Caapi brew with pure dmt

[cosmic butterfly]

hey im taking brew with freebase wondering with this method does one need to wait 15-30 minutes to take dmt after the brew? or can i just drop the dmt in the brew and drink? thnks

 

[dreamer042]

You can just drop it right in. :thumb_up:

 

[olympus mon]

As Dreamer said yes you can just drop it in the brew is acidic enough. Or what I like to do is squeeze a lemon over the dmt and drink the shot or put it in the ayahuasca. Although its bitter enough no need to make it worse.

IME-I think the whole wait 10 min for the maoi's to kick in isn't needed nor really makes a difference.
Edited to add- but I use a very large amount of caapi in my ayahuasca.

The 2 seem to absorb into the body at the same rate. It is helpgul in the case of changa. I have taken a hit of pure harmalas freebase 30 seconds before hitting the dmt infused changa and O yea, it makes a difference but I dont notice the same with oral.

 

[obliguhl]

I think the whole wait 10 min for the maoi's to kick in isn't needed nor really makes a difference.

Well, i beg to differ my good man :thumb_up:
If i take it with the brew, i always get a intense but short dmt like experience. If i wait too long, it's mostly caapi and it's hard to "see" anything.

Could be that i'm not taking enough caapi to start with. Perhaps it's just a matter of finding the right balance so it doesn't really matter when you take what.

 

[olympus mon]

I think the whole wait 10 min for the maoi's to kick in isn't needed nor really makes a difference.

Well, i beg to differ my good man :thumb_up:
If i take it with the brew, i always get a intense but short dmt like experience. If i wait too long, it's mostly caapi and it's hard to "see" anything.

Could be that i'm not taking enough caapi to start with. Perhaps it's just a matter of finding the right balance so it doesn't really matter when you take what.

Everyone is different indeed and yes I think the amount of caapi has a lot to do with this. If your just taking the min to induce inhibition yes Id probably feel different since the MAOI wears off quicker resulting in a short journey. This is why I like a hefty dose of caapi with ayahausca. 150g vine to 100g chacruna is my sweet spot but I like to go quite deep. My journeys are 6-8 hours long and I think this is from having lots of caapi in me. Also, I rarely drink less than 2-3 times a night when I use ayahuasca.

So thank you for pointing this out Oblig. I edited it to read IME, It is all very dependent on your dosing and your body.

BTW, So good to see you here my brother. I've been thinking about you wondering where my buddy Oblig is. Cheers mate!

 

[cosmic butterfly]

cool thnks guys, i also take lots of caapi so should be good than, from now together it is not sure yet how true but read in a few places best not to drink anything including water at least half an hour before brew and during journey, for stronger visionary effect

edit: yupp dont think im taking with water nemore

 

[TOXSIN]

Personally I always wait, I capsulate my aya people call this pharmahuasca I guess? I take 3 gel caps forgot if they are 00 or 000 size prolly the latter, but I put 700MG unextracted syrian rue into 2 caps for a toal of 1400 MG syrian rue so far, then 600 MG into a 3rd and pack 100 MG of FB dmt into the pills I take 1 rue cap wait 10-15 mins take another rue cap wait another 10-15 mins then I take the final dmt/rue mix cap and I trip for a good 4-5 hours with nice watercolor slow moving DMT fractals similar to smoked DMT but so much nicer, and smoother. Also I got some experiences with humans having animal like traits like my friends neck extending out and looking almost like a snake/dragon wrapping around his sons neck which was doing the same thing, while he was hugging his son, I felt the love between them it was extremely intense and beautiful, and literally made me tear up from sheer joy. I call it my triple 7 mix since its 700 MG in ea cap, and it works wonders for me.

 

[chocobeastie]

I'd recommend taking it 40 minutes after taking the caapi. That really gives time for the caapi to kick in.

If you are going to combine, or take at the same time, you would want to be using a whole lot of caapi, like 80-150g of strong vine. If you take 40-50 grams of Caapi it will just not work.

 

[olympus mon]

I'd recommend taking it 40 minutes after taking the caapi. That really gives time for the caapi to kick in.

If you are going to combine, or take at the same time, you would want to be using a whole lot of caapi, like 80-150g of strong vine. If you take 40-50 grams of Caapi it will just not work.

Although I personally agree with this its not the case for everyone. I know many people that will enter hyperspace on 60g caapi and dmt. Its very hard to say for each individual. I do like a strong caapi base like 100g min and I usually drink 2-3 times a ceremony. But some people go for hours on half a cup. 100g or more could be way too much for certain people systems.

 

[chocobeastie]

Most people seem pretty good on 100g, many people I know in the west even consider that quite low. In the Amazon, the brews are often much vine heavier than that (I would not know the exact weights though) and people deal with it. I myself have found many amazonian brews just too vine heavy, to the point where you just cannot really walk for 12 hours after ingestion!

 

[The Day Tripper]

100g of vine for me (Strong black vine), is way too much.

That much would probably leave me floored for at least 6 hours, and not able to walk for 8 hrs. Most likely a 12hr expirence as well.

If i took that much vine with 75mg of very pure dmt-fumarate in a shot glass 10m later, i would be tripping VERY HARD.

25g of strong black vine, is more than enough for me personally for inhibition. But i hover around 130lb, and have a very fast metabolism.

If it was me (in the op's) situation, i'd take my caapi first, take a good amount. Grams is not really a good term to use for comparison since its so varied in potency. Just figure out how much gives effects, and how much feels like way too much and makes you purge/immobile.

Bump down your caapi dose to a bearable amount of purging/motion sickness, drink 2/3 of that amount, then take a med amount of dmt fumarate (or equivalent amounts of freebase or another salt) dissolved in a shot glass of water, and chase it with the last 1/3 of your caapi brew 10m later. For me, 75mg of dmt fumarate with a caapi dose like that is a good medium trip. 100mg of dmt fumarate, and 35 grams of that same black vine, is a very strong experience.

The best way imho, is to brew up a kilo of vine at a time or more. Freeze it in like 20-40 separate portions based on the potency of a sample 50g batch of the vine. (heat-seal bags of ice cubes made from your concentrated brew work great here). That way it keeps and wont turn/mold.

Then just start low, and figure out how many melted cubes you need to get you where you need to be without going overboard on the caapi. Unless thats what you want, which has its own merits i'll admit as well.

Easy way to find out how potent your bark is, and be able to accurately dial in each dose, since the brew is standardized to a certain potency, due to it being one batch.

 

[olympus mon]

Most people seem pretty good on 100g, many people I know in the west even consider that quite low. In the Amazon, the brews are often much vine heavier than that (I would not know the exact weights though) and people deal with it. I myself have found many amazonian brews just too vine heavy, to the point where you just cannot really walk for 12 hours after ingestion!

It just depends on where and who you have ceremony with in the Amazon areas. Some healers seem to be using more vine because the price of chacruna is sky rocketing and the plant is harder and harder to find these days. The popularity of on line sales of chacruna has seriously effected its sustainability.

The popular dose in many healing centers is 50g vine to 50g chacruna. Healers would prefer people to drink more times rather than have multiple freak-outs on the ceremony that can be quite distracting and snowballs through the group. Ive seen it a few times and it sucks.

 

[cosmic butterfly]

It just depends on where and who you have ceremony with in the Amazon areas. Some healers seem to be using more vine because the price of chacruna is sky rocketing and the plant is harder and harder to find these days. The popularity of on line sales of chacruna has seriously effected its sustainability.

The popular dose in many healing centers is 50g vine to 50g chacruna. Healers would prefer people to drink more times rather than have multiple freak-outs on the ceremony that can be quite distracting and snowballs through the group. Ive seen it a few times and it sucks.

interesting, i remembre hearing i think from a graham hancock interview or lecture that the popularity of aya was substantially improving its sustainability by mass planting, guess wasnt aware demand now more than supply which cant b good. i also find 100g sort of the sweet spot, could prob get maoi inibtion with 25g, but much prefer the scale in favor of caapi, but then again dont think ever tried black..popular dose u mentioned makes sense now y i need 2 cups of traditional brew, also found here that average dmt content is around 25-30mg: Erowid Ayahuasca Vault : DMT Freebase Content in Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca Preparations, by Clearlight , crazy how some ppl can have strong experiences on 1 cup, that amount for me has no visuals, with pure dmt min 50mg to see something, 85mg and up for strong experience

 

[olympus mon]

interesting, i remembre hearing i think from a graham hancock interview or lecture that the popularity of aya was substantially improving its sustainability by mass planting, guess wasnt aware demand now more than supply which cant b good.

I think it depends on what area your discussing and who you get your information from regarding chacruna harvesting. The men I knew described it as such. 10 years ago he would walk out of town by the road connecting them to the forest and harvest chacruna by the dirt road side. The next year they were having to walk into the forest. The next year 15 min walk into the tree line. The following year close to an hour.
The men now, 10 years later need to bring a tent as the walk takes half a day to find the mature bounty of leaves.
Many of the people I lived with tended to not think long term and plant more Chacruna but I am happy to hear some do.
Could you post a link to the interview your referring to?

 

[cosmic butterfly]

wow that sounds horrible , sry no idea which interview/lecture it is from n wrong of me to name drop without it, seems as time goes by the demand is only going to get bigger, so hopefully the effort to grow more n preserve gets bigger to keep sustainable as well with all plants n trees of the amazon

 

[chocobeastie]

Those tests that show 25-30mg are in relation to traditional ayahuasca brews, of the like which are used by the people traditionally for Ayahuasca's medicinal effects. These are the kind of brews which Terrence McKenna and Ott had in the 80's when they went to Iquitos and were not able to obtain visionary effects from.

What the curanderos are giving the tourists now, are normally quite a lot higher in tryptamines, as that is what the gringos are looking for - the visions. I have had brews from shipibo women which are much lighter in tryptamines and much more vine heavy, and I find these just lovely. And often you will be taken to the degree you need to be taken. (that's just the nature of DMT and Ayahuasca I think)

I've been walking in the amazon in huge areas where vine and chackruna has planted by the people there. The obious value of Chackruna (and vine) is well known and people keep planting it, however, demand continues to rise of course!

 

[nen888]

^..the brews the McKenna's took (and had analysed) had 3-4 times the required amount of caapi..while keeping the dmt at 30-40mg..this (a classic 'jungle' brew) is intensely purgative and visual (complete with deep synaesthesia), however the style of visuals is not the 'standard' dmt kind, but far more photo-reality/dreamlike..and this lasts a lot longer..more like 8-12 hours..
..when i had a chance to chat with Terence he commented on how profound and not simply 'dmt-like' these deep amazonian brews were..they may be a diminishing tradition..
..the more modern kind of brew with less MAOI and more dmt (think santo diame) are less demanding on the system, though arguably not as far reaching in certain ways..
.

 

[nen888]

^..afternote: these massively caapi-fied brews were the beginning of Terence's interest in synaesthesia..Dennis never took as many..
it's Ott who was the real hard-head who couldn't get visuals off them (and/or he went to different curanderos)

 

[jamie]

brews like that go for up to 48 hours in my experience. The main effect has gone for 10-12 hours for me but it took about 48 hours to stop feeling some weird sense of movement and a day for the tracers to go away etc. There was like 10 minutes of DMT like effect and then 10 hours of visions. Like harmala visions but more colorful and overlaid with some fractals. I was so god damn sick every time all night though that I couldn't really pay attention to the visions for more than short periods of time. The nausea for me at that level in just unbearable. I really hate it.

Brews with 6-7 grams of rue were also really long nights where I had to rest for the next day with extended periods of nausea and tracers.

On one occasion with way too much vine(so much that I literally could not walk without the world spinning) the synesthesia was so strong it was just disorienting. I was even experiencing some kind of synesthesia with water droplets in the air and I could hear the molecules in my hand interact with molecules in the air(it was foggy) and it would make visuals of electro magnetic field sort of things. It was not a pleasant experience, I kept dissolving into it and freaking out.

 

[nen888]

^..this is the kind of brew (and tradition) where they really emphasise the diet..
and drink successively over a period of a week or two (with breaks) till you can 'handle it'..
once 'cleaned out' the nausea goes..

for less MAOI heavy brews the diet isn't so important, but i don't think the jungle diets are just 'spiritual taboo' as some suggest..

i'm going to re-ignite the diet debate with a new thread..:twisted: