Caapi effects

[M0K0]

Hello dear nexus,
here are the effects i feel from consuming pure caapi brews and i want to understand why the effects appear.
Probably some members who have more knowledge than me can help me out on this subject.

1-10g caapi:
Very relaxing and calming, a little bit like weed.
Explanation:
The MAOI in the caapi leads to a higher concentration of different neurotransmitters in the brain like melatonin and noradrenaline because they will be broken down slower than usual.
You feel calm and sleepy the next morning.

10-30g caapi:
The effects from above just stronger and also i am in a very pleasant mood the days after the consumption maybe because here the SRI from the THH come into play?
Acts like a natural antidepressant.

50g+ caapi:
All the effects from above and also Psychedelic effects.
When full MAOI is archived the tryptamines produced by the brain will no longer be broken down and will lead to a psychedelic experience, also DMT is orally active at this point.
Could it be that there is really a production of dmt in the human brain and when under full MAOI you start tripping because it is not broken down?

I am realy looking forward to your thoughts and explanations because i dont really got a clue and i am new to this subject.

Have a nice day

 

[RhythmSpring]

I think that makes sense. It's pretty cool. The idea that we're basically tripping off of ourselves. And surely DMT isn't the only psychoactive neurotransmitter we experience when we remove the MAO enzyme. It's like we are experiencing ourselves more deeply.

 

[Sabnock1990]

It's pretty much mostly to do with the other effects of Harmalas, not so much anything to do with the MAO-A inhibition, and there's definitely no rise in endogenous DMT levels that i've noticed, i've dosed Harmalas on the regular, daily/near daily pretty much, since 2012, and in heavy dosages (especially thanks to the reverse tolerance), i've also used Moclobemide a good handful of times, MAO-A inhibition isn't really anything special, it basically just raises Serotonin and Noradrenaline levels (and to a lesser extent Dopamine), this is especially noticeable either when using Moclobemide for MAO-A inhibition, or by regularly consuming the Harmalas and building up the reverse tolerance which cleans up the side-effect profile and thus makes even the heaviest dosages of Harmalas feel as clean pretty much as Moclobemide.

The Harmalas to me aren't particularly psychedelic, they are psychoactive a good bit though, to some extent at least, but certainly nothing mindbending like having DMT in the mix. Here's a good collection of info on Rue/Harmalas - Pharmacological and therapeutic effects of Peganum harmala and its main alkaloids - it also mentions the interactions with other receptors and such. So the effects we get from Harmalas are mostly coming from it's other activity aside from the MAO-A inhibition, in comparison the MAO-A inhibition only plays a small role it the overall effects of Harmalas.

Although i will say that i think it could be possible to perhaps use MAO-A inhibition combined with other practices which may stimulate production of endogenous DMT, perhaps, and that could potentiate things, i'd imagine, or make the chances of DMT being produced perhaps a bit more likely, but sole MAO-A inhibition in itself isn't going to raise endogenous DMT levels, although i wish that were the case lol. What would raise endogenous DMT, or make it more likely to be produced in noticeable quantities, would be increasing it's precursors and necessary co-enzymes for it's production, which i hope in time we will see more study on how endogenous DMT is produced and how we may be able to increase it's natural endogenous production, which i imagine MAO-A inhibition would be beneficial then at the least, if not necessary.

As for some of the effects of Caapi, i think THH could play a role in that it's a Serotonin reuptake inhibitor and can raise Serotonin levels (to a greater degree than MAO-A inhibition, ime). In fact, i find the feeling/effects of THH to be similar to that of 5-HTP, primarily a rise in Serotonin, which 5-HTP was slightly trippy when i first started taking it but since i take it daily (like i do most things) that trippiness pretty much went away after a few days or so, which i've also noticed with L-Dopa too, when i first started taking L-Dopa things got a bit trippy for a little bit but the the trippiness went away and things stabalized. I've only recently (like within the last month or two) gotten into 5-HTP, and i've been mixing that with the L-Dopa and P5P/active vitamin B6 (since it's a co-factor for DOPA Decarboxylase which converts L-Dopa into Dopamine and 5-HTP into Serotonin), and i've been taking it alongside my MAO-A inhibition from the Harmalas and it's actually been a nice combo and apparently i was a bit low in Serotonin for a bit there even though i've been taking Harmalas for years. I have ADHD/Autism, so i'm pretty sure i've been low in neurotransmitters most of my life lol.

 

[M0K0]

Thanks for the reply, may i ask you how you know that hamalas wont raise dmt levels in your brain, i mean how did you measure it?

Im also diagnosed ADHD and this stuff helps me certainly more than ritalin

 

[universecannon]

I find high doses of harmalas/caapi/rue to be quite distinct from tryptamines. More of a hypnagogic effect that really takes some sessions laying still in silent darkness to manifest. That is where OBEs and the more stunning effects would readily manifest for me. I found it combined well with cannabis and took the edge off the anxiety that sometimes comes with smoking it too

 

[Voidmatrix]

I find high doses of harmalas/caapi/rue to be quite distinct from tryptamines. More of a hypnagogic effect that really takes some sessions laying still in silent darkness to manifest. That is where OBEs and the more stunning effects would readily manifest for me. I found it combined well with cannabis and took the edge off the anxiety that sometimes comes with smoking it too

This is my experience as well. Most of my harmala activity, aside from my daily brew dose, happens with cannabis at my altar. Last week, all of my meditations were harmala meditations. The depth of experience is very distinct and focused.

One love

 

[Sabnock1990]

Thanks for the reply, may i ask you how you know that hamalas wont raise dmt levels in your brain, i mean how did you measure it?

Im also diagnosed ADHD and this stuff helps me certainly more than ritalin

I've been consuming Harmalas pretty much daily/near daily since March 2012 when i first stumbled upon them, i've taken some breaks here and there but usually a few months after stopping the Harmalas i'll start back taking them again.

But yeah when i dose Harmalas i take a usual dose (moderate to strong) and just let the reverse tolerance build up, which makes the Harmalas stronger and stronger but also over time they get cleaner and all the side-effects pretty much goes away and then you can really tell what may interact with the Harmalas and what's going on with the MAO-A inhibition, and like i said you can also use Moclobemide to test some things out since Moclobemide is pretty transparent on the body since it's purely an MAO-A inhibitor and Harmalas have other effects aside from MAO-A inhibition.

But i'm also quite familiar/experienced with oral DMT as it took it daily/near daily for 4 years straight in fully immersive doses, but i have explored lower dosages of oral DMT as well, even down to like half a gram to a gram's worth of Mimosa powder in a capsule, which surprisingly even that low of an amount of Mimosa can be noticeable yet fairly mild, so i'm well accustomed to the effects and feelings of DMT, especially it's Adrenergic properties, and i've never felt DMT being in the mix unless i've added it to the mix. MAO-A inhibition may play some role in endogenous DMT but DMT to me seems like a compound that's usually only produced or raised during certain circumstances, and solely having MAO-A inhibited isn't going to raise endo DMT levels, plus people on full fledged MAOI's would be tripping out if that were the case since both MAO-A and MAO-B are irreversibly inhibited/knocked out.

I think in order to increase endo DMT, we'd likely need to give the body precursors and co-factors for enzymes and maybe have some enzymes either inhibited or induced. I really hope in the time to come that they will more deeply study the process of endogenous DMT production and finally figure out what underlies the production process, so that maybe one day we can actually increase our levels of endo DMT, if even for a few hours, that would be hella cool imo.

I will say though, the only time i've ever felt like my body produced it's own DMT, was sometime during my 4 year Aya experimentation, i was sleeping one night, and i had a rather vivid/kinda lucid dream where me and a couple friends were walking down the street from my house and as we were walking i saw that there was like a concert or music festival or something going on, and then i saw a trigger which was some woman riding down the road on a motorcycle with an Ayahuasca sticker on the side, and in the dream i thought to myself, "hmmm, DMT, music, i'm on DMT right now, i wanna dance!" lol, and next thing i know i'm instantly shot into DMT space, it felt just like DMT, it was extremely visual (which DMT for me isn't visual, at least with Harmalas, so that was a surprise) and overall it lasted like maybe 20 to 30 seconds i'd say and then i woke up and was like "holy shit! i just experienced DMT in a dream!!!" lol. It did feel just like DMT except minus any intensity, it was just so smooth and visual and the feeling felt just like DMT. That was the only time i've ever felt like my body produced it's own DMT, but it was a very unexpected gift lol.

But yeah as an aside, i too use Cannabis/Cannabinoids with my Harmalas, for me the two go hand in hand.

 

[M0K0]

this all makes sense and i will further investigate, i agree that the hamalas high is very different from tryptamines and so i may be wrong about my 4 statement, thank you very much for all the good advice, this is really a place where you can aks people this stuff
Im gonna get my own caapi plant soon and do further investigations.

Love is out

 

[RhythmSpring]

I think y'all are fixated on the DMT part of this (I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, this being the DMT-Nexus), but I gotta remind you that DMT is just one of many psychoactives that MAO stops breaking down when you take harmalas. Therefore the Caapi experience may be the experience of this plethora of neurotransmitters. Just because harmalas alone doesn't feel like DMT doesn't mean that you're not experiencing your own DMT along with a bunch of other stuff...

 

[Sabnock1990]

Yeah it's definitely not all about the DMT, personally i rather enjoy the other effects of Harmalas. MAO-A inhibition isn't particularly anything special ime, whether Harmalas or Moclobemide i find MAO-A inhibition to be pretty simple so i pay more attention to the other effects of Harmalas.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I agree as well. Harmalas are just as important to me as DMT, and I tend to work with harmalas more often than DMT at this time.

One love

 

[M0K0]

Im actually not focusing on the DMT part but im trying to understand why caapi gets psychoactive at this high doses and i am talking about pure caapi brews here, if i get you right you have also the opinion that the MAOI of caapi will lead to a buildup of neurotransmitters if it is DMT or other bodily produced tryptamines, which is the reason that it gets psychedelic, let aside dmt and just say that the MAOIs let neurotransmitters build up in your brain wich could be a bunch of neutrotramsitters wich interact with each other of course.
If this is the case, it is a subject which should be further investigated by science because then, it is not the caapi that makes you trippy but the body produced neurotransmitters which seems plausible to me.

What im trying to understand is if there is something inside of the caapi that produced psychedelic effects or if the effects come from your own bodily produced neurotransmitters which build up because of de MAOI in caapi.
Because this would explain things like Kundalini experiences and suggest that other MAOIS could have the same or similar effects.

 

[Sabnock1990]

The psychoactive effects of Harmalas come from the other actions of Harmalas in the body, like interaction with other receptors. MAO inhibition doesn't cause any trippy effects, as is evidenced by MAOI's like Moclobemide, Nardil, Parnate, etc. Harmalas are the only MAOI's to have psychoactive effects, and it's because they act at other sites in the body rather than just inhibiting MAO-A.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Just wanted to add, last night i took 1 gram of Tryptophan with P5P B6 (for DOPA Decarboxylase to turn Tryptophan into Tryptamine) 30 minutes into my nightly Rue dose, and it definitely activated the Tryptamine, lasted pretty much 5 full hours, felt similarly to DMT, had that Tryptamine feeling and i think activated the TAAR1 receptor to some degree.

 

[M0K0]

thank you very much for the explanation, this stuff is very interesting and you are righty other MAOIS dont cause this effects