Chemical Confusion

[cilocyber]

Hi

Sorry to be asking yet more questions but swim is at the end of his patience! Swim said...

i have now screwed up three batches of MHRB, due to having moved country and using new chemicals.

Have done 4 extractions, i home country before these failed ones, and they all worked perfectly. Since coming to new country only failures have been experienced.

First two attempts here i used...

http://www.cabdan.com/Files/Filer/Datablade/Mineralsk_Terpentin.pdf Naptha(i noticed afterwards that this naptha had some other things inside it which could have caused the failure.

http://www.borup.info/en/Download/Sikkerhedsblade/Kemi Pulver/Kaustisk Soda.aspx Caustic Soda/Lye

Both of those extractions attempts failed miserably and whole lot was chucked away. I got these sort of crystals but they seems contaminated and melted as soon as i poured the naptha off.


Most recent attempt...
http://www.kl.dk/ImageVault/Images/id_48507/scope_0/ImageVaultHandler.aspx NAPTHA

http://www.matas.dk/files/Kaustisk Soda 2010.pdf Caustic Soda/Lye.


Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't think the technique is wrong, as i have used the exact same method before. It would be great if someone could just look at those chemicals and tell me if there is something wrong with them. At least then i will know that i am not mad.

Thanks in advance guys

 

[endlessness]

Your first major mistake is throwing stuff away. Your DMT doesnt dissapear, do not throw anything away till youre finished and happy with final yield! You probably panicked when something didnt go as expected and prematurely threw stuff away instead of being calm and checking the FAQ and solving your problem.

Also if you dont share your extraction method, its impossible to give feedback on it.. So what exactly did you do?

Regarding melting crystals, possibly thats your issue:

FAQ - DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Regarding using new chemicals check this out:

FAQ - DMT Frequently Asked Questions and Troubleshooting Guide - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Good luck

 

[cilocyber]

Hi Endlessness

Sorry, my previous questions was just to see what you guys thought of the chemicals swim used for the failed extractions. But swim now thinks that if you were willing to give more in depth advice then it would be greatly appreciated.

Tek used was...

Erowid Mimosa (Jurema) Vault : DMT for the Masses

'DMT for the Masses', by Noman.

www.erowid.org

Didn't do the 0.4ml napth per gram of rootbark. Used a 75gr lye,75ml naptha and 75gr MHRB.
Used a ratio 15ml water to 1gr MHRB.

This same method worked perfectly before and was actually surprised by the massive yields attained.

So the only difference between previous extractions and this one was the chemicals used...
Links to said chemicals are in original question.

So my 3 questions are as follows.

1) What do you think of the 4 different chemicals used? Naptha at the second attempt has trace amounts of Benzine...would this affect anything?

2) Could you, taking into account the chemicals at hand, advise swim on what tek to use and what amounts(water,lye,MHRB and naptha) to use? Please be precise if at all possible.

3) Does the quality of the local water sometimes affect results? Swim's area has very very hard water, dunno what other chemicals are in it.

Sorry to be so demanding but this will be swim's fourth attempt and he really couldn't bare another failure.

Thanks in advance. Cyber hugs

 

[endlessness]

From a quick look, the other solvents there mixed in might be more toxic or might pull more n-oxide and plant oils or impurities than pure naphtha, but if you just make sure its really dry and evapped (and anyways do an evap test), it should work.

You dont make clear what you think a "failure" was? Was it a goo? Was it nothing at all? Because if its a goo, goo amounts are misleading (they seem less and actually weigh much more) and often they are a concentrate of dmt + remaining solvent and/or plant oils which prevent it from crystallizing, thats why I gave the links I did, you could probably recover your dmt from that.

Was the mimosa from the same batch in all those tries too, including the successful ones first?

I dont think tap water would really affect the extraction either.

Any amounts given in teks in the nexus wiki should be fine to follow and result in good products.

 

[cilocyber]

Hi

There was no goo, just some ice crystals that looked like DMT but then melted.

Used two different batches of MHRB, one Brazil(home powdered) and one Mexico(powdered from provider).


According to you, both the kinds of Naptha used should have worked? At least leaving swim with some goo?

Swim's main questions really is if you think the Lye and Naptha are ok? Like could they be the cause of the failures?

 

[endlessness]

If the melted, what did they melt into? they didnt just dissapear, did they? Didnt they become an oil?

again, from quick look, I dont think the naphtha or lye are the problem.. Was the whole mix black? Did you evaporate or freeze? If you freeze, did you pre-evaporate or check the FAQ tips on how big pulls should be or how much to pre-evaporate? Did you check the FAQ tips on low yields?

 

[cilocyber]

Hi again

Swim says...


"The melting was ice i think, but there was also a little bit of oil inside it, darkish nasty looking oil, very little of it. Have always had nice layer of white crystals in the past. Maybe that is what threw me.

Have spoken to chemical manufacturer who assures me the Naptha is basically only Naptha with nothing else inside it. The lye is 99% pure, also nothing else inside it. So the chemicals ain't the problem...so i can't understand why my teks since changing country have not worked.

I have evaporated off about 40% from the most recent 1st pull, it took serious time! So waiting on that now.

Gonna try another extraction using the following amounts...

75gr MHRB Powdered by manufacturer.
1125ml water x 1.5 so 1687 ml
112.5gr lye(to match the larger amount of water this time)
30ml heated naptha x 4 or 5 pulls

In my other attempts i was using 1gr MHRB / 1gr Lye / 1ml Naptha / 15ml Water, so even though these ratios worked before they for some reason did not work the last few times?

Please can you tell me if you think these amounts are correct and also any other advice for my next attempt would be great.

Thanks in advance."

Swim said all of the above to me and i am reporting his crazy talk on here purely as part my imaginary role play madness.

 

[endlessness]

Your dark "nasty looking oil" had your DMT, you could have simply recrystallized it as FAQ instructions.. again, do NOT throw anything away, DMT doesnt run away, it can always be recovered.

Your naphtha probably took long to evap because it is composed of a hydrocarbon fraction with high boiling point.

Your extraction plan sounds ok, just be sure to do many cycles of stiring/letting stand before pulling out the solvent each time.

and again, do not throw things away if they dont go as expected.

 

[cilocyber]

Thanks a lot. Will report back when done.

 

[Noman]

I'm going to say that the naptha is the problem here, assuming that the lye was 99% pure and the same procedure was followed in both cases.
It's probably a heavy type which extracts fine but won't precip and takes forever to evaporate.

 

[cilocyber]

Hi Noman

Swim told me...

"Bartoline was used in the UK on previous extractions and it worked every single time, better than expected actually.

On the MSDS page it is called
NAPHTHA (PETROLEUM), HYDRODESULFURIZED HEAVY 100%
CAS-No.: 64742-82-1 EC No.: 265-185-4

The naptha used on the most recent failure is...

Naphtha (petroleum), hydrodesulfurized heavy (<0,1% benzene) 95-100% (The manufacturer told me that there are no other chemicals inside it and it is only termed 95-100% for technical reasons.

Tha part about "hydrodesulfurized heavy", seems to be in line with what you are saying about it being the heavy kind. But the problem is that Bartoline in the UK is called the same thing on it's MSDS page and yet it worked an absolute treat on all previous occasions and people actually say it's one of the best to use. So paint me confused.

I do get the feeling that there is something wrong chemically though, because the technique & MHRB used is the same as before, in fact two different kinds have now been used with the same poor result.

The naptha is taking ages to evap, water would go faster i think. Have done 50-60ml evap over 2.5 days from a standard sized bowl...yeah i know i should have used a large flat tray.

Anyhow, i also have some which has been freezin for like a day now and again, i get this cloudly white whispy crap that looks like jizz collecting near the bottom of the bowl. This is what i have had every time on these recent failures? I know it is DMT because when i get some out and spread it out i can smell the spice.

Man please tell me what to do, i was going to try another extraction tonight but i guess it is pointless if i got the wrong chemicals. I always thought naptha was naptha was naptha. Maybe i should buy some lighter fluid. Ha this is getting expensive.

Thanks in advance.

...So says SWIM.

 

[endlessness]

heavy naphtha has a very high boiling point, takes a million years to evaporate a good amount, (and if you freeze, the chances you'll get some trapped naphtha in your crystals are much greater than with light naphtha) its a pain in the ass to use it... Cant you find light naphtha?

What about researching other methods such as using limonene or xylene and going the FASI/FASA way ?

 

[cilocyber]

Hey

Swim says...

"I think the easiest is to go to a headshop or smokers store tomorrow and get some lighter fluid. Will make sure its 100% light naptha this time. It will be easier to do that, rather than mess with a new tek which i will probably screw up.

Just gonna have to evap what i have now so it's not wasted, should be ready for next summer ;P

Will surely post some pics of my success if and when it happens.

Thanks for the help "

Said swim

 

[Bartacus]

I use Ronsonol lighter fluid. It's a light naptha and it evaporates clean.

It seems to be the standard brand that people in the UK use. Easy to find too.

 

[endlessness]

If you use lighter fluid or any solvent that is not of a guaranteed purity for labs, make sure it doesnt have rust inhibitors or other impurities and that it evaps cleanly. Even if it does evap cleanly, personally i would wash it with acidic and then basic water before using, just in case.

 

[cilocyber]

Swim says...

"OMG this city cannot find any light naptha, no Ronsonol, no clean Zippo fluid!!!


I have read that it is possible to use n-heptane instead of naptha? Is this true and if so, do i just do a straight swap and use the same amount of n-heptane as i would light naptha? I can very easily get a hold of n-heptane so it would be great if i could use it.

Thanks again"


...SWIM's a crazy man

 

[endlessness]

yes, heptane works fine

SWIM is not required here, but whatever you feel like writting is fine