Chronic pain and the psychedelic experience

[Fridge]

Fellow Nexians,

I have a problem that I carry around for a while (I think months turned to years by now). So far I kept it for myself and only mentioned it when it got really bad. I have been to the doctor several times because of this, but he seems to either not being able to pinpoint the issue or he thinks it's not a problem that needs attention. Sometimes it gets better, but it's always there to be felt and takes away a chunk of life quality.

It's my lower back that's killing me. I think I lead an active lifestyle, go hiking, trailrunning, surfing and swimming. After the doc couldn't help I hoped to solve the issue myself, by trying to strengthen the muscles in my lower back, but so far it doesn't seem to help. I also tried yogal, stretching and other exercises (my mom and brother are physiotherapists).

Only heat from a hot water bottle or a hot bath takes away the pain. Cannabis helps to manage the pain. Kratom takes away the pain entirely, but I have had a difficult relationship with this plant in the past, so I only use it whenever it's really bad and I need to be fully functional for some reason. I don't want to ignore the pain with the help of pain meds though, I want to get to the root of the problem. Maybe it's just part of getting older and I need to accept it/ stop whining about it?

Besides all the areas in my life this issue is effecting it also effects my psychedelic experience. Not so much DMT, but mushrooms can amplify the pain, basically begging me to do something about it. The benefits of my trips still outweigh the cons, but I don't know for how long...

I will have to go to the doctor again eventually, but as I am sure I am not alone with this I decided to make this thread. I am sure that I am not alone with this. Maybe we can help, support and share experiences with each other here.

 

[MAGMA17]

It certainly depends on the severity of each situation, age and other factors. Although I am young, I am very tall and have back pains from time to time (I developed scoliosis as a teenager which I later solved).

What helps me, and which I have also recommended to a very dear friend here , is the shakti mat. It's a mat made up of needles, which helps tremendously with back pain (and much more).

However, as I said, it depends a lot on the situation you are in. My father suffers a lot in his back and therefore I know something about the subject: if you want to eliminate the root problem you either do physiotherapy, or you have an operation (if you have a serious problem). Everything else, stings and things like that, are useful to make you live peacefully, but you become addicted to it to function efficiently. What I recommend is to look for a specialist and get a good examination, perhaps having an X-ray taken.

Try to solve the problem at the root, otherwise you will carry it with you all your life. Do not think about substances or other methods to only temporarily alleviate it.

So, to relieve the pain (and it is right to do so) I recommend the shakti mat. However, seek the cause of the problem from a specialist, and in case you will have to do physiotherapy and specific exercises based on what you have (the causes can be many). I don't think you should have the operation, of course, which is done only in exceptional cases.

 

[Fridge]

Thank you Magma, I really appreciate your advice and kind words .

I never heard about a shakti mat (sometimes I think I live my life behind the moon). I will read up on that and get one.

At this point I know I have to dig deeper, sometimes I am just a bit worried what I might find. I don't like the idea of an operation, but it's likely possible to solve it in other ways. I am functional, but it accompanies me in every life situation. .
I pondered a bit about this and will go to my doctor tomorrow and make him refer me to a specialist for a propper check up.
Soon I will be working as a craftsman again and need to fix this befpre I start.

 

[_Trip_]

It's not uncommon for younger people to have bulging, herniated or torn discs.
Degenerative disc disease is also very common after 40 (40% of people) and by 80 (80%) have it. Artificial discs for lumbar and cervical degenerative disc disease -update: an evidence-based analysis - PubMed
In a way its natural and you'd be surprised how many people over 65 end up with auto-fused vertebrae (naturally fusing vertebrae).

Your L4 to S1 is the most common sites for damage due to lifting. We as humans become very lazy as we get older in how we pick up things, its easier and less effort to bend over than squat and lift. A great example is toddlers they squat to pick up everything and they do it naturally and flawlessly as soon as they can walk. We quickly grow out of this and it doesn't do us any favors. Of course desk work, environmental factors, physical fitness and diet all play major roles. For this reason you'll find especially for men experiencing lower back pain its often associated with tight hip flexors (you can check for things like a pelvic tilt) and inactive glutes and abdominals. If I was you these 3 things would be worth looking up. Even with serious back issues you can build into physical/ flexibility exercises.

It could also be a magnitude of other issues including nerve etc. I'd look into hip flexors, glutes and ab activation just to start. It'll take time to learn to activate them properly again if this is your issue.

Interesting, there's a really intriguing study on young vs elderly, were they measured higher pain scores in younger demographics despite scans revealing the younger demographics had no serious issues and elderly patients reporting low pain scores and scans indicating significant structural issues. The conclusion linked the pain in the younger demographic to psychological triggers (i.e going to work was a trigger etc). However, after a quick search I couldn't find this study.

 

[MAGMA17]

Thank you Magma, I really appreciate your advice and kind words .

I never heard about a shakti mat (sometimes I think I live my life behind the moon). I will read up on that and get one.

At this point I know I have to dig deeper, sometimes I am just a bit worried what I might find. I don't like the idea of an operation, but it's likely possible to solve it in other ways. I am functional, but it accompanies me in every life situation. .
I pondered a bit about this and will go to my doctor tomorrow and make him refer me to a specialist for a propper check up.
Soon I will be working as a craftsman again and need to fix this befpre I start.

Most of the problems are solved with physiotherapy, exercises etc...so do not be afraid of the operation, you will certainly not need it. For example, my father is in a stage where he lies on the bed all day, he can barely walk because of the pain.

If you manage to be functional, your problem is certainly not that bad. But the sooner you face it the better! I share the fear of discovering something new, I understand you well.
A specialist will be able to tell you what you have (or don't have) and will be able to give you a physiotherapy program and exercises to do.

It is a very stupid thing, but: have you ever thought about changing your mattress? The position of the back while you sleep is important in those cases.

 

[fink]

Hey Fridge, I also suffer from long term injuries. Over 25 years of more or less constant discomfort leads me to be very good at hiding it from myself. Most substances tend to help me remember. A long trip with mushrooms or acid leaves me aching like a cripple. DMT not so much. Some weeks I'm on a steady diet of mild pain killers. I figured I'm just getting old and it will only get steadily worse until I've had enough and go for the long sleep happily.

In a way I'm glad. The things that are hard have made me a more thoughtful and kinder person over time. Knocked the youthful arrogance right out of me in early 20s.

 

[Fridge]

_Trip_ these are all good points and I will look into them now, thank you. I thought about the lifting part too and since I got that problem I started to lift things correctly (not using my back, but my legs). I wish I would have listened to my mother back then telling me how to lift things. I might not sit with this problem now.

Magma, I changed my mattress recently because it's really bad when I wake up. Especially when I slept on my stomach, which is why I only sleep on my side and back for now even though it's not my preferred sleeping position. As long as I move around it's just background noise, but as soon as I sit or lie down it gets bothersome.

It's kind of weird, because I am only 38 and quite fit otherwise. I have had to work in an office for 10 years though and carried children around for the last 5 years. So this could all play into it. Maybe it's partially psychosomatic, but I don't think so.

A specialist will be able to tell you what you have (or don't have) and will be able to give you a physiotherapy program and exercises to do. Smile

This is what I really hope for. It would be a relieve to know how to get back on track!

 

[Fridge]

Hey Fridge, I also suffer from long term injuries. Over 25 years of more or less constant discomfort leads me to be very good at hiding it from myself. Most substances tend to help me remember. A long trip with mushrooms or acid leaves me aching like a cripple. DMT not so much. Some weeks I'm on a steady diet of mild pain killers. I figured I'm just getting old and it will only get steadily worse until I've had enough and go for the long sleep happily.

In a way I'm glad. The things that are hard have made me a more thoughtful and kinder person over time. Knocked the youthful arrogance right out of me in early 20s.

Hi fink, it's definitely a humbling experience and a reminder that one should enjoy every painfree day. I do hope that your pain isn't going to get stronger, the older you get though .

The last mushroom trip really made me aware of this issue in quite a mercyless way, which is why I decided to try and work on finding a solution for this problem rather than hoping for it to disappear on it's own. DMT makes me feel like I leave my body behind, which can be quite liberating in my situation.

 

[Ice House]

Maybe you have already tried ice? I haven't seen anyone mention it here. I find that ice is a great remedy. Pain is often caused by inflamation. Ice reduces inflamation. Regardless if its an injured muscle or a problem with a disc, ice will or should help with the symptom of pain. When you are wathching TV or on the computer or sleeping, try and multi task! put an ice pack on it. Heat is only really effective during the first 24-48 hours after an injury. After that ice it!
get well soon!
IH

 

[fink]

Hi fink, it's definitely a humbling experience and a reminder that one should enjoy every painfree day. I do hope that your pain isn't going to get stronger, the older you get though .

The last mushroom trip really made me aware of this issue in quite a mercyless way, which is why I decided to try and work on finding a solution for this problem rather than hoping for it to disappear on it's own. DMT makes me feel like I leave my body behind, which can be quite liberating in my situation.

Thank you for that sentiment. Sometimes there is pleasure in accepting the cards I am dealt. Don't make me explain that because don't think I can rationaly. I'm pretty sure everything hurts more for everyone the older we get. If you're 80 years old with a perfect body you're either very lucky or very boring. :twisted:

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I've lived with chronic pain for fifteen years now after completely obliterating my S5/L1 disc. I get by without painkillers. What gets me is if I come down with a virus and this shuts down my normal endorphin production. That throws rather a grim light on things :lol:

A few of my LSD trips over the intervening years have, during the second half of the experience, left me laid there twitching while confronting me with the reality of the pain and neurological damage. And if I'm walking my brain overheats seemingly because there's a part that's having to do a bunch of proprioceptive processing that would normally taken care of by ganglionic reflexes.

What has helped me helped me the most is keeping my core abdominal muscles strong and engaged to the right degree. It's not so much about strengthening the back muscles but rather these core muscles and there are plenty of training exercise to help one achieve that. The neurological damage has been ameliorated to some fair degree by - maybe you've guessed - my ongoing use of harmala alkaloids.

Counterintuitively, perhaps, in the years immediately following the injury I found that a physically demanding job with lots of heavy lifting kept me going. The important thing to note is that this also entailed having a very wide range of movement (I was basically a roadie building temporary structures).

So get some help building up those core muscles and keep fully mobile (hanging off a pull-up bar is also good, whichever way up you do it - but if you're upside down you have to be 100% certain it's firmly attached).

I'm also a firm advocate of cold showers (and it doesn't have to be the whole shower that is cold) so Ice House's recommendation is absolutely on point - and it's fantastic to see you back here after all these years too, IH!

 

[Voidmatrix]

Apologies, I'm writing this part without having read the entirety of the posts shared. However, I am hoping to be able to help you because I have made some serious headway in the past month with regard to my very intense and persistent lower back and hip pain.

Mine all started when, while using the belt (which I rarely did) I increased too much inner diaphragmic pressure and injured/tore something in the left side of my back with a 445lb deadlift. For me, there is definitely scar tissue on my left side.

The muscle that I have found that is a major source for my back and hip problems is the quadratus lumborum (ql), which is a muscle that is on each side of the spine that begins connecting at the lowest rib, then every vertebrae down to the illiac crest. It's more a core muscle that a back muscle. However, it is a culprit for back pain that often goes unnoticed. It's function involves almost any movement in the lower lumbar, as well as side flexion. If you experience sharp bolts of pain in your lower back when tilting your hips in certain ways, it increases the likelihood that the issue is your ql and needs to be released and strengthened. You can feel it by standing straight up keeping your hips square, and then bending sideways without letting your hips move outward opposite the way you're bending too much.

Also look into your multifidus, which is responsible for twisting motions of the trunk. Also a back pain culprit.

Your transverse abdominis may also be weak. It's a deeper core muscle that wraps around underneath the top abdomen layer.

Last, it never hurts to work on the psoas, the only muscle that is extant in both the upper and lower body.

I will second what MAGMA mentioned about the Shakti Mat. He converted me... I use it everyday

Have you tried triggerpointing? I use either a softball or lacrosse ball depending on how acute I want to be. I also make sure to spend some time letting the ball sit in problem areas that need more release.

One love

 

[Fridge]

Part of my daily morning routine is to get a nice mug of coffee and read my morning news. The DMT nexus. Just like my father did back then reading the newspaper, by the breakfast table .

It feels good to see I am not the only one with these kind of issues. Not that I am happy we're all in pain, but there's a German saying that goes "Geteiltes Leid, ist halbes Leid", which means something like "shared pain is half of the pain". It's kind of true...

And thanks IH for suggesting ice! I haven't tried that yet, but I will. It makes sense though as whenever I go for a swim in cool water, the pain fades a lot. I just connected that relieving effect with the movements I do. Maybe it's a combination.

DF0 and Void, I think I need to look into strengthening my core strength. Recently I concentrated on legs, arms, upper body and back, but not so much on core strength, because I figured that my bi weekly surf or swim sessions should take care of that.
I did try triggerpointing and it helps temporarily, but it never eliminates the pain entirely.

I just made an appointment with the doctor, so let's see if he'll be able to help me this time.

Once again I am so grateful for this community! Thanks everyone

 

[Fridge]

I quickly want to report back and say thank you for all your suggestions. The doc gave me pain/anti inflammatory meds which helped a lot. However like many of you he suggested working on my core strength. His recommendations were planking and pushups.

So I mainly concentrated on these exercises plus swimming for the last couple of days. Last night I skipped the pain meds just to see how I actually feel, not masked by any medication (other than cannabis). Maybe it's a bit early, but I feel sooo much better.

If this was really the solution to the problem, I regret a bit that I didn't find this easy solution earlier.
I hope someone with a similar issue reads this some day and finds some relieve just like I did.

Thank you all, again!

 

[MAGMA17]

This is great news. I am very happy for you!
You are doing the right thing, try to see for how long you can be painless with just the exercises.

 

[nitrogenaztec]

Try hanging from a pullup bar?

Two benefits...

1) Can stretch your back out
2) Strengthen your arms

just an idea

 

[downwardsfromzero]

If this was really the solution to the problem, I regret a bit that I didn't find this easy solution earlier.

Consider yourself lucky - I learnt about core exercises literally the day after I'd obliterated my disc! :lol: Still, 15 years of mobility without any operations or pain relief (besides, back in the day, some cannabis) really ain't so bad.

And I, too, am very pleased that it appears to be working out for you. There's a whole gamut of core strength exercises that I won't go into right now, but I'll see if I can compile something for you because there's quite a bit more that can be done besides planks and pushups.

 

[Fridge]

Thank you to all of you!

@Magma, yes that's what I will try to do. I always tried to avoid medication as much as possible, if it appears that my body can heal itself or when I can do something about it in a more natural way. I am glad that I can put these pills aside.

@nitrogenaztec, a pullup bar seems like a good idea. I thought of it myself and want to make something diy (I prefer diy over buying whenever I can). Pullups seem like an exercise that's good for my situation as it doesn't put pressure on my lower back. When I do trail running and see a tree with a suitable branch for pullups I usually stop and do some. I would like to have something like that at home though.

@DF0, I can't exactly remember when this issue started but it's been a long time. I got so used to it being a challenge putting on my socks in the morning. Now I feel free . It's still there, but I feel sooo much better. Lately I couldn't even get into drawing because I couldn't focus.
I always smiled a bit when I saw people doing planks, wondering what that's good for. Now I know. And yes please, if you have any good exercises I can incorporate into my exercises I would be very grateful!

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Planks, side planks, sit ups, leg lifts, bridge position (yoga), Bend over and pick up a very light weight and do a set with your lower back then a set with your middle back.

Do all that three times a week (at least one day off between). Do the last two, the lifting ones, 7 days a week with extremely light weight. I like to use a low resistance physical therapy rubber band. The 7 days a week is to wake up your back and bring blood to the area. The three days a week stuff is core strengthening.

For back issues, always start uber low intensity and slowly work up. Doing it consistently for a while is the most important thing.

Another very useful thing is to take a walk in the morning. Just walk around the block.

Doing a bit too much or turning wrong without your back warmed up is the most common trigger for spasms.

You need to strengthen your core three times a week and warm up your back every morning.

 

[Fridge]

I am taking notes here, bdp10. Thank you !