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Changa Hash

Has anyone tried doing an extraction from rue where you just leave the seeds in boiled water overnight? I had completed 2 boils before bed, and soaked the seeds for a 3rd boil. It has that UV/motor oil look to it that rue gets and it got me thinking that it could perhaps extract harmalas out without as much plant matter. Surely not as effective as boiling but for 3rd wash potentially good at keeping the unnecessities of rue extraction out.
 
Transform said:
Last week I brought 6g of seeds to a boil, turned off the heat, and then strained and drank the liquid after a 20 minute soak. It was very strong, and a subsequent hour-long boil with another cup of water the following day was almost too strong. So, a short boil and longer soak is definitely a viable - and energy efficient - approach.
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Oh cool! So you did a subsequent boil on the same material? Or in addition to a soak?

Just starting my boil down now, look out hashland here I come!
 
TheAwakening said:
Oh cool! So you did a subsequent boil on the same material? Or in addition to a soak?

Just starting my boil down now, look out hashland here I come!
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Yep. One strong dose from a short boil and soak, another very strong dose from a longer boil afterwards, and actually one more mild dose from a third and a fourth longer boil combined, after which the seeds seem to have only traces of actives left. Note that I used distilled water and a pinch of ascorbic acid for each brew.

And my other trick now is to add a teaspoon of excellent honey with half a drop of lemon essential oil before consumption, which makes the flavour more bearable.
 
Yeah rue tea certainly begs a flavour enhancement 😅

Wow, that makes me realize why crushed rue caps are so potent. Seems like 6gr has 3 doses whereas 2g isn't really that strong as a tea.
 
It only ended up as a 6g brew since that's the amount that accidentally spilled out on my worktop. I thought it would be strong, but the bright clarity of those two experiences was a testament to the quaility of the seeds as much as anything else, and it was the first trial of a fresh batch so it could count as sailing a bit close to the wind as well. I knew what I wanted though.

And you're right - that 6g could easily have made three comfortable doses, especially were it with the intention of activating oral DMT. Older seeds likely will be rather less potent, and this latest batch might be a tad stronger than average, such is the way of natural products.

The inexperienced may be wise to show a little more caution than I did.
 
TheAwakening said:
Did you make it with an alcohol extraction?
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3 water boils and then a vodka boil.
4X works but if I had it to do over I would just do the resin or go 10X.
I'm doing the same to the Rue now. I haven't been partaking for a while since I've been too busy, but I feel the need for a reset. Right now, making the Rue (etc.) hash is my "ritual" to prepare.
 
It's still drying out properly but I scraped some along the edge where it was very flakey/powdery, roughly 150mg and rolled in some chamomile (was the only herb I had on hand that I thought would go alright to smoke) and the smoke was very pleasant to inhale. I felt a decent buzz off it, when I can get the whole thing to be dry I will have another crack.

Something I will share, don't start scraping it until it is actually dry, it's very sticky and I'm pretty sure the resin is somewhat hygroscopic because even what is powder will go sticky some time after cooling down. I'll post final weights for it when it's completely dry.

At this point I feel like enhanced leaf is probably better for smoking but this resin is for sure very smooth. I feel like Even for a non smoker like myself, I would even say my lungs are pretty fussy, no hint of coughing. My old daily bong smoking self would laugh at myself for the previous comment.
 
Okay so final weight is 9.5g so basically a 5x extract. Smoked about the same as last time and then a small toke of DMT from the vape and potentiation was definite, very beautiful space opened up inside. So it definitely works! I should also note that this batch of seeds is very old (10+ years), still has a good kick though.

I do stand by what I said, for me it is too sticky which makes it harder to work with. Extract might take longer to make but is so much more convenient. Crushed seeds in capsules works delightfully for oral and is very straight forward to prep. I also found the stickiness leads to a higher loss of yield imo.
 
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TheAwakening said:
Okay so final weight is 9.5g so basically a 5x extract. Smoked about the same as last time and then a small toke of DMT from the vape and potentiation was definite, very beautiful space opened up inside. So it definitely works! I should also note that this batch of seeds is very old (10+ years), still has a good kick though.

I do stand by what I said, for me it is too sticky which makes it harder to work with. Extract might take longer to make but is so much more convenient. Crushed seeds in capsules works delightfully for oral and is very straight forward to prep. I also found the stickiness leads to a higher loss of yield imo.
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You probably just need to let it dry out more.

If you're going to mix DMT freebase in with the resin that should also reduce some of the stickiness when it dries out and make it easier to roll.
 
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Panpsychic said:
You probably just need to let it dry out more.

If you're going to mix DMT freebase in with the resin that should also reduce some of the stickiness when it dries out and make it easier to roll.
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Yeah, it could also be humidity dependent. In my very dry house, rue tea will evaporate down to a powder if left in the warm as a shallow layer for a couple of days. It may also be that a rapid pre boil removes much of the gummy, hygroscopic stuff, since the example I mention was the second brew after such a treatment. It kind of figures that compounds with a high affinity for water would be pulled out quicker, so it may be worth experimenting with this kind of hot rinse pretreatment, @TheAwakening .
 
Aha! It does definitely seem related to humidity. I left some very dry powder out and sure enough this morning it's a sticky mess. So in my mind the next logical step is to try out @Transform's idea of a rapid preboil to try extract as much of the hygroscopic gunk as possible while not extracting too much harmalas.

@Panpsychic, I would personally find an efficient way to vaporize it at this point before adding freebase to the mix because I suspect there is a decent amount of wastage flaming it with a lighter mixed with herb. Rue is cheap (and precious) but spice is just precious 😁
 
One more thing, it might not even require a pre-boil, maybe just a hot rinse. As I've mentioned before, the quick simmer was very potent. Best keep the washings and either find a use for them or extract the actives.

So the test sequence would be:

cold rinse
warm rinse
hot rinse
boiling rinse
short simmer
Full boil

The other variables would include pH of the water, and whether to use destilled water or something with mineral content. It would make sense not to acidify, and possibly to add a pinch of base to, the first rinse or two, depending on the properties of whatever turns out to be the hygroscopic stuff.
 
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TheAwakening said:
Alkaline pH is a very good idea!
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I pinched the idea off @benzyme :D
I'm not 100% sure if the hygroscopic stuff will come out in alkali, so take this as a caveat.

And of course, the idea with the test sequence is to see where the most hygroscopic stuff comes, then hone the volume, pH and duration of the washes to optimise for cleaning and minimise loss of actives.

If alkaline washing is used then the extraction boils will obviously need to be acidified a little, but beware of residual acidity with non-volatile acids.
 
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TheAwakening said:
@Panpsychic, I would personally find an efficient way to vaporize it at this point before adding freebase to the mix because I suspect there is a decent amount of wastage flaming it with a lighter mixed with herb. Rue is cheap (and precious) but spice is just precious 😁
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You may have a point although this applies more generally to smoking vs vaping spice, and the concept of Changa itself.

If you are someone who likes to vape freebase DMT, then the method you did already with smoking the pure Rue resin first with some herbs is among the easiest ways there is (if you don't mind smoke) of loading up on harmalas, alongside alternatively smoking pure Caapi leaf and vine shavings or passionflower with herbs to accomplish broadly the same effect.

If however you want the Changa experience of simultaneous DMT and Harmala inhalation, I thought there was a general opinion that vaping is less effective in the case of harmalas since the evaporation temperature is way higher than DMT so you mainly just get DMT from vaping Changa. Smoking it is the way and I would see this as the same whether with leaf or hash based Changa. I have heard some opinions that it's about vaping technique but I think it's more just about the temperatures involved.

I don't know if vaping the rue resin will thus be an effective means, but it's worth a try.
 
So my thoughts thus far on potentiation of DMT with smoking a rue hash joint vs drinking rue tea (I still havent made actual 'Changa hash' by infusing it yet since I don't have any freebase curently, just consuming the harmalas first then smoking spice in the form of some Enhanced Calea Ternifolia Leaf).

- Drinking Rue tea potentiates the subsequent smoked DMT more than smoking the harmalas first.

- Smoking the hash gives potentiation faster, pretty much instantly but more like within a couple of minutes whereas with drinking the tea you need to wait about an hour.

- Smoking the rue hash gives me a kind of 'stoned' feeling, complete with a bit of red eye that I don't get when drinking the tea. It's actually quite pleasant to smoke with herbs (previously I have only smoked it with tobacco) and I can see myself actually smoking the stuff for some pleasure by itself since I gave up cannabis years ago, just make sure you don't drink alcohol on the same day.
 
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brokedownpalace10 said:
I'm sure most have seen these, but I'll shoehorn them in anyway. Good stuff.

Erowid Syrian Rue Vault : Three Beta-Carboline Containing Plants...

'Three Beta-Carboline Containing Plants as Potentiators of Synthetic DMT and Other Indole Psychedelics', by Gracie and Zarkov - 1985.
erowid.org

Erowid Syrian Rue Vault : Peganum harmala - An Indo-European Plant Teacher

'Peganum harmala: An Indo-European Plant Teacher', by Gracie and Zarkov - 1986.
erowid.org
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These are some great articles, Gracie and Zarkov are pioneers and they give, as far as I am aware, the earliest accounts we have in the modern literature of smoking MAOI's to potentiate smoked DMT, although I have no doubts that these practices have been going on for centuries.

Just as I am quite sure that smoking Caapi leaf and extracted DMT is something that has gone on in the Amazon since prehistory (at least we have evidence for the snuffs with this combination), I am now of the opinion that smoking or vaporizing this Peganum Harmala resin combined with extracted DMT is a likewise ancient practice.

@TheAwakening based on the article cited and ongoing experimentation I am going to question what I said before, and say that indeed vaping the resin may be one of the ways to go.

Gracie and Zarkov make some observations that are directly relevant here from boiling and straining rue seeds to arrive at the resin:

"The plant material is smoked with a match, lighter, or torch in such a way to promote the boiling of the material, rather than burning it. This seems to yield the most effective high. The highly concentrated rue extract lends itself nicely to smoking in a “hash oil” pipe with the flame heating the bowl on the outside."
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By 'hash oil' pipe, either a pipe or bong with a bowl that allows heating of the bowl itself to allow the resin to 'boil' or else something like a glass vapor genie, with the flame not directly needing to touch the resin. This is significant because it means that in resin form this form of changa can indeed be vaped rather than smoked.

It goes without saying also that for every current Changa blend out there, there is an alternative method to having to use DMT dissolved into alcohol to mix with Caapi leaf or any other leaf.
One can simply make a leaf blend by mixing whatever desired leaf combo you want with the reduced Rue liquid and some freebase DMT and letting it dry out to make a smoking leaf blend.
 
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