Ceramic Donut Vaporizer (G Pen, Kiln, Cerum, etc) perfect for DMT?

[Aum_Shanti]

So here's the result:

Important note:
I now really got aware of the "physical power" of 5-MeO-DMT and I strongly recommend to anyone not using it alone with hot touchable materials. When I got again aware of my surroundings I still had my pen in the hand lying on my belly. If this would have been anything hot (e.g. like a GVG) I would surely have burnt myself...

First: It definitely seems conduction heating is the way to go with 5-MeO-DMT. Waaayyy better results than with convection heating.

Second: Unfortunately it seems Donut vaporizers with a donut shaped heating element are not a good way to go. Why?
The problem is, that it seems they are made for wax which is more material and more sticky. There's a space between the heating element and the bottom of the chamber. And as you need such small amounts of 5-MeO-DMT, this means that your material will gather at the bottom of the chamber not coming into contact anymore with the heating element...
Only the material which lands on the heating element itself and sticks there gets easily evaporated. And there it is really efficient in doing it!!!
I would think the same problem also arises with using DMT. Namely that quite some substance will always remain unvaped at the bottom.

So surely the best way would be having a ceramic chamber with an integrated heating. Anyone knows such an atomizer?
I think basically having a heated "cup" would be ideal. That's also the setup that seems to have been used in the argon piston device I mentioned, although there it gets heated by a flame. But one could surely as well do it electrically.

Edit:
Hmm, it seems there's not much around like that. Kinda interesting. I only found atomizers with plate heaters (Mr Bald, Linx, etc.) which all suffer the same problem, but none yet where the whole cup gets heated...
Edit2:
Ok, seems like the Mr Bald T would be such a thing, although it only heats the bottom. IMHO it would be best if it heats at least the lower parts of the sides of the cup too. Also it doesn't have the best reviews...
As it is dead cheap, I will order one to try anyways.
Edit3:
I remember someone else here suggested buying a source nail for it. I could well think it being a good option, but it's quite expensive...

 

[zikzak]

Did you try to melt the 5meo first on the heating element with a quick pulse? If that can be done without it melting down below the heating element then the full amount could be vaporized after in one hit? I heard this working with DMT so since there's less material with 5meo I'm guessing it could work with that too?

I have the source nail and I managed to break all 3 atomizers in my attempts of vaporizing 5meo with it. I actually kept the temperature lower than the recommended highest settings but they fried anyway. I heard that happen with the source nail from others. Also not having the original battery for it might had something to do with it(?). Anyway it seemed like the design was not perfect for this use anyway. As you say the cups were only being heated from below so the material seemed to creep out to the sides and stick there without being effectively vaporized. If you had the correct temperature setting and pulsing technique it might work but as of now I have no atomizers to experience with. I saw some guys on reddit suggesting the maker of the DT V3 to make a cup style atomizer where the sides would be heated too - maybe it's a design that will eventually come along(?).

Maybe the Ecapple Miracle B coil would work? I read good reports on this with DMT - and again if it works with DMT it should work with 5meo (just at a higher temp maybe?).

http://www.ecapple.com/u_file/1609/photo/d0ff56dbe2.gif

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Did you try to melt the 5meo first on the heating element with a quick pulse? If that can be done without it melting down below the heating element then the full amount could be vaporized after in one hit? I heard this working with DMT so since there's less material with 5meo I'm guessing it could work with that too?

The thing is, that it is very hard to get the material on the ring. E.g. First I just put the powder in and then melted it. But most of the powder didn't fall on the donut or already fell off the donut before melting. On the second try I first heated the donut and then put the powder in. This worked a bit better as the powder coming into contact with the ring immediately melted to it. But still quite some powder didn't make it on the ring, and just melted on the bottom of the cup. And from there, there's no chance to vaporize it. E.g. if I set it to max > 300C, it still couldn't heat the 5-MeO-DMT in the cup below the heating element enough to evaporate...
So a heating disc would certainly already be much better than a donut, as much powder just falls into the central hole while loading. But I still think you need a cup so that it really can work properly.

Maybe the Ecapple Miracle B coil would work? I read good reports on this with DMT - and again if it works with DMT it should work with 5meo (just at a higher temp maybe?).

Interesting type of atomizer. Never saw that type before. But I'm also no smoker.
The design really seems like it could work. Do you have a link to experiences with it and DMT?

I saw on the net the following indicated:

Temp range: 200F degrees~300F degrees

If that's the case, it could be too low for 5-MeO-DMT, but just about right for DMT.

Thanks for reporting your experiences with the source nail. Is that why it seems they do not produce it anymore? E.g. on the manufacturer page for many source nail stuff it is just indicated "sold out".

I really just asked myself what it would need to heat a small metal cup DIY. Just wiring some coil wire around the cup and it's bottom?

 

[zikzak]

I hear what you're saying. Seems a bit problematic with the donut style...

Here's a link for Ecapple working with DMT. Also a guy that reports DT V3 working with it and he prefers it over his Glass Vapor Genie..

https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/639df4/best_atomizer_for_dmt

And yes if the Ecapple coil B is max. 300F (where did you see that? Can't find it anywhere just max. 20W) - then maybe it's too low for 5meo. But if it's efficient in the way it heats it maybe it's enough?

I saw a picture exactly of what you are describing - a cup with wires around it and on the bottom - but I don't believe it's been made yet..

 

[zikzak]

Maybe it would be worth checking how it works to mix 5meo with some concentrate with a butter-like consistency?

I had this conversation with a guy a couple of months ago:

"Hypnos Zero is obviously meant for cannabis concentrates. So take shatter, for instance. Its main active component, THC, has a boiling point of 157° C. Shatter can be vaporized using the Hypnos Zero's highest temperature setting, which is capable of reaching over 340° C. When doing this, the THC is not heated to combustion, but rather very quickly heated to its boiling point where it will turn into vapor as airflow permits. This allows one to vaporize the entire chamber in seconds.

The boiling point of DMT is 160° C. Jimjam, being an oil like shatter, is capable of being subjected to conduction temperatures that will quickly burn crystallized DMT. Like with the THC in shatter, it's able to stay at its boiling point before being burned for much longer than its crystalline brother. As long as airflow is maintained, these larger temperatures would allow for Jimjam to be vaporized much faster. I imagine that if one submitted Jimjam to the highest temperature of the Hypnos Zero, one would see the near total vaporization of the chamber within one toke."

Same logic could work with 5meo I guess.. Same guy believed 5meo had a boiling point at 215C - not confirmed though. But could be right compared to your findings also? But using this method I guess a much higher temperature would be preferred to vaporize it instantly which leaves DT V3 and Miracle B coil out in that case.

 

[Aum_Shanti]

I had a look at the indicated reddit thread, and as it seems one guy there explains how he vapes DMT with it: Just put plenty in and smoke.

It surely works like that, but you have no idea how much you smoke like that. While this still probably works out more or less OK with DMT, it is IMHO not an option for 5-MeO-DMT as the dosage amount is just way more critical.

E.g. vaping 10mg more or less DMT isn't that of a story, doing the same with 5-MeO-DMT is a big problem.

I now just asked myself: If I wire some Ni200 around a metal cup, how would you best isolate the windings from the cup. It would need to be flexible and thin, a good thermal conductor, no electrical conductor and quite heat resistant. Any idea? And how to fasten it at the bottom? Any heat resistant glue?

 

[zikzak]

Yes, it's not an option not to be precise with the amount. My whole idea with this method is that it should be very precise - no use of lighter - one toke take off - and could be operated easily also on the road.
I'll ponder your idea. But really, it must be possible to find something that'll fit the bill that's already made, hmmmm....

 

[zikzak]

Aum_Shanti, look at what I found

https://www.sourcevapes.com/blogs/news/meet-two-new-coil-less-atomizers-quartz-plus-and-source-terra-2

The terra 2 - just saw it so don't know what temp it goes to though..

 

[Aum_Shanti]

That's basically what I thought of. But as it seems your experiences with this manufacturer weren't the best.
Also I ask myself if they stopped producing, as much of their products are sold out???

 

[zikzak]

Hmm yea.. Don't know. Searching for a bit of info on it now and it seems it has gotten ok reviews. Can't find anything on temp. though and if doesn't go to 215c I guess it can't be used anyway(?)

 

[zikzak]

Any new insights? Did you experiment more with the DT V3?

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Na, IMHO further experimenting with the DT V3 would only be a waste of material.
The only Idea that came up, would have been, to maybe insert a small metal plate on the donut, to maybe circumvent the problem of material falling into the cup.

But I mainly now just wait on my Mr Bald T. But it will probably take 2-3weeks to get here from china.

 

[zikzak]

Ok, I'm not getting the DT V3 then..
Gonna be interesting with the Mr Bald T. if it's going to have the same problem I had with the Source Nail atomizers or you can get it to work..
I'm considering to get the Terra 2 atomizers - can only find them in the US though wish I could find them in EU..
(Off topic: did you try 5meo with a nectar collector? I've only tried once yet but it seems like a very efficient and straight forward method)

 

[Aum_Shanti]

did you try 5meo with a nectar collector? I've only tried once yet but it seems like a very efficient and straight forward method

I honestly have no doubt that a NC or just a simple smoke bubble work excellent for this.
But I don't dare to use anything where I can get in contact with hot surfaces. My experiences so far clearly showed me, that I would burn myself with a high probability.

 

[zikzak]

Yes, this is my intention for this method as well. No open fire would be really great. Also if you could dial in the effectiveness of this method so you'd know the EXACT dosage you are playing with - that would be a big plus also.

There is a way of doing it very safe with a nectar collector though. If you use a stand for it and then have the small glass bucket with 5meo as the only moving object then you got no hot parts to fumble around with. For my only attempt so far I didn't use this method but I did notice that it seems like when the 5meo melts it spreads out to a larger surface which not all seemed to get fully utilized. I have a glass container for the NC that has a flat bottom but I noticed that the original inventor/company sells rounded bottom ones which makes sense. I have ordered of few of these to see how they'd work:

http://www.dhgate.com/product/wholesale-hot-sale-mini-hot-air-stirling/396413953.html

 

[Aum_Shanti]

I still would be cautious. It is well known, that some people tend to move very strongly on 5-MeO-DMT. So even if the NC is on a stand, you could still get in contact with it...

I personally will wait on the Mr T. If it doesn't work, I will try to make my own, with buying a ceramic heating plate and making a kind of electric smoke bubble. That should IMHO definitely work.

 

[zikzak]

Yes in my first 5meo experience I moved very strongly..

Yes sounds good - was looking at my girlfriends flat iron today and was thinking of a setup with a ceramic heating plate.. (write me a personal message if you'd like to exchange ideas on that)

 

[Charoite]

Have you looked into the Puffco Plus? it has a solid ceramic bowl (not donut). It looks quite promising, but not cheap @ $100.

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Yeah I had a look at it before. But honestly the price is quite high and I personally don't like proprietary stuff. I rather like to have just an atomizer to mount on a mod.

But today my Mr Bald T arrived. Finally.
Unfortunately I'm really busy this weekend, so I cannot test it now.

I really like that there's written big "Breakthrough" on the package
(a Freudian slip?)

From a first little test without material it seems to work OK and also seems properly made.

Although they do say, it's not for TC, it seems to change the resistance with temp. So maybe one just would need to find out the corresponding coefficients to calibrate.

Honestly, up til now, it really looks very good for the job. But as said not yet tested.

For the price ($12 incl worldwide shipping), it would be a blast, so fingers crossed...

 

[zikzak]

Curious to hear how it goes. I would think it would have the same difficulties as I experienced with my source nail coils but hopefully not!