Calcium Hydroxide or Sodium Hydroxide

[metadimethyl]

Howdy reader,

Introducing; obviously my 1st post here,
this not only to show my interest, but also repay respect to all helpful here. It is nice to meet you on such occasion, thank you for teachings. My excuses for being ignorant and not showing myself with this thread. I'll start that topic next time and hopeful some of our stories will match.

Background:
SWIM recently started acquiring proto materials for A/B. SWIM knowledge in chemistry easily equals to 5th grade (or equivalent first starters). SWIM plans GordoTEK with MHRB.

Scenario:
I heard nasty things about NaOH (Lye), so figuring CaOH2 (Calcium Hydroxide) is to be “a non-perfect, still good alternative". SWIM unfortunately can't find "pure" food-grade (e.g. pickling lime) CaOH2, except technical grade CaOH2. With this, SWIM has CaOH2 in liquid form, for using in agricultural environment, rather than human research (e.g. "pure", "laboratory use", powder form).

Main question:
* which is worse to use in this case scenario? (attached MSDS but for probability reasons, if possible calculate based on technical knowledge/overall)

Follow up question(s):
* if SWIM was to use tech-grade CaOH2 (above), can he convert the substance to powder form -- USING boiling instead of cooking [to put substance in the oven]. Also, what is this procedure called?

* alternative good ways to find food-grade CaOH2, what products it’s used for; I know gardening.

kindly

 

[Xt]

CaOH can be found a hydrated lime, slaked lime or my favourite food grade source... Pickling lime.

 

[metadimethyl]

All of this I know; and wrote in thread. None answers my question.

 

[swimer]

what's bad about Lye? Been using it since start without any problems

 

[ducdevil]

the use of Sodium Hydroxide is daunting at first. with the proper precautions and mindfulness, it becomes easy. face/fume mask, goggles and gloves with some vinegar nearby to neutralize spills is really all you need to avoid a mishap. let me repeat, mindfulness is just as important.

after a couple of times, you will understand.

stop SWIM-ming now, please. :d

good luck

 

[Orion]

I'd avoid boiling bases as a general rule, things can get quite nasty. This is more dangerous than preparing a simple lye solution.

If you are basing a liquid extraction lye is the easiest, simplest and most reliable way to force DMT out of the mixture and into your nonpolar solvent. Always add lye to water, not water to lye, don't splash things around, you'll be fine. Lime is better for dry teks.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Considering the weak solubility of calcium hydroxide in water in the first, attempting to obtain solid Ca(OH)2 by evaporating limewater would be a complete waste of time. Besides the terrible yield, it would also absorb CO2 from the air rendering it basically useless.

If you're determined to use lime and can't easily buy any, it's possible to make your own by mixing a solution of calcium chloride (sold as a drying agent) with a solution of, um, sodium hydroxide. Ca(OH)2 will precipitate. But then you've already got some sodium hydroxide - why not just use that?

(Actually I do somewhat like dry methods using calcium hydroxide )

 

[Xt]

All of this I know; and wrote in thread. None answers my question.

Whoops!

This is why i should not post before my morning coffee.
Apologies.

 

[metadimethyl]

Afaik, lye is actually pretty nice to work with, and quite easy if you want to get things done. I was thinking if such toxicity is good for your health vs tech-grade lime. This is all from third-party sources (nexus, reddit, google), not a personal experience.

SW.. I mean..., I was .. :lol: planing to use such precautions (mask, etc.) with CaOH2 too :d ; safety first, travels second. As for mindfulness, I can't say anything but to agree, it's a key to a lot of things. Thank you for your comment.

Hey Orion, thank you for confirmation. Someone on chat told me that boiling bases is a no-no. I saw some video that creates CaOH2 in powder form by putting it in oven, so obviously, I had more questions hoping up in my head. Your comment means a lot.

Your comment is really helpful and answers all of my questions, thanks a lot. I will try with NaOH as that seems like best option for now. In case I find a food-grade pickling lime, I will use that in the future. Who knows, maybe I'll create one of my own; now that I know how to do it . Cheers.

Haha. No problem, you were just trying to be helpful .

--
My conclusion, as responded by @downwardsfromzero is to use NaOH.

 

[padawan]

Personally, I'm more of a dry tek (or at least crumbly) kinda guy for the initial extraction (using CaOH2) but if I decide to throw in a defat (second A/B) step into the mix (prior to freeze precipitating - ie. take the solvent saturated with freebase alkaloids and immediately convert to an acetate to discard the fats/oils) then I'm happier to use a liquid CaOH2 solution because there are minimal plant solids in the mix and a purer acid soup makes using a liquid form base much easier. The liquid CaOH2 (ie. powdered CaOH2 mixed with distilled H2O) is easier to mix with the acid soup (ie. vinegar/H2O or equivalent + alkaloid acetates) but requires a pipette or separatory funnel to decant the NP solvent. Which is a long way of saying that liquid CaOH2 isn't too bad, so long as the technical grade you mention doesn't contain other nasties.

 

[blue.magic]

As for the calcium hydroxide, I use the aquarium pH adjuster (Kalkwasser). It does not kill the fish so I supposed it's good enough for extraction

I usually prepare 50% NaOH solution though. Of course it requires cooling the vessel and lots of stirring (using overhead stirrer to do the job). Usually slowly and in portions, drop 500 g of NaOH in 700 mL water, then top up the water level to 1 000 mL.

I tried drain cleaner lye but it does not dissolve completely at high concentration. The lab grade lye dissolved and the solution is perfectly clear, somewhat oily liquid.

The solution have to be stored in HDPE bottle as it slowly eats glass. However, the solution is convenient as you don't have to prepare it for every single extraction.

However, the dry lye is the safest way of storage. It won't burn you. You can actually take it in your hand (if you are not sweating crazily :d ).

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

Your tek would have to be adjusted If you use lime.. It's terribly absorbent stuff, and better for a dry-ish tek.

You might want to try KOH (Potassium Hydroxide: Caustic Potash) if you find Lye to be daunting. KOH is a good lye substitute, and can be found in USP grade at any cosmetics apothecary. It's commonly used to make soaps and shampoos and is not a suspicious thing to buy... I'm not sure why, but KOH always seems easier to work with for me and its flaky, dust-free form is easier to work with than Lye.

Always use similar safety precautions to working with lye when using KOH, however! Always slowly mix into water and allow time for the water to cool before adding more KOH... KOH should never be used in its dry form; always make a solution and test the pH!

Happy Trails!

 

[blue.magic]

Yes KOH might have better properties, it might be little more expensive and you might need to use more of it (it usually comes at 90% purity compared to ~99% with NaOH).

In my experience, the KOH flakes dissolve very easily in water, more easily than NaOH pellets, and its solubility is also higher.

I use NaOH in my lab as default and resort to KOH only when needed for a specific application.

KOH might be superior to NaOH for STB cactus extraction, as indicated by pete666.