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Can you improve my ATB tek acacia ? heat/quantity concern

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Perth Guy

Rising Star
there was an extraction done recently and the final product wasn't as strong as one would expect.. I am OK with not getting crystals.. my 2 concerns are

1. maybe I heated it to much and the alkaloids were damaged? (lid was on the whole time so minimal evap)
2. Do the quantities sound about right?

If anyone can pick any issues/flaws or improvement ideas/tweaks it would be greatly appreciated!

~200g wet Phylodes and stems (acacia acuminate broad leaf)
put into 1.5L distilled water, 250ml white cleaning vinegar added
heated this for an hour or 2 on low (it may have got close to boiling but didn't reach it) I was hoping the heat would help break down the whole leaves and stems a bit

This was put into a croc pop (slow cooker), 500ml distilled water with 250g Lye was added - product went instantly black.
This was set on Low for 30 minutes, turned off for 30 minutes, put back on low for 30 minutes, alternating for around 3 - 4 hours.

Phylodes and stems had broken up fully at the end.

Liquid strained off and there were 5 Naphtha washes (shellite) around 400ml in total - half was evaporated at room temp until when I blew on it there was a white cloudiness. This was put into the freezer for 18 hours and no crystals formed and due to comments about filtering I did not filter it (goo getting stuck in filters) so I just evaporated the naphtha at room temp and ended up with an oily goo



I was happy with the end product - personal tests were very nice, but it was a lot less potent (100mg having the same effect as around 30mg of pure crystal DMT).

If anyone has any useful comments or suggestions or if it sounds about right I'd love to hear from someone experienced.

I would prefer to use the same products if possible (white vinegar, distilled water, lye and colemans shellite) unless there is a very compelling reason to go buy different products
 
Perth Guy said:
there was an extraction done recently and the final product wasn't as strong as one would expect.. I am OK with not getting crystals.. my 2 concerns are

1. maybe I heated it to much and the alkaloids were damaged? (lid was on the whole time so minimal evap)
2. Do the quantities sound about right?

If anyone can pick any issues/flaws or improvement ideas/tweaks it would be greatly appreciated!

~200g wet Phylodes and stems (acacia acuminate broad leaf)
put into 1.5L distilled water, 250ml white cleaning vinegar added
heated this for an hour or 2 on low (it may have got close to boiling but didn't reach it) I was hoping the heat would help break down the whole leaves and stems a bit

This was put into a croc pop (slow cooker), 500ml distilled water with 250g Lye was added - product went instantly black.
This was set on Low for 30 minutes, turned off for 30 minutes, put back on low for 30 minutes, alternating for around 3 - 4 hours.

Phylodes and stems had broken up fully at the end.

Liquid strained off and there were 5 Naphtha washes (shellite) around 400ml in total - half was evaporated at room temp until when I blew on it there was a white cloudiness. This was put into the freezer for 18 hours and no crystals formed and due to comments about filtering I did not filter it (goo getting stuck in filters) so I just evaporated the naphtha at room temp and ended up with an oily goo



I was happy with the end product - personal tests were very nice, but it was a lot less potent (100mg having the same effect as around 30mg of pure crystal DMT).

If anyone has any useful comments or suggestions or if it sounds about right I'd love to hear from someone experienced.

I would prefer to use the same products if possible (white vinegar, distilled water, lye and colemans shellite) unless there is a very compelling reason to go buy different products


Many have stated broad leaf is not very potent to begin with. That, coupled with harvest timing, can have profound effects on end strength.

learned one thing with reduced strength when it comes to the process itself: its that there is such a thing has too much heat. Like to keep the soup no hotter than 150F, or just hot enough where the glassware is too hot to hold, but not steaming profusely.
 
thank you! I had heat concerns!

Do you think the acid (vinegar) stage will handle more heat?

I think it would take a LONG time for the leaf/stems to really have their alkaloids taken up into the liquid when in a fresh, undried, whole state..

I know the lye/base breaks it all down very well, but it doesn't break down much cooking on low in a 250ml vinegar to 1.5L water mix for several hours.. maybe this doesn't matter as the Lye will strip everything (but I guess then it would be more of a STB extraction?)


Some tek's talk about reducing the liquid, but I thought the heat would potentially damage the alkaloids which is my main concern because as you mention there is not a lot in there to begin with!

I don't mind getting a reduced yield potentially but I'd like the end product to be as nice as possible
 
Perth Guy said:
thank you! I had heat concerns!

Do you think the acid (vinegar) stage will handle more heat?

I think it would take a LONG time for the leaf/stems to really have their alkaloids taken up into the liquid when in a fresh, undried, whole state..

I know the lye/base breaks it all down very well, but it doesn't break down much cooking on low in a 250ml vinegar to 1.5L water mix for several hours.. maybe this doesn't matter as the Lye will strip everything (but I guess then it would be more of a STB extraction?)


Some tek's talk about reducing the liquid, but I thought the heat would potentially damage the alkaloids which is my main concern because as you mention there is not a lot in there to begin with!

I don't mind getting a reduced yield potentially but I'd like the end product to be as nice as possible

I too am of the belief that excess heat, at any stage, decreases yield and potency, which is precisely why i stay at the heat levels mentioned previously.

I don't think reducing liquid is necessary.
 
thanks for your advice! I'm guessing the rest of the tek seems OK :)

You mentioned reduced yield AND potency.. the actual % yield doesn't bother me to much, but the potency is a big issue from the last extraction.. it is EXTREMELY nice and different (magically so!) but the potency was very diminished

I'm not sure if this is due to the other alkaloids present.. or if I just killed some of the active ingredients from going a bit high on heat

it'd be interesting to have the extract tested as whatever else in there is very interesting
 
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