Can you get lye in your DMT crystals?

[cinderblock]

EW's tek employs lye twice. Once during the preparation, and then once again during the second part (what he calls mini-AB).

I notice there's a strong emphasis on siphoning all of the naphtha to make sure you collect your DMT that's enriched in it. But by siphoning so close to the border of the lye/acid/rootbark soup, you also risk picking up some of the lye, don't you?

In other words, is it better to just play it safe and not be so greedy with the siphoning of naphtha? You may end up getting lye in the soup, right? Or is there some scientific reason why this is not possible?

For example with naptha, I would assume that if there was any naptha trapped in the crystals, the crystals would probably melt as it comes up to room temperature after freeze-precipitating.

 

[TGO]

Hey man, I put this in your other thread too. I hope it helps.

Lye is water soluble, but not very soluble at all in naphtha, so as long as you keep all the water out of your collection jar, there will not be any lye in your freeze precip.

From this thread

Basically, lye doesn't like to mix in with the Naphtha. So as long as you are careful, you should be fine. Alternatively, if you are still worried about lye contamination you can always do a Recrystallization to remove impurities. In fact, a Re-x is commonplace just to make sure your product is nice and clean. You can re-x several times.

 

[cinderblock]

Isn't naphtha used to recrystalize at the end of the teks?

Is heptane that much better?

I did a search, and someone said naphtha and heptane are very similar. Heptane's apparently better for recrystalization, though. But I've yet to read a tek that employs it for recrystalization.

I also read lye evaporates under high heat, so the chances of ingesting it is low? Although what is meant by "high heat," is not clarified. So do you mean as soon as you light up the crystals, it's gonna evaporate into thin air?

I read the recrystalization page you linked me to, and it seems different from what the conventional teks tell you to do for "recrystalization." Is there a reason why nobody uses the heptane recrystalization to finish their DMT tek? Is it because everyone's lazy? Or am I the one overreacting?

In my search, I also stumbled upon a sodium carbonate wash. Seems like a never-ending maze of rabbit holes.

 

[TGO]

Yep, you can use Naphtha or Heptane for recrystallization. Heptane is more selective so it is ideal for this process as it pulls DMT a bit better than Naphtha (leaving behind more impurities). Or You can do a sodium carbonate wash. These are all just different options for "cleaning" your DMT.

I would pick one and try it. Then you can try other methods and find what works best for you. Its all about experimenting and finding your own personal work flow.

Also, I would not take a chance on accidentally smoking lye. Better to clean your product and be absolutely sure that there is no lye leftover before ingesting.

You may just be over thinking this a bit, man! :d

However, there is nothing wrong with being thorough!

:thumb_up: :thumb_up:

 

[cinderblock]

Yep, you can use Naphtha or Heptane for recrystallization. Heptane is more selective so it is ideal for this process as it pulls DMT a bit better than Naphtha (leaving behind more impurities). Or You can do a sodium carbonate wash. These are all just different options for "cleaning" your DMT.

I would pick one and try it. Then you can try other methods and find what works best for you. Its all about experimenting and finding your own personal work flow.

Also, I would not take a chance on accidentally smoking lye. Better to clean your product and be absolutely sure that there is no lye leftover before ingesting.

You may just be over thinking this a bit, man! :d

However, there is nothing wrong with being thorough!

:thumb_up: :thumb_up:

May I ask you which process you use to clean up your DMT?

I think I'm leaning on a sodium carbonate wash using the following tek...

So basically, after the mini-AB in Earthwalker's tek... instead of pre-evaporation + freeze-precipitation, you would...

Add anywhere in between a pinch to 5 grams of sodium carbonate (yes, doesnt matter... All that is necessary is for it to be a basic solution) to 100ml clean water.

Add your spice-containing solvent and the sodium carbonate solution together in a container. Mix/shake/whatever (emulsions will not form).

Separate the solvent from the sodium carbonate solution using pippette/turkey baster/syphon/separatory funnel. One can repeat steps 2-4 if desired, but not strictly necessary

Freeze precipitate or evaporate to retrieve your DMT

Remember that regardless of washing, its still very important to make sure there are no solvent traces in your spice, which can be done with thorough air drying, or redissolving your dmt in a non-toxic (or less toxic) solvent like ethanol, or pure IPA/Acetone, and evapping that again"

And this sodium carbonate wash tek recommends you also take a whole nother step to make sure there are no solvent traces. So after freeze precipitation, you would redissolve the DMT crystals into a non-toxic solvent. If you use ethanol, would you happen to know how much must be used? I keep reading with cleaning processes, that if you use too much of whatever agent/ingredient, it could reduce your yield.

 

[1ce]

Yes, you can absolutely get lye in your precipitate. It's fine to get a little basic water with the naptha, was the naptha with distilled water afterwords to remove these contaminants.

 

[cinderblock]

Yes, you can absolutely get lye in your precipitate. It's fine to get a little basic water with the naptha, was the naptha with distilled water afterwords to remove these contaminants.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I quite got that.

So you're saying it's okay if there's a bit of "basic water," which I assume is the rootbark/lye soup.

But then you add that I should use naphtha and distilled water to remove the lye??

 

[1ce]

Yes, you can absolutely get lye in your precipitate. It's fine to get a little basic water with the naptha, was the naptha with distilled water afterwords to remove these contaminants.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I quite got that.

So you're saying it's okay if there's a bit of "basic water," which I assume is the rootbark/lye soup.

But then you add that I should use naphtha and distilled water to remove the lye??

Once you siphon off the naptha, wash the naptha (by mixing) with distilled water, this will help removr water soluble impurities like lye from your solvent.

Since you wash your solvent, trace amounts of basic water aren't a big deal since you will be cleaning it up.

 

[cinderblock]

Yes, you can absolutely get lye in your precipitate. It's fine to get a little basic water with the naptha, was the naptha with distilled water afterwords to remove these contaminants.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I quite got that.

So you're saying it's okay if there's a bit of "basic water," which I assume is the rootbark/lye soup.

But then you add that I should use naphtha and distilled water to remove the lye??

Once you siphon off the naptha, wash the naptha (by mixing) with distilled water, this will help removr water soluble impurities like lye from your solvent.

Since you wash your solvent, trace amounts of basic water aren't a big deal since you will be cleaning it up.

You can wash it with distilled water?

I'm not clear on this method. Do you have a tek for it? The only washing method I know of, involves sodium carbonate or ethanol... ??

And could you clarify what you mean by "basic water?" Do you mean the rootbark/lye soup?

 

[3rdI]

hello cinderblock

if you are worried about these contaminates then you could just use a tek that doesnt use naphtha or lye

 

[cinderblock]

hello cinderblock

if you are worried about these contaminates then you could just use a tek that doesnt use naphtha or lye

Well I decided to go with acacia, but the only foodgrade tek I've been able to find was for mimosa (Q21). I understand it can be tweaked for acacia, but I figured I shouldn't deviate too far from existing teks.

I've never extracted DMT before, so I figured I'd go with a tek that's popular, so there are more people to ask if something goes wrong.

 

[3rdI]

i think Q21 tek will be fine with acacia. might just need a miniA/B at the end.

 

[cinderblock]

i think Q21 tek will be fine with acacia. might just need a miniA/B at the end.

Hmm... I am not sure how to perform a mini A/B without the use of lye and naphtha. Is there a tek for this? I know EW performs a mini A/B for his acacia tek, but it utilized lye and naphtha.

 

[3rdI]

good point, sodium carb might work but im not sure.

 

[TGO]

Yep, you can use Naphtha or Heptane for recrystallization. Heptane is more selective so it is ideal for this process as it pulls DMT a bit better than Naphtha (leaving behind more impurities). Or You can do a sodium carbonate wash. These are all just different options for "cleaning" your DMT.

I would pick one and try it. Then you can try other methods and find what works best for you. Its all about experimenting and finding your own personal work flow.

Also, I would not take a chance on accidentally smoking lye. Better to clean your product and be absolutely sure that there is no lye leftover before ingesting.

You may just be over thinking this a bit, man! :d

However, there is nothing wrong with being thorough!

:thumb_up: :thumb_up:

May I ask you which process you use to clean up your DMT?

I think I'm leaning on a sodium carbonate wash using the following tek...

So basically, after the mini-AB in Earthwalker's tek... instead of pre-evaporation + freeze-precipitation, you would...

Add anywhere in between a pinch to 5 grams of sodium carbonate (yes, doesnt matter... All that is necessary is for it to be a basic solution) to 100ml clean water.

Add your spice-containing solvent and the sodium carbonate solution together in a container. Mix/shake/whatever (emulsions will not form).

Separate the solvent from the sodium carbonate solution using pippette/turkey baster/syphon/separatory funnel. One can repeat steps 2-4 if desired, but not strictly necessary

Freeze precipitate or evaporate to retrieve your DMT

Remember that regardless of washing, its still very important to make sure there are no solvent traces in your spice, which can be done with thorough air drying, or redissolving your dmt in a non-toxic (or less toxic) solvent like ethanol, or pure IPA/Acetone, and evapping that again"

And this sodium carbonate wash tek recommends you also take a whole nother step to make sure there are no solvent traces. So after freeze precipitation, you would redissolve the DMT crystals into a non-toxic solvent. If you use ethanol, would you happen to know how much must be used? I keep reading with cleaning processes, that if you use too much of whatever agent/ingredient, it could reduce your yield.

Here is my process:

After the DMT is transferred to the acidic solution I basify as stated in the tek (step 5) then mix and let the solution separate several times. Then Proceed to pull with Naphtha again. Again, this step is to remove plant fats and oils and is not for removing lye from the end product.

I do 4-6 pulls on the re-basified liquid. Combine all pulls and freeze precip.

Gather all crystals and/or goo and dissolve in 30-40ml warm naphtha (via warm-ish water bath). There should be some impurities that settle and won't dissolve. Carefully decant or siphon the liquid leaving the gunk/impurities behind. Save the liquid. Repeat a couple times to ensure all the DMT has been pulled from the impurities. Take all the saved liquid and freeze precip again. Discard any gunk.

That should purify your product. If you have heptane on hand, you can do the above steps (starting at "gather all the crystals..." ) after a re-x with naphtha. Or you can just re-x with heptane a couple times.

If you want to do a sodium carbonate wash as well look HERE!

I hope this helps, man. But hey, check out the FAQ. Most of the answers to these questions can be found there or somewhere among the thousands of threads. Have a good one!

 

[cinderblock]

Here is my process:

After the DMT is transferred to the acidic solution I basify as stated in the tek (step 5) then mix and let the solution separate several times. Then Proceed to pull with Naphtha again. Again, this step is to remove plant fats and oils and is not for removing lye from the end product.

I do 4-6 pulls on the re-basified liquid. Combine all pulls and freeze precip.

Gather all crystals and/or goo and dissolve in 30-40ml warm naphtha (via warm-ish water bath). There should be some impurities that settle and won't dissolve. Carefully decant or siphon the liquid leaving the gunk/impurities behind. Save the liquid. Repeat a couple times to ensure all the DMT has been pulled from the impurities. Take all the saved liquid and freeze precip again. Discard any gunk.

That should purify your product. If you have heptane on hand, you can do the above steps (starting at "gather all the crystals..." ) after a re-x with naphtha. Or you can just re-x with heptane a couple times.

If you want to do a sodium carbonate wash as well look HERE!

I hope this helps, man. But hey, check out the FAQ. Most of the answers to these questions can be found there or somewhere among the thousands of threads. Have a good one!

Alright, so I read your process, and it's the same thing as what EW does in his ACRB tek. After the DMT is transferred to the acid, he adds the lye to basify, and then he adds the hot naphtha and starts stirring/mixing/shaking, and then separating 4 times. And then he pulls it 4-6 times.

1) Pretty much what you described, unless I'm mistaken? Your description was clearer though, and I really do appreciate that.

2) While this process certainly helps to purify the DMT, I don't think it's as effective as the sodium carbonate wash, right? Does it matter if you wash your DMT your way (naphtha) or by sodium carbonate? Obviously they're both a way of washing, but I guess sodium carbonate is considered safer. It's considered foodgrade, unless I'm mistaken.

Thanks, the link with the sodium carbonate wash, is what I posted in my original post.

BTW, in this same link, it says you can make sure that there aren't any solvent traces (naphtha in this case) by either air drying or dissolving your crystals in ethanol or acetone or IPA. So far, I've come across some conflicting reports on the use of acetone or ammonia. There now seems to be a movement against it.

3) My question is, when it says you can "air dry," does it count "freeze precipitation?" Or is it literally telling you to let it sit beside a window with the fan turned toward it? I'm assuming it's discounting freeze precipitation, though, right? Why else would it say that you can clean up the DMT of solvent by either "air drying" or dissolving it in ethanol? How else would you recrystalize, anyway? Isn't air drying a given? That's a fundamental step of making DMT crystals. So I'm assuming it's discouraging freeze precipitation. Am I right in thinking this?

 

[TGO]

Yep, I follow EW's Tek pretty much to a T he just words it a bit funny sometimes. You can re-x and then wash with sodium carb. Or just wash with sodium carb. You can evap or freeze precip. Either way it will need to dry to get rid of any remaining solvent traces, so yes that is a given.

I'm not 100% sure why but I would not use ammonia. That seems to be the current general consensus.

Also, unless I am mistaken, the sodium carb wash will not only wash it but it will free base it for smoking so I would do this as the last step before drying.

Sorry can't give a more in depth answer right now, I'm at work and having to post with my phone...

 

[cinderblock]

Yep, I follow EW's Tek pretty much to a T he just words it a bit funny sometimes. You can re-x and wash with sodium carb. Or just wash with sodium carb. You can evap or freeze precip. Either way it will need to dry to get rid of any remaining solvent traces, so yes that is a given.

I'm not 100% sure why but I would not use ammonia. That seems to be the current general consensus.

Also, unless I am mistaken, the sodium carb wash will not only wash it but it will free base it for smoking so I would do this as the last step before drying.

Sorry can't give a more in depth answer right now, I'm at work and having to post with my phone...

It's gonna turn it into freebase aka goo?

So if you want it to be 100% safe, you need to go freebase, it seems... ?

I've read that the solvent can still get trapped in the crystals. That's why they recommend EITHER 1) air drying or 2) ethanol/acetone/IPA process. Again, I'm very confused by this. Why even suggest the ethanol/acetone/IPA, when it's a given that we're all gonna air dry (evap or freeze precip)? Why would ethanol/acetone/IPA be necessary, when 100% of DMT teks are air dried? I'm pretty sure whoever wrote that, intended to recommend ethanol/acetone/IPA regardless of air drying... I just don't see why else he/she would've felt compelled to add that.

 

[endlessness]

Unless you bring across when separating layers you don't let it settle and accidentally bring some emulsion or the lower acqueous layer with your pull, you won't get any lye. But if you are worried your separation wasn't so clean or you can clearly see you got a bit of the acqueous liquid across, you can do a sodium carbonate wash.

A recrystallization on your final product will also work well to remove lye since it would stay at the bottom together with the rest of the impurities, and you'd decant/pipette the clear layer away from that.

As for the tek, which acacia are you extraction from? If it's confusa, you may have a significant amount of NMT which will make crystallization harder in some cases and you might get a goo. But it is also equally active, just weigh the dose of goo and infuse into a proportionate amount of herbs.

Relevant link:

FAQ - DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

 

[cinderblock]

Unless you bring across when separating layers you don't let it settle and accidentally bring some emulsion or the lower acqueous layer with your pull, you won't get any lye. But if you are worried your separation wasn't so clean or you can clearly see you got a bit of the acqueous liquid across, you can do a sodium carbonate wash.

A recrystallization on your final product will also work well to remove lye since it would stay at the bottom together with the rest of the impurities, and you'd decant/pipette the clear layer away from that.

As for the tek, which acacia are you extraction from? If it's confusa, you may have a significant amount of NMT which will make crystallization harder in some cases and you might get a goo. But it is also equally active, just weigh the dose of goo and infuse into a proportionate amount of herbs.

Relevant link:

FAQ - DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Thanks.

The way to prevent emulsions is to not shake the bottle too vigorously, right? I'll be using a 2L jug, so I'll be stirring.

I'm planning on using confusa for the ACRB tek by Earthwalker.

He has a recrystallization step in his mini-AB, right? He recrystalizes with naphtha, though.