Bufotenin: Cebil or Yopo?

[Entheogenerator]

Greetings, fellow Nexians!
I have been looking into and preparing for my first 5-HO-DMT extraction, and I have a few questions regarding source. I am trying to decide whether I want to use peregrina or colubrine seeds. I understand that they are both reliable sources, but I am curious as to how much of a difference using one rather than the other would make... Many [people] seem to think they are synonymous, and I know that is not the case, but I cannot find much information comparing and contrasting the two species. From what I have read, it appears that peregrina contains a wider spectrum of alkaloids, but I haven't found definitive evidence that this is the case. Does anyone have any knowledge of the similarities/ differences, or even just a personal preference? Any information on the topic that a person more knowledgeable or experienced could share with me would be greatly appreciated!

 

[endlessness]

There might be some big variability depending on individual trees, area where they grow, season, etc..

I have analysed some Anadenanthera peregrina and it was mainly bufotenine, but it might be some others have different alkaloid profile.

I think both of them have mostly bufotenine in most analysis published so far, so you could get whatever is cheaper/easier and test it out.

How are you planning on extracting it?

 

[Entheogenerator]

I was planning on using this method posted by 69ron:

-Toast seeds multiple times

-Grind to a powder, and mix with calcium hydroxide or sodium carbonate and water to make a paste

-Let paste dry

-Pull with acetone and filter several times until acetone pulls come out pretty clear

-Reduce acetone to smaller volume

-Salt out with a citric or ascorbic acid/ acetone solution

-Decant liquid leaving crude extract

-Mix crude extract with calcium hydroxide or sodium carbonate and dry

-Crush into powder, dissolve in acetone and filter out solids, repeat until acetone is
nearly clear

-Evaporate acetone, leaving almost pure freebase

Any suggestions on how this might need improvement?

EDIT: I have also been looking into the IPA/ Bufojam Changa tek, so I might try both and see which method works better for me.

 

[endlessness]

I think even ron himself said that tek was a failure IIRC ?

I'd grind seeds, make paste with sodium carbonate, let dry, pull with acetone, do FASA on it. Then I'd make paste of fumarates with sodium carbonate, pull with acetone and evap (maybe onto some herbs), for crude bufo freebase which you could probably smoke already.

If you want freebase clean crystals, I once asked ott about it and he said best is to recrystallize with ethyl acetate.. If you can get that, go for it!

 

[Entheogenerator]

Thanks! I didn't see that he had said it was a failure, but I appreciate the heads up before I went ahead and wasted some seeds and chemicals. Is there a tek written out for that method that includes accurate proportions? Clean crystals are always nice, but ethyl acetate certainly isn't cheap... Maybe I'll wait and see just exactly how crude the initial extract comes out and then go from there.

EDIT: Would you recommend toasting seeds prior to grinding them, or would you omit that step?

 

[endlessness]

I think you can omit the toasting step.

I'm not sure if there's any written tek, but if you understand the principles, there isn't much to make mistakes. Anyways I'll write one quick tek here.. Remember not to throw anything away till youre finished.


1-Grind seeds

2- Add excess sodium carbonate (1:1 of sodium carb:seed should work fine), add just a bit of water to make paste, let it dry by spreading over a large pyrex dish and putting a fan (you can also put it in the oven on minimum with door open and fan turned towards it.. careful if its gas oven to not blow the flame out). When its gettind drier, break up the little 'balls' that formed in the drying paste and hold moisture inside.

3- Put dried powder in a glass, add twice the volume of the powder in acetone. Repeat twice more.

4- Make a FASA solution by adding excess fumaric acid (maybe a small spoonfull?) to, say, 100ml acetone. Filter the acetone to remove excess fumaric acid (which you can save for using another time)

5- Add the FASA slowly to the acetone solution containing your alkaloids. As you add, you will see it cloud up. Keep adding till you see no more changes, when clouding has reached maximum. Close the container and let it sit for a day.

6- Next day you should see some crystals there. Add more FASA to see if it clouds up some more, if yes, keep adding like step 5 and wait another day. If not, then filter the acetone through coffee filter to trap any lose crystals, scrape whatever is stuck to the glass and let it air dry well for a couple of hours.

7- Again add 1:1 of sodium carbonate to the fumarates, bit of water to make paste, and let it dry like step 2

8- Put the dried powder in a glass, and pull with ethyl acetate (maybe try doing warm pulls and freeze precipitating? Or just evap slowly), twice the volume of the powder. Or if no ethyl acetate, pull with acetone, and evaporate for crude bufotenine. Repeat twice more

Hope that helps

 

[Entheogenerator]

Thanks a lot! I will post my result here in a week or two.

 

[Entheogenerator]

8- Put the dried powder in a glass, and pull with ethyl acetate (maybe try doing warm pulls and freeze precipitating? Or just evap slowly), twice the volume of the powder. Or if no ethyl acetate, pull with acetone, and evaporate for crude bufotenine.

One more question, my local hardware store sells something called "MEK Substitute". After looking into this further and finding the MSDS, it turns out that "MEK Substitute" is 100% ethyl acetate. Do you think its likely that this would contain impurities that could cause problems? I mean, if I'm using it for recrystallizing, that would theoretically remove those impurities, right? I can buy lab-grade ethyl acetate, but it is a lot more expensive so the MEK Substitute would be easier as far as my budget for the project.

 

[endlessness]

100% sounds good, buy it and check if it evaps clean.. If so, you're probably good to go

 

[Entheogenerator]

Yea that's pretty much what I was thinking. Thanks! :thumb_up:

 

[GobblinTorch]

I think you can omit the toasting step.

I'm not sure if there's any written tek, but if you understand the principles, there isn't much to make mistakes. Anyways I'll write one quick tek here.. Remember not to throw anything away till youre finished.


1-Grind seeds

2- Add excess sodium carbonate (1:1 of sodium carb:seed should work fine), add just a bit of water to make paste, let it dry by spreading over a large pyrex dish and putting a fan (you can also put it in the oven on minimum with door open and fan turned towards it.. careful if its gas oven to not blow the flame out). When its gettind drier, break up the little 'balls' that formed in the drying paste and hold moisture inside.

3- Put dried powder in a glass, add twice the volume of the powder in acetone. Repeat twice more.

4- Make a FASA solution by adding excess fumaric acid (maybe a small spoonfull?) to, say, 100ml acetone. Filter the acetone to remove excess fumaric acid (which you can save for using another time)

5- Add the FASA slowly to the acetone solution containing your alkaloids. As you add, you will see it cloud up. Keep adding till you see no more changes, when clouding has reached maximum. Close the container and let it sit for a day.

6- Next day you should see some crystals there. Add more FASA to see if it clouds up some more, if yes, keep adding like step 5 and wait another day. If not, then filter the acetone through coffee filter to trap any lose crystals, scrape whatever is stuck to the glass and let it air dry well for a couple of hours.

7- Again add 1:1 of sodium carbonate to the fumarates, bit of water to make paste, and let it dry like step 2

8- Put the dried powder in a glass, and pull with ethyl acetate (maybe try doing warm pulls and freeze precipitating? Or just evap slowly), twice the volume of the powder. Or if no ethyl acetate, pull with acetone, and evaporate for crude bufotenine. Repeat twice more

Hope that helps

So I've performed this TEK up to step 6 with 60 grams of Cebil. The result is 3.8 grams of beautiful tan crystals. Very dry (not at all sticky) and with a shine reminiscent of glitter sparkles!

I'm really impressed and excited to convert some to freebase and see how it goes ... but since I had such a big yield I figured best to store most of it as is (fumarate = stable) and freebase a half gram or gram as needed ...

Observations

I have no access to MEK/Ethyl acetate/etc because stores don't carry them. After I was done adding FASA to the acetone pulls there was a thick black goo at the bottom of the jar. I mounted a razor blade into a stick (imagine a toothbrush except with a blade instead of bristles) to scrape only the light tan crystals which had stuck to the sides of the jar ... leaving the black goo and some sparse tan crystals in the jar.

I'll probably give the jar a wash and try and recover the last of the fumarates, but I'm assuming 90% of any impurities present are in that goo ... really handy assistance from gravity in purifying this one ... or so I assume ...

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I think you can omit the toasting step.

I'm not sure if there's any written tek, but if you understand the principles, there isn't much to make mistakes. Anyways I'll write one quick tek here.. Remember not to throw anything away till youre finished.


1-Grind seeds

2- Add excess sodium carbonate (1:1 of sodium carb:seed should work fine), add just a bit of water to make paste, let it dry by spreading over a large pyrex dish and putting a fan (you can also put it in the oven on minimum with door open and fan turned towards it.. careful if its gas oven to not blow the flame out). When its gettind drier, break up the little 'balls' that formed in the drying paste and hold moisture inside.

3- Put dried powder in a glass, add twice the volume of the powder in acetone. Repeat twice more.

4- Make a FASA solution by adding excess fumaric acid (maybe a small spoonfull?) to, say, 100ml acetone. Filter the acetone to remove excess fumaric acid (which you can save for using another time)

5- Add the FASA slowly to the acetone solution containing your alkaloids. As you add, you will see it cloud up. Keep adding till you see no more changes, when clouding has reached maximum. Close the container and let it sit for a day.

6- Next day you should see some crystals there. Add more FASA to see if it clouds up some more, if yes, keep adding like step 5 and wait another day. If not, then filter the acetone through coffee filter to trap any lose crystals, scrape whatever is stuck to the glass and let it air dry well for a couple of hours.

7- Again add 1:1 of sodium carbonate to the fumarates, bit of water to make paste, and let it dry like step 2

8- Put the dried powder in a glass, and pull with ethyl acetate (maybe try doing warm pulls and freeze precipitating? Or just evap slowly), twice the volume of the powder. Or if no ethyl acetate, pull with acetone, and evaporate for crude bufotenine. Repeat twice more

Hope that helps

So I've performed this TEK up to step 6 with 60 grams of Cebil. The result is 3.8 grams of beautiful tan crystals. Very dry (not at all sticky) and with a shine reminiscent of glitter sparkles!

I'm really impressed and excited to convert some to freebase and see how it goes ... but since I had such a big yield I figured best to store most of it as is (fumarate = stable) and freebase a half gram or gram as needed ...

Observations

I have no access to MEK/Ethyl acetate/etc because stores don't carry them. After I was done adding FASA to the acetone pulls there was a thick black goo at the bottom of the jar. I mounted a razor blade into a stick (imagine a toothbrush except with a blade instead of bristles) to scrape only the light tan crystals which had stuck to the sides of the jar ... leaving the black goo and some sparse tan crystals in the jar.

I'll probably give the jar a wash and try and recover the last of the fumarates, but I'm assuming 90% of any impurities present are in that goo ... really handy assistance from gravity in purifying this one ... or so I assume ...

What is the effect of smoking or insufflating the crystals?

 

[Jox]

Nathanial.Dread,

member Jamie knows a lot about this topic, check his posts.

I had seeds, and wanted to extract, but after researching and talking to Jamie, I found that is too unpredictable and not worth... Maybe I ll do it in the future...

 

[GobblinTorch]

Yet to bioassay. With the crystals in their current state the only option is insuffalation which I'm not a huge fan of ... I'm probably going to hold off and make changa from the freebase, but I may give them a snort pretty soon out of curiosity ...

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Nathanial.Dread,

member Jamie knows a lot about this topic, check his posts.

I had seeds, and wanted to extract, but after researching and talking to Jamie, I found that is too unpredictable and not worth... Maybe I ll do it in the future...

I know what the effects of 5-HO-DMT are, I was wondering if these specific crystals were active or not.

 

[GobblinTorch]

Well for fear of wasting product I haven't consumed the fumarates. I did freebase about 500mg of them and then laid them on leaf for an enhanced leaf.

It's active, but haven't quite hit anything but threshold thus far.

 

[GobblinTorch]

I wonder if I was to dose the fumarates, what the best ROA would be ... to sort of answer the question of fumarate activity for casual science?

I'm assuming snorting it while on MAOI.

 

[GobblinTorch]

Well I ended up smoking 50-100mg of Bufotenine through the GVG.

I was hasty with my math and possibly made an error with my infused leaf herb:crystal ratio so

I'm not positive I actually measured correctly but IIRC I was aiming for 40-50% 5-OH-DMT with lemon verbena making up the remainder.

It was .8g of Bufo with something like 1.2g herb. But I was in a really sleep-deprived rush to get out of the house with the infused leaf and on to a few weeks of out-of-town fun. I may possibly of only added 0.7g herb ... which seems more likely considering the follow deductive reasoning:

Suffice to say I've pretty much burned through the .8g between myself and my trip companion, with about 1/5 (~.2-.3) remaining. If we rolled a joint with ~0.5g, then smoked the recent dose of .2 - .3, and definitely don't have 1 gram remaining then ... yeah .... writing this down is obviously important ....

My most recent adventure with about 150-250mg of herb (completely eyeballed) led to some pretty strong visuals and a definite "carrier wave" ... sub breakthrough ... But with a BERY PLEASANT buzzing body high.

At first there was a bit of head pressure, but it quickly subsided into a pleasant body effect.

We smoked that dose between two, but I probably had 80%. The taste of the smoke/vapour was REALLLY hot and tasted absolutely awful. My tripping companion couldn't smoke much and ended up feeling nothing bud "uncomfortable body" and she threw up.

I'm really impressed and can't wait to give this substance some more proper (measured) trials, and also combination with DMT. Really curious about rectal/sublingual/MAOI use also because the vapour was such a strong, unpleasant, harsh flavour ....

 

[iracema]

I don't find bufotenine pleasant to smoke as dmt, so I prefer it as a snuff. As jamie said many times, the crude snuff is very intoxicating, but if you do the freebase mixed with harmalas and pass it through a very fine sieve, it becomes as smooth as it can get to snort. I keep some to apply during aya experience to add more visuals, what I call yopo 7 flechas, a 7x snuff made from 60g seeds extract, added to 10g seeds crude snuff.