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Can we reduce or eliminate solvent loss in limeteks

Migrated topic.
q21q21

q21q21

SWIM
OG Pioneer
In the last 2 teks I've done (Q21Q21's tek 2) I actually measured the solvent added vs the amount poured off, mixing around and getting as much as possible.
The results (using d-limonene) were surprising and somewhat upsetting the losses were between 65% and 40% (150ml-200mg pulls on 200g bark) for the first 4 pulls then the bark seemed to have hit it's solvent-stealing limit.

In my experience the loss of naptha to the bark is much lower, maybe 10-25% though I've heard of complete loss of naptha to the bark-lime-mush from others.

I read in a post by endlessness that adding sodium carbonate could help this. Doing that produces lye in the mix though which may not be suitable for some.
Personally I've tried many physical methods even getting really messy using a sponge but it only got 5% more, tops. I've heard that completely drying it out can help avoid loss but that take either quite a lot of time (sun drying) or energy (oven on low)

What you can do to help:

So if anyone wants to try some mall scale test and report successes or failure.
Also people with more physics and chemistry knowledge than me could mention some theories (and test them maybe)

Just like the "where to buy lime" thread I will likely not be the leader of this thread due to infrequent nexus visits but I would definately like to see this issue helped or even completely solved.

Much Love, Everyone!
 
Yes, losing 25% of solvent would be upsetting. Did you know though, that lime can effectively be used in a wet tek? Yes, it can. A nexian here recently noted that a mere 300mg of CaOH will produce a ph of 12 in 500ml of water! That is a ph high enough for your needs. So, I believe the amount of lime that your tek calls for is more than enough to base the mimosa and water in the mimosa. Therefore, it is my suggestion that you simply add more water to the mimosa paste to ensure that the solvent has enough water to surf on top of, and the mimosa won't absorb it. Even if the mimosa gets a little sloppy due to the extra water, it would still be fairly easy to separate the solvent from the water and mimosa. Just lean your container to one side, pour off the solvent and water mix in to a skinny container, and then siphon it off from there, and reuse the water and mimosa that might have been poured out with the solvent.
 
Apoc said:
Yes, losing 25% of solvent would be upsetting. Did you know though, that lime can effectively be used in a wet tek? Yes, it can. A nexian here recently noted that a mere 300mg of CaOH will produce a ph of 12 in 500ml of water! That is a ph high enough for your needs. So, I believe the amount of lime that your tek calls for is more than enough to base the mimosa and water in the mimosa. Therefore, it is my suggestion that you simply add more water to the mimosa paste to ensure that the solvent has enough water to surf on top of, and the mimosa won't absorb it. Even if the mimosa gets a little sloppy due to the extra water, it would still be fairly easy to separate the solvent from the water and mimosa. Just lean your container to one side, pour off the solvent and water mix in to a skinny container, and then siphon it off from there, and reuse the water and mimosa that might have been poured out with the solvent.
Click to expand...

That's what I do to minimize loss. The paste in q21q21's tek must be very moist to avoid too much loss of solvent!

And I must add that I feel like it's important to cover the solvent/mix, because if one keeps it 15 minutes including the heat from below(q21 tek) and mixing it in, it's no wonder part of it evaporates. I feel like 10-15 minutes is all that is needed. If 5 minutes would be enough(maybe it is), it should cause less loss probably.
 
q21q21:

How many times would you recommend stirring the naphtha when it is in the mix?
I feel like each stir takes a bit naphtha off... I usually do 3-4 stirs for 5-10 seconds.
 
tele said:
q21q21:

How many times would you recommend stirring the naphtha when it is in the mix?
I feel like each stir takes a bit naphtha off... I usually do 3-4 stirs for 5-10 seconds.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many times people who have done this tek stir the solution when the naphtha is in the mix?
 
Can anyone verify good results, using more water?
Heres what i was thinking when i was reading another thread, "decent yield from shredded"
They were talking about boiling the bark with vinegar, then reducing the tea, discarding the solids, and then basifying and extracting from there...

would this work with q21q21 tech? Boil the bark for a few hours with vinegar, then reduce to say 500 ml or so and then add lime from there? Then doing naptha pulls on the tea/lime mixture?

Because it has always been said to keep the paste from getting too wet, but this thread suggests otherwise..

Any thoughts?
 
Moist mixture will not absorb the amount of naphtha dry mix absorbs. Because the material is already wet, it has no equal amount of "space" to absorb moisture.
 
Right, that much makes perfect sense to me lol, i was more just wondering this:

we have been told to keep the limtech to a moist paste rather than add too much water, in the tech this was noted as being essential to good yield....
Now this thread is telling us, its ok to add more water...

So im just seeing if anyone has experience with adding more water, also, curious to know if boiling it down to an acidic tea with vinegar and water, and then discarding solids, then reducing and adding lime to the "tea" would be a good way to extract, so anyone who could answer those questions, i would really appreciate it
 
Harmalosa said:
Right, that much makes perfect sense to me lol, i was more just wondering this:

we have been told to keep the limtech to a moist paste rather than add too much water, in the tech this was noted as being essential to good yield....
Now this thread is telling us, its ok to add more water...
Click to expand...

Quote from the TEK;

The ideal consistency is not super exact. It must be moistened throughout and can anywhere from thick enough to make a hole in the middle of the mush too kinda like thick pea-soup. Both will work fine. If it is like tomato or cream soup that's too soupy!

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So if you make it like thick pea soup you'll be fine.
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personally I don't worry about 10-30% solvent loss as the tek is so easy and well yielding.
 
Cool cool, sounds like its not an exact science, a little mo water shouldnt hurt.

But what do you think about doing a few acidic boils on the bark, then discarding the soldids and then extracting from the tea?
In theory if you add enough lime it would reacha soupy consistancy anyways depending on how far you boiled down...

Also if you made a tea, and extracted from that, would you still need to use the same amount of lime (say 75 grams on 100 grams bark), or would you need considerably LESS lime to adequately freebase the molecules??

Thanks for your help brother
 
I really like the tea idea since it sounds less messy. I always loose a ton of naptha during my pulls using tec 2 and I always thought it was because of the paste being too wet.
 
Harmalosa said:
Cool cool, sounds like its not an exact science, a little mo water shouldnt hurt.

But what do you think about doing a few acidic boils on the bark, then discarding the soldids and then extracting from the tea?
In theory if you add enough lime it would reacha soupy consistancy anyways depending on how far you boiled down...

Also if you made a tea, and extracted from that, would you still need to use the same amount of lime (say 75 grams on 100 grams bark), or would you need considerably LESS lime to adequately freebase the molecules??

Thanks for your help brother
Click to expand...

I have never tried this myself, but it probably should work. It's done with lye, then why not with lime, too...

I would do three acid boils, for example here are some boiling instructions:

Marsofold's tek - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me wiki.dmt-nexus.me

I would use the same amount of lime. But we need more experienced answer here.

However, I am not 100% sure about this tecnique and how it will turn out, so I recommend you do a small test with a 30-100g of bark and report back to us.

I really like the tea idea since it sounds less messy. I always loose a ton of naptha during my pulls using tec 2 and I always thought it was because of the paste being too wet.
Click to expand...

Dry mixture will absorb more naphtha... Even if it's wet, part of it can still evaporate because the naphtha should be warm. I recommend covering up the mixture between naphtha stirrings.
 
When someone tried to recover lost solvent by adding water to the mush AFTER solvent had been added and pured off it resulted in a serious emulsion problem so don't make that misstake.
Someone uses a pickle bucket(HDPE2) for Q21s' tek and after removing the solvent this person then picks up the bucket with both hands holding it from the top and spends some time shaking the bucket back and forth in quick short rocking/swinging motions. This always causes alot more solvent to eventualy come to the top out of the mud.
The solvent is pured off after a few minutes of this and then shaken again, ect. untill satisfied with the amount regained.
Can be tedious work though. I've always thought a hopper or a jogging machine from a bindery would be nice to have in assisting with solvent recovery.
I don't mind the loss of solvent but I can't help wondering just what the loss of yeild is as a result.
 
YTXian said:
When someone tried to recover lost solvent by adding water to the mush AFTER solvent had been added and pured off it resulted in a serious emulsion problem so don't make that misstake.
Someone uses a pickle bucket(HDPE2) for Q21s' tek and after removing the solvent this person then picks up the bucket with both hands holding it from the top and spends some time shaking the bucket back and forth in quick short rocking/swinging motions. This always causes alot more solvent to eventualy come to the top out of the mud.
The solvent is pured off after a few minutes of this and then shaken again, ect. untill satisfied with the amount regained.
Can be tedious work though. I've always thought a hopper or a jogging machine from a bindery would be nice to have in assisting with solvent recovery.
I don't mind the loss of solvent but I can't help wondering just what the loss of yeild is as a result.
Click to expand...

That's a good tip, thanks... So it works with naphtha too?

I have also wondered if there are loss of yield due to the solvent loss, but I've also thought that if the solvent remains in the bark mixture, then I think the DMT remained should be pulled out with the next pulls. Any thoughts on this?
 
This works with both naphtha and xylene for sure. With xylene someone likes to use FASA to percipitate fumarate and then convert to freebase if so desired (someone simply refuses to evaporate xylene as it is smelly and wasteful). This person knows when the bark is about done because that last bit of recovered xylene yeilds white needle-like fumarates plus a yellow/orange honey-like substance that when dried turns cloudy and waxy. Seems to be DMT but is orange when freebased and unlike freebaseDMT it can be smoked slowly, hit after hit and you'll trip more and more! Smells and tastes diffrent too. Seems to be mostly DMT though.

As for the solvent loss=DMT loss(?)...We're pretty much on the same page; eventualy almost all will be pulled through multiple solvent extractions regardless of whether or not some solvent remaines in the bark-mud.

However; someone says they can't recall ever having extracted the above mentioned honey-like substance with out xylene (no suprise there) or without shaking/vibrating the mud alot to recover the solvent that is really soaked in.

Also I was asked by someone to mention that:

Muratic acid instead of acetic acid(vinegar) or, a combination of the two, seems to yeild a stronger product. I don't know why but that's someones observation.


Someone is currently conducting experimentation to determine if STB yeilds more than A+B, if muratic acid in an A+B yeilds more than vinegar in an A+B and if purple/pink Jurema root bark (from Brazil) yeilds any more than mexican, brown, Mimosa Teniflura (sp?) root bark.
 
YTXian said:
Muratic acid instead of acetic acid(vinegar) or, a combination of the two, seems to yeild a stronger product. I don't know why but that's someones observation.


Someone is currently conducting experimentation to determine if STB yeilds more than A+B, if muratic acid in an A+B yeilds more than vinegar in an A+B and if purple/pink Jurema root bark (from Brazil) yeilds any more than mexican, brown, Mimosa Teniflura (sp?) root bark.
Click to expand...

IF the product is white, I don't know how it can be any stronger... I've never heard of "more potent DMT".

I tried mexican rootbark which was supposed to be high quality from maya etnobotanicals, and it was really low yielding with q21's tek... About 0,5%.
 
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