and tell them you smoke the toad's poop? Then, only the 'true believers' will bother the toads.
Do you really think National Geographic will do a story that does a good job describing this topic? It's so easy to spin it negatively. Why don't you do the interview and tell them you smoke the toad's poop? Then, only the 'true believers' will bother the toads.
Ljosalfar
Rising Star
Interesting... wish I could help; alas I have no animal entheogen experience. However, I am a great researcher and competent writer... if you or National Geographic can use help, let me know. Wade Davis, an ethnobotanist and disciple of Richard Schultes, is an "explorer in residence" at NG and is almost certainly consulting on the project you mention. He wrote an excellent essay titled Smoking Toad in his book of essays Shadows in the Sun. If you get a chance to work with him... wow! He is brilliant, articulate, and he definitely has his heart in the right place.
Extinction is a process - many species' biogeography is one of relatively isolated populations, and these 'islands' shrink and disappear under habitat pressure, unfortunately. The Eastern cougar may be a recent high profile example.
Looking forward to hearing more - L
Extinction is a process - many species' biogeography is one of relatively isolated populations, and these 'islands' shrink and disappear under habitat pressure, unfortunately. The Eastern cougar may be a recent high profile example.
Looking forward to hearing more - L
Not Sure
Rising Star
cker said:
I am well aware of their status of being endangered and why it is happening. That is why I am trying to breed them in hopes to be able to nurture every last tadpole into a toad. This will increase their population faster than letting nature handle the situation.
I think National Geographic will do a good job if the right people help them.
I am truly disappointing in the attitude the nexus has regarding this ancient shamanic practice. If this place was truly about harm reduction wouldn't the members want to get the right perspective and knowledge out to people rather than shun the practice like the churches do?
I think it is rather arrogant and smug to tell people they are cruel for smoking toad venom. People should really get off their high horse with this subject.
I feel your advice to me about doing an interview and telling them to smoke the poop would make our community look like a bunch of infants.
cker
Rising Star
Not Sure,
I don't think it's cruel to smoke toad venom responsibly. I think it is divine. I don't think it's cruel to raise toads if it is done well. Captive toads might have a better life than those in the wild. I would like to raise toads but reptiles and amphibians don't look easy to care for. I do better with dogs. I have a great deal of respect and I agree it is an ancient practice. I did not mean to offend you and I'm sorry if it came off like that. The poop thing was a joke of sorts and I should have added a smiley face:lol:.
I am skeptical when it comes to this type of story. It's so easy for an editor to decide to spin a story negatively just because they think it might sell better. It sounds like you made up your mind to do this and that's fine. Have fun and do a good job.
I know you can harvest venom without hurting toads, but have you read some of the stories where mis-informed people do hurt toads? Perhaps the stories aren't true but I hate the thought of some idiot hurting a toad in order to get fu**ed up. I also hate the idea of publicity increasing pressure on wild toads. Maybe that won't happen but I thought it was OK to express concern. If someone botches a plant extraction, perhaps they get a bad yield or a burn or make a mess. If someone botches a toad extraction, the toad is hurt. That's worse.
Lastly, please don't blame Nexus for my comments, infantile or not. That was just my $0.02.
Anyway, can I ask a question? You don't think the idea of smoking toad poop is a little bit funny?
I don't think it's cruel to smoke toad venom responsibly. I think it is divine. I don't think it's cruel to raise toads if it is done well. Captive toads might have a better life than those in the wild. I would like to raise toads but reptiles and amphibians don't look easy to care for. I do better with dogs. I have a great deal of respect and I agree it is an ancient practice. I did not mean to offend you and I'm sorry if it came off like that. The poop thing was a joke of sorts and I should have added a smiley face:lol:.
I am skeptical when it comes to this type of story. It's so easy for an editor to decide to spin a story negatively just because they think it might sell better. It sounds like you made up your mind to do this and that's fine. Have fun and do a good job.
I know you can harvest venom without hurting toads, but have you read some of the stories where mis-informed people do hurt toads? Perhaps the stories aren't true but I hate the thought of some idiot hurting a toad in order to get fu**ed up. I also hate the idea of publicity increasing pressure on wild toads. Maybe that won't happen but I thought it was OK to express concern. If someone botches a plant extraction, perhaps they get a bad yield or a burn or make a mess. If someone botches a toad extraction, the toad is hurt. That's worse.
Lastly, please don't blame Nexus for my comments, infantile or not. That was just my $0.02.
Anyway, can I ask a question? You don't think the idea of smoking toad poop is a little bit funny?
Not Sure
Rising Star
cker said:
Yes, Mis-informed people are dangerous. That's why I feel it is a good idea to have informed people working on this project to get the right information to people.
I am not blaming the nexus for your post. If you read other threads about bufo's there is a common attitude on the nexus towards having a bufo toad 'in a glass box'. I honestly feel that the people that like tell others it is cruel to have a toad and or milk a toad should shut up and contribute something worth reading. If anyone has a problem with animals in a glass box go cry about it on a forum that's about reptiles and other caged pets, if you do you'll get laughed out of the forum.
I understand skepticism very well because I usually am a skeptic, but If we shrug it off its in the hands of NG and they may choose to spin it bad from lack of material.
I understand the joke but with the rest of your post it sounded like a wise ass remark.
"I honestly feel that the people that like tell others it is cruel to have a toad and or milk a toad should shut up and contribute something worth reading. If anyone has a problem with animals in a glass box go cry about it on a forum that's about reptiles and other caged pets, if you do you'll get laughed out of the forum."
:? :roll:
:? :roll:
Not Sure
Rising Star
Not Sure
Rising Star
fractal enchantment said:
Perhaps i should have said
'People that wish to voice their opinion insinuating that toad owners are abusive and or cruel should voice their opinion in a forum that would be more appropriate like a reptile or amphibian forum. They would then get a good education about how incorrect they actually are in their assumptions."
Is that better for attitude? i was frustrated before and so my previous post could have came off a bit harsh.
cker
Rising Star
Not Sure,
I would like very much to hear about your interactions with the toads. For instance, have your toads been able to reproduce? If so, what do you do, create an artificial pond for tadpoles to live in? What do you feed them? Do your toads have a habitat where they are outside? Do you use lights? In nature, the toads live underground for much of the year in a state of hibernation. Do your toads hibernate? If not, how do you suppose that affects their reproductive cycle?
I've read about Native Americans having a long history with the toads (but I forget where).
Perhaps you could talk more about the toads with Nexus as a 'warmup' for NG? Nexians do seem concerned about toad wellbeing but it sounds like you care about them as well. I know a bit about the toads but I'd be very interested in learning more.
I would like very much to hear about your interactions with the toads. For instance, have your toads been able to reproduce? If so, what do you do, create an artificial pond for tadpoles to live in? What do you feed them? Do your toads have a habitat where they are outside? Do you use lights? In nature, the toads live underground for much of the year in a state of hibernation. Do your toads hibernate? If not, how do you suppose that affects their reproductive cycle?
I've read about Native Americans having a long history with the toads (but I forget where).
Perhaps you could talk more about the toads with Nexus as a 'warmup' for NG? Nexians do seem concerned about toad wellbeing but it sounds like you care about them as well. I know a bit about the toads but I'd be very interested in learning more.
rOm said:hey NotSure, why not contact Oroc ? He's a journalist and smoked toad venom he hunt in arizona and realease afterwards.
I dunno if you documentary is still actual but a good person, who can speak well in front of cameras about the subject would be him.
toads
I concur. If there's anyone who should be talking about toads in that documentary, it's Oroc.
would you like to live in a closet? that is my whole take on most cases of people wanting to raise toads. If you got a tank for them the size of your bedroom or something to somewhat mimic a natural environment bigger than a 4 foot fish tank than that is awesome. I have nothing against raising toads itself..only when they live in tiny glass boxes comparable to confining a human to a tiny room do I see a serious problem with it.
If I had the space, I would raise toads. I would love to have a big tropical greenhouse full of caapi and other exotic plants, with an area for the river toads and some other creatures. This would be a large greenhouse though big enough for me to walk through and the creatures to thrive in..not like a cage really or a small aquarium tank.
I dont know if I would milk toads in captivity though..apparently they dont produce potent venom in captivity so I would probly leave them be.
I have a thing against aquariums after working in one as a volunteer as a teenager in some deluded fantacy where I thought that aquariums were good things. So I tend to hold a bias these days towards any animals kept in tanks. I absolutily hate seeing them and have made scenes in pet stores before so I probly am not the best person to see both sides of the story when it comes to captive animals..or maybe I am since I have worked in that area.
If I had the space, I would raise toads. I would love to have a big tropical greenhouse full of caapi and other exotic plants, with an area for the river toads and some other creatures. This would be a large greenhouse though big enough for me to walk through and the creatures to thrive in..not like a cage really or a small aquarium tank.
I dont know if I would milk toads in captivity though..apparently they dont produce potent venom in captivity so I would probly leave them be.
I have a thing against aquariums after working in one as a volunteer as a teenager in some deluded fantacy where I thought that aquariums were good things. So I tend to hold a bias these days towards any animals kept in tanks. I absolutily hate seeing them and have made scenes in pet stores before so I probly am not the best person to see both sides of the story when it comes to captive animals..or maybe I am since I have worked in that area.
Messing with Bufo just to get high seems like only something that a person living in the nature would do, just because he has no other "highs". Of course westerners probably try it out of curiosity, but if even slight damage is done to the living frog, this way to get high is just ridiculous.