@ NotSure,
Please, I am not trying to pick a fight. I am also not judging that what you are doing is wrong. Others may have said things that sounded like that, but not me. I do have concerns about someone who would keep toads without understanding there's a big responsibility required to give them what they need to be healthy. I imagine the mortality rate for Bufo tadpoles in the wild is huge. If someone gives them proper treatment, I could imagine the toads could be better off in captivity.
Negative comments I made had to do with the thought of an ignorant or an inconsiderate person who would buy toads without knowing, thinking or caring about the work required to do a good job keeping toads. I never meant to say you were like that and from the sounds of it, you know and care a lot about keeping your toads well. So please, I meant no offense to you. I think reptiles are not so easy to keep and my comments were about the idea of an idiot keeping toads poorly. I think you would agree it would be a shame for an animal to be kept poorly for the purpose of getting high.
I actually kept a turtle for many years. One day I walked into an Asian grocery store with my daughter and they were selling live Sliders for food. I think they were around $2.00/pound and so I bought one for around $2.50 and it stayed in my daughter's room in a "glass box" for around 8 years. It was a very cool animal and I have no guilt at all because it would have been shortly eaten if we didn't buy it.
I actually do have a dog pack. It's not a large pack but it is a pack and there are strict rules within the dog community at my house. If you own two dogs it's very simple, one becomes dominant and the other does what he's told. Whenever there is more than two, the dynamics change. In my tri-pack, one dog is dominant but other more complicated things happen as well. The other two dogs sometimes contest for the #2 spot. The smaller of the three wants the #2 job and the middle dog often lets small infractions slide. Whenever there are big stakes (like a bone), size will carry the day. There's always complex interactions going on that are hard to understand being outside the pack.
As far as me being the ultimate pack leader, my largest dog gives a great deal of respect to me without me even asking for it. He likes order and showing me respect seems to give him a sense of stability. There's much more to say about this, but yes, my 3 dogs practice pack behavior. You should see what happens when they come across another dog they don't know. They act as a tight unit to interrogate smells and body language etc. They seem to like living with me. I often let them run loose in the woods. They could run away any time they want...but they won't. In fact, one might stray off a bit, but they keep constant tabs on where the group is.
Lastly regarding the dogs, these are all adopted dogs. I am concerned about the idea of puppy mills and other negative stories you hear about the dog breeding business. The dogs needed a home and now they have a good one. There may be a better environment for them than my home somewhere, but they like where they are and don't spend time trying to leave. I think they are pretty happy dogs.
On to toads: I did see them at night, lots of them. They have a very cool presence as if they were much smarter than I give them credit. They didn't like me approaching them closer than a few feet, but they seemed happy for us to check each out from a greater distance. I really did like being around them. I wish I could keep them but I think it would be very hard to re-create the environment I saw them in. I'll just visit them when I can.
As far as a hypocrite, you are right, but not for the reason you mentioned. I eat meat and am contributing to an industry that routinely mistreats animals (not to mention the pollution and climate change effects). I've drastically cut down on meat consumption, but I like it and have not completely stopped. Lately I'm trying to eat locally raised grass fed cows whenever I eat beef. It's much more expensive but I'll just eat less. As I said, I'm not judging your toad raising as immoral. I think it's cool, especially if the toads are captive bread and well treated. I am a total hypocrite about animal cruelty issues since I eat agri-business meat.
I suppose you can also call me a bleeding heart animal lover. I work with a local wild animal rescue group that cares for wounded or orphaned mammals. I do that because it makes me feel good to see the animals get rehabilitated. During that process we keep the animals in cages so I don't have a strict problem with wild animals in cages. I even build the cages that keep them captive. (Most animals are let free at the proper time if they seem able to make it on their own).
I do tell my vegan friends that plants have feelings too (but as a joke to get them off my back for eating meat). I raise some tropical plants outside in the summer and I'll tell you, they are not happy when I bring them in for winter. I am pretty sure all living things are connected much more than we know. To me, protecting the whole ecosystem is what's important. Wild animals are meant to kill and eat other wild animals. It's a necessary part of nature. If an idiot gets a toad and inadvertently mistreats it to satisfy his own pleasure, that seems like a waste of a life. I'm not so sure we can say that someone who does that is part of a natural process.
To be honest, you are raising toads and seem to be knowledgeable and good at it. I don't have a problem with that. I don't feel I could do it well and so I don't. I cringe at the thought of an idiot raising a toad carelessly just to get high. I would like to raise toads myself but I am a toad idiot and so I won't. I can't speak for others but I don't think anyone wants to change your mind about your toad raising. People said what they think and I don't think anyone really needs to change or judge your toad raising. I am very, very interested in these creatures because of the contact I have had with them. I'm hoping you will tell us all about them in a way that won't make an idiot want to mistreat toads.
I'm trying to be humble and genuine. Who knows, maybe after learning more about how you keep them I could feel comfortable keeping my own? Some of my comments probably have been made out of ignorance and presumption. If I offended you or made you uncomfortable posting your thoughts on Nexus, I am sorry. I'm trying to move past this and am hoping to learn from you. Perhaps I did 'spew first and ask second'. Can you let that go if I promise to be more thoughtful in the future? Again, I can't speak for others, but I'd like to hear more about your toad experiences.
Finally, it's hard to get the tone of a conversation right with text. Some of my words may not have been interpreted as I meant them. Could you give me a little slack because of this? If we were talking face to face, you would see my genuine interest. We would have moved quickly beyond the 'animals in a glass box' topic (or not done it at all) and I would be asking questions faster than you could answer them to learn about these very cool animals.
Thanks.....cker
