Can DMT be influenced by black magic to provoke certain actions?

[chris7thless]

Hello,

I have a very serious question that sounds a bit strange at first.

I started smoking DMT regularly about six months ago. In the meantime I have had about five different qualities.

But then there is one product that, the more I think about it, differs considerably from the others. It comes from a German seller on the Darknet.

I noticed the following:
- The content is very much about bodies in human form. I am shown how they are constructed, how they are produced and how they are disposed of.
- It was also about my own ancestry. I was shown my ancestry going back several hundred years.
- There are significantly more entities in this DMT than in others.
- Otherwise, it works like the DMT I know, except that I am often quite tired and listless after the trip.

Now comes the reason why I am creating this post:

- This DMT costs less than half the price of other products. From this one could conclude that it is in the seller's interest to maximize the distribution of that product, not his revenue. He also has only that specific product in his store.
- I have been offered support several times by entities that remind me of the devil if I give them something of mine. However, they have always respected my free will, at least as far as I can tell.
- I have also been offered several times to have my body digitized. I was repeatedly shown pictures of people who somehow managed to enter DMT space with their physical body. They went into a kind of spaceship and came out with a digital body.

As far as the conspiracy scene is concerned, I know that it's definitely not worth giving up your soul to anyone. That's the most valuable thing I have. There are also some statements from insiders who are of the opinion that the digitalization of humanity is a long-term goal.

My question now is that everything I have just mentioned plays into the hands of this agenda.
Could it be that this DMT was somehow black magic influenced to drive the consumer to a certain action?

Thank you for your answers,
Chris

 

[Varallo]

Hi Chris,
I can imagine that it’s a bit unsettling for these themes to have such an consistent quality. The truth is that black magic is not real and therefore there is no magic involved.
But if you’re asking this question, then on some level, you’re considering the possibility that black magic is real. So instead of focusing on that idea, it’s more realistic to explore other possibilities that are much more likely. In my opinion, there are two main explanations for what you’re experiencing.

The first is that your own thoughts are shaping the trip. If you’ve already been thinking about dark themes, black magic, or similar idea ideas then it makes sense that those thoughts will carry over into your DMT experience. In my experience dmt does not just create random visions, they are usually very much related to your thoughts of the day and are in a way a reflection of what you’re bringing into the trip.

The second possibility is that you’re not actually taking DMT, but rather DPT, a similar compound with a much longer duration. A simple way to check is to see how long your trips are lasting. If they’re significantly longer than a typical DMT experience, that could explain a lot. Dpt can in some individuals have more dark themed trips.

If your trips are becoming more unsettling or overwhelmingly dark, it might also be a sign that you’ve been tripping too frequently. Psychedelics have a way of letting you know when it’s time to take a break. It could be a good idea to slow down, take some time to integrate what you’ve learned, and give yourself a few months before diving back in. Often, after a period of rest, trips become clearer, lighter, and more positive again.

Whatever the case, be mindful of what you’re bringing into the experience, and don’t be afraid to take a step back if it starts feeling overwhelming.

 

[chris7thless]

Hi Varallo,

thanks for your detailed reply. I agree with everything you wrote in 1). I know that my thoughts shape the trip and I also know that there is a lot of darkness on this earth. That's one reason why I came to DMT. However, I try not to let it get to me, but rather to observe it neutrally.
I don't necessarily have to stick to the term black magic. It's just a very flexible statement. Somehow I have to give the phenomena a name and I thought that was the best way to make it clear what it might be about.
Lately, I've actually always had two types of DMT. This one, simply because it was so cheap, and then "normal". Today was the first time I really realized that this one DMT always works differently.
But long story short, under 2) you hit the nail on the head. I just took a line, which was super gross and it worked. It shouldn't have worked on NN DMT.

Now and only in retrospect of several trips it’s obvious that these substances were not the same. Also in terms of trip duration.

 

[aethereon]

I can imagine that it’s a bit unsettling for these themes to have such an consistent quality. The truth is that black magic is not real and therefore there is no magic involved.

I am curious how you can state this so matter of factly? I get that this doesn't "prove anything" but in traditional indigenous cultures that have been working with Aya for thousands of years, they do consider "Brujeria" aka black magic to be quite real.

One time I asked my friend if he would ever consider doing Ayahuasca, and his reply was that he would never try it because he had seen a documentary where there were "evil shamans" that "hate the western world" and upon doing the "medicine" they would cast a spell on you or something to that effect. I kind of laughed it off as a type of "propaganda" to put fear into people to avoid "the medicine" but then years later I read a book by Peter Gorman called Ayahuasca in my Blood: 25 Years of Medicine Dreaming detailing his experiences working in the Amazon and while most westerners would think many of the things he wrote are 'impossible' but this is of course viewed from this ehtnocentric viewpoint.

Not saying that you are necessarily wrong but curious how once again you can state this so matter of factly? Is it just because you have never encountered it yourself?

As far as the original post goes, I can't offer too much other advice other than yes it is a bit peculiar. When you say of other products, do you mean other DMT?

 

[Varallo]

Ah okay lets nuance that statement a bit, If we’re talking about black magic as a system of intention or a set of rituals that people believe in, then yes, it’s “real” in the sense that people practice it, fear it, and may feel affected by it, in that sense has cultural and psychological weight. But if you’re asking whether black magic is objectively real, then no it’s not. No one can cast a spell and harm you through supernatural means, regardless of your awareness. This is just not how the natural world operates.

The argument that something has been practiced for decades or centuries is not evidence for the objective reality of something like “black magic” in this context the length of the belief is not a measure of factual truth. There are many cultures that had/have very strange beliefs that have zero basis in reality, I mean there was a time when most people believed the world was flat. I think that traditional wisdom should not automatically translate into uncritical acceptance of all claims made in those traditions.

I haven’t read the book by Peter Gorman, so I can’t really comment directly on that. However I do think that being critical of extraordinary claims isn’t cultural arrogance, it’s what I call intellectual rigor, the same goes for anecdotes and personal stories, however compelling, they are just not proof of anything, besides that personal narrative. I really think that people across cultures have deeply meaningful experiences in altered states but I also strongly resist the temptation to universalize those experiences as evidence for a literal, shared magical thinking.

Finally, your question, “Is it just because you have never encountered it yourself?” rests on a problematic premise. If subjective experience were enough to verify truth, then we would have to accept every mystical or magical claim across all cultures and religions as equally valid and real. I mean personal experience, especially under the influence of Ayahuasca, is not the same as external verification.

In short, skepticism isn’t just denial it’s curiosity held to a higher standard.

 

[hugfortysix]

Could be black magic. . Or the power of suggestion. Probably the best way to counter act any worries like this, is to not buy DMT but make it yourself. And make it with love. This will negate the black magic and give positive suggestions as far as the quality of product goes. There's no way that i would entrust my mental well being and travels to the netherworld to a stranger on the internet.

 

[Ruffles]

In short, skepticism isn’t just denial it’s curiosity held to a higher standard.

Indeed.

If we are assuming the supernatural exists and the ancients held the truth, the nexus would be heretical to the extreme.

Initiates here have no guides and no permission from ritual. The sacred knowledge has been lost hundreds of years ago by the people that inherited it due to our ancestors. We killed and continue to kill most of their population, destroyed their lands, and desecrated their totems and holy places plus we promoted the extinction of some of the plants that contain the gods. Black magic sounds mild compared to the divine vengeance we deserve.

 

[aethereon]

Ah okay lets nuance that statement a bit, If we’re talking about black magic as a system of intention or a set of rituals that people believe in, then yes, it’s “real” in the sense that people practice it, fear it, and may feel affected by it, in that sense has cultural and psychological weight. But if you’re asking whether black magic is objectively real, then no it’s not. No one can cast a spell and harm you through supernatural means, regardless of your awareness. This is just not how the natural world operates.

The argument that something has been practiced for decades or centuries is not evidence for the objective reality of something like “black magic” in this context the length of the belief is not a measure of factual truth. There are many cultures that had/have very strange beliefs that have zero basis in reality, I mean there was a time when most people believed the world was flat. I think that traditional wisdom should not automatically translate into uncritical acceptance of all claims made in those traditions.

I haven’t read the book by Peter Gorman, so I can’t really comment directly on that. However I do think that being critical of extraordinary claims isn’t cultural arrogance, it’s what I call intellectual rigor, the same goes for anecdotes and personal stories, however compelling, they are just not proof of anything, besides that personal narrative. I really think that people across cultures have deeply meaningful experiences in altered states but I also strongly resist the temptation to universalize those experiences as evidence for a literal, shared magical thinking.

Finally, your question, “Is it just because you have never encountered it yourself?” rests on a problematic premise. If subjective experience were enough to verify truth, then we would have to accept every mystical or magical claim across all cultures and religions as equally valid and real. I mean personal experience, especially under the influence of Ayahuasca, is not the same as external verification.

In short, skepticism isn’t just denial it’s curiosity held to a higher standard.

I agree in skepticism, but also, intellectualism isn't the be-all-end-all... it has it's flaws... just because one 'thinks' one knows something, doesn't make it necessarily true. Just because you 'think' that black magic doesn't objectively exist because you are being 'critical' of such ideas, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Once again I'm not saying it does, I'm not trying to make you 'wrong' here, just trying to offer some sort of alternative perspective. From your I'm assuming 'western' perspective (same as mine) you are saying that just because these cultures have been practising something for a long time doesn't mean it's necessarily 'true' but your belief this isn't true is just as valid as their belief in saying it's true. And from their perspective, black magic where one can harm you through supernatural means is objectively real. Look up virotes in the context of ayahuasca and you will start to understand that but i guess there will just not be convincing anyone here because it's required to have a higher standard which pretty much there isn't any since it hasn't really been studied by western 'intellectualism' or 'science' lets call it; well i guess you got me there 'it's not real' and maybe it is, maybe it's not, i just know, that i don't know enough to make either claim.

 

[hugfortysix]

What is black magic?

 

[aethereon]

What is black magic?

Good question lol. But from the wikipedia page:

"Black magic (Middle English: nigromancy), sometimes dark magic, traditionally refers to the use of magic or supernatural powers for evil and selfish purposes.[1]"

 

[Varallo]

I agree in skepticism, but also, intellectualism isn't the be-all-end-all... it has it's flaws... just because one 'thinks' one knows something, doesn't make it necessarily true. Just because you 'think' that black magic doesn't objectively exist because you are being 'critical' of such ideas, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Once again I'm not saying it does, I'm not trying to make you 'wrong' here, just trying to offer some sort of alternative perspective. From your I'm assuming 'western' perspective (same as mine) you are saying that just because these cultures have been practising something for a long time doesn't mean it's necessarily 'true' but your belief this isn't true is just as valid as their belief in saying it's true. And from their perspective, black magic where one can harm you through supernatural means is objectively real. Look up virotes in the context of ayahuasca and you will start to understand that but i guess there will just not be convincing anyone here because it's required to have a higher standard which pretty much there isn't any since it hasn't really been studied by western 'intellectualism' or 'science' lets call it; well i guess you got me there 'it's not real' and maybe it is, maybe it's not, i just know, that i don't know enough to make either claim.

I remember a time when I thought I would know something more about the world only to find out that I knew nothing much at all. I get that you’re trying to keep the door open to different ways of knowing, and I respect that. So your post raises allot of questions, to further dive in I frame them as such:

Where do we draw the line between open-mindedness and simply believing anything because someone, somewhere, believes it?

If someone claims that black magic is objectively real, and can harm others through supernatural means, what evidence would make that convincing? Or is this a claim that’s meant to be unfalsifiable by nature? If so, how do we distinguish it from imagination or suggestion?

Why should we treat a belief in supernatural harm as equally valid as skepticism of it? especially in the absence of testable or observable evidence?

What does it mean to say something is “objectively real” in this context? Are we talking about measurable phenomena? Causal effects? Or are we just talking about the strength of belief within a cultural context?

Can we demonstrate, in any verifiable way, that someone is harmed by a psychic dart from a shaman across the jungle? If not, how is that different from a nocebo effect or psychosomatic response?

If you’re going to say, “maybe it’s real, maybe it’s not,” then what is your standard for accepting anything as real? Do all ideas deserve equal weight just because they haven’t been disproven by Western science? (Black magic has been many times over) What stops us from falling into total relativism, where every belief becomes unchallengeable simply because it’s culturally embedded?

@quantumtantra why not join the conversation?

 

[Exitwound]

More scientific way to approach the question, would be to do:

1) blind tests on yourself, so that you don't know which DMT you are smoking and then see if your experience repeats when you don't know which one you are smoking, with sufficient amount of tests, to make data statistically significant. Will be hard to implement, because by now you probably can tell by the taste of smoke, which one you are actually using.

2) blind test on other people, also with sufficient sample of different people and test rounds. Also hard for obvious reason.

Since it looks prohibitively hard, for anybody to do this, considering what we are working with, I think we won't be able to find answer better than "maybe yes, maybe not" in the near future.

 

[smyle4ever]

From what I get - magic, intention, channeling, etc is just an attempt to direct or give something at the end of the day so its a matter of how you take it in - not merely the "true nature" of what you are taking in. there's a quote that goes something along the lines of "those who believe in the devil, are the devil." which really should be perceived as - worry about X & you will be more receptive to X (ex. is the people who dive into the ego, spirituality, & get themselves trapped in spiritual materialism thinking they need to constantle be less human). I have never had a thought or worried about black magic & its relation to my dmt, though I've had bad experiences which were ALWAYS how i interfaced with the substance. Basically don't trip about it, there are selfish individuals who want to fuck you over but they can't when you are confident in your own navigation of the world.

Hold your ground, have confidence in your intuition, & be gentle with yourself during the process - mistakes are learning opportunities & words are always masking the substance of what you are talking about in this confusing world. Much love friend!

 

[jzatopa]

Consider putting a higher level intention into your work. Something like removing the anti-christ from inside and outside of you, calling in an angel such as Tzadkiel (mercy - like a big old being named Huggles who knows whats up), Christ's holy protection or similar. The intention of this work is so important when you are connecting with God. Much of this sounds like mental emotional challenges to overcome to reach a more heavenly life.

I put a list here - Powerful intentions for the Best Results

 

[modern]

So this topic you can go different ways but if you question it enough it likely will influence you more and more considering you are giving it your attention.

The question on if magic and dark magic is real will go against modern science but an easier way to accept them is what we don't understand can look like magic. Spirituality isn't a cut and dry topic where there is a single answer or path so you will need to research it yourself as deep as you would like to come to your own conclusion.

Be aware there are cultures and religions that circle around this idea of magic and in Brazil and a few other latin countries like Peru there are people that seek out dark shamans to cast curses and illness onto their enemies and rivals. It gets complex because any 'negative' effects in the persons life even if unrelated gets added to these practices. I personally don't fear these things but I've had a cousin that started to mess around with wicca/witchcraft and had a mental breakdown and started seeing demons and painted on the wall a bible proverb. I think its a sign of a mental illness however it also does start to open your mind to different pathways and you notice things you didn't before. Just like many report 'aftereffects' of seeing people or things days after a DMT or other psychedelic experience.

Depending on who you ask any religion that isn't their own is 'the devils work' and some religious intolerance greatly influences peoples perceptions of things. To some in Brasil the Jurema cults or even Daime churches are all dark magic or evil things. Considering the country is mostly Catholic it is not hard to see however many parts have started to mix and integrate the different relgions into holidays and coexist without much issues.

As for dark magic or evil spirits are starting to take hold or influence you I'd suggest you NOT USE any psychodelics for some time as it will only make things worse. If you have any religious believes or holdings consider adding those to an alter or making it a more common practice even if just a daily prayer or meditation.

Remember these are things/practices that have existed for hundred of years and many are lost practices. I personally don't fear them but I wouldn't say they don't exist. This is similar to possessions in the catholic church and they now acknowledge that some were people with mental illnesses however they do hold a few cases as authentic demon possessions.

As for the DMT or anything having any intent... Many religions and cultures in the Amazon have centralized the 'light' as a large part of the practice. The vine or 'strength/power' is combined and the dmt gives the visions. Smoking DMT is rather short lived and maybe too compressed to have much takeaway so maybe consider a different path of consuming it. Also always be careful of alterations or even different compounds. DMT now has lots of derivatives and RC sometimes are sold as other drugs to get a higher price.

 

[quantumtantra]

@Varallo I do agree that we can influence people by distance, for the sake of goodness or not. Besides my experience, hindu literature is full of curse examples by many "enlightened sages".

 

[Here&Now]

I noticed the following:
- The content is very much about bodies in human form. I am shown how they are constructed, how they are produced and how they are disposed of.
- It was also about my own ancestry. I was shown my ancestry going back several hundred years.
- There are significantly more entities in this DMT than in others.
- Otherwise, it works like the DMT I know, except that I am often quite tired and listless after the trip.

DMT is already so variable in its effects, it'd be difficult to pin down any particular cause for unusual trip contents. Like was mentioned earlier in the thread, maybe you have DPT instead of DMT. If you want to be more confident in what you're working with, extracting your own DMT wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[Exitwound]

If you want to be more confident in what you're working with, extracting your own DMT wouldn't be a bad idea.

This is the answer.

 

[Ruffles]

I would say the proper answer to not knowing what molecule you are working with is to do some testing on it. Buy a set of drug test reagents and test what you have.

 

[doubledog]

Purchase from Darknet is not ideal way to get spice

Your mind is very sensitive to even smallest influences by itself. I can easily imagine that somebody could have created mental image where "Darknet/Germans/human bodies/black magic/evil" are somehow mixed together. No black magic needs to be involved, modern digital media are more than enough.

It's also quite common that after relatively short time of DMT use, the experience changes more towards darker, more serious tone, with often scary or unsettling visions. No rainbows and butterflies anymore!