citric acid instread of phosphoric or acetic

[turtleman29]

Not sure if this has been answered, I did a search and couldnt find anything, forgive me if I overlooked a good thread.

Anyway I was following the DMT handbook extraction tek and was wondering if you could simply use citric acid instead of phosphoric or hydrochloric. I donno if this would affect the consistency of the final product or if the amount to bring the ph to 4 would be simply too much.

Thanks everyone

peace and love

 

[endlessness]

I guess you are asking about an A/B dmt extraction, correct?

yes, citric acid would do but... why not acetic acid? Its super easy to find for anybody in the world in foodsafe form.. Vinegar = acetic acid, basically.. So just add a splash of vinegar to water and the mimosa, and thats it

btw, check the FAQ, it has this and other plenty of common questions answered (but no problem about asking, we are here to help )

 

[turtleman29]

I was wondering because of this section in the DMT handbook.

"Many acids will work, however it is strongly recommended that Phosphoric, Hydrochloric, or
Sulphuric acid be used. Previously, Vinegar (Acetic acid) was used, but the yields were substandard
compared to those achieved with Phosphoric acid. This may be due to the Acetic
acid forming a weak bond with the DMT which may easily be broken down during some steps
of this process." - DMT handbook

I thought that perhaps yield may be equally affected by the use of citric acid instead but I would be interested to know if anyone else has noticed yield differentiation using different acids.

thanks for quick response endlessness

Peace and Love

 

[endlessness]

I was wondering because of this section in the DMT handbook.

"Many acids will work, however it is strongly recommended that Phosphoric, Hydrochloric, or
Sulphuric acid be used. Previously, Vinegar (Acetic acid) was used, but the yields were substandard
compared to those achieved with Phosphoric acid. This may be due to the Acetic
acid forming a weak bond with the DMT which may easily be broken down during some steps
of this process." - DMT handbook

I thought that perhaps yield may be equally affected by the use of citric acid instead but I would be interested to know if anyone else has noticed yield differentiation using different acids.

thanks for quick response endlessness

Peace and Love

I very much disagree with this part of the handbook, I had never read it before... SWIM can get yields of over 1% with vinegar so cant see this as substandard yield, though he hasnt made a side by side A/B with phosphoric and vinegar to have an accurate judgement (I wonder if whoever wrote this did or is just an opinion).

It honestly doesnt make sense to say that acetic acid makes weak bond with dmt that may be broken down during 'some steps'. What steps is this? There is only one step which is making dmt soluble in water by having the water acidic, and in solution the acetic acid bond with dmt wont break down. If you evaporated the whole water and left only dmt acetate (which nobody would anyways), maybe then one could talk about it being a weak bond but in solution its a very different story. After this step, one will anyway add a base which will neutralize the acid, so a 'strong' or 'weak' bond will not make a difference.

The only advantage AFAIK that has been consistently mentioned when using phosphoric acid is not to make an extraction, but when ingesting the dmt, which some people hypothesize for some reason dmt phosphate improves the absorption/bioavailability in comparison to other forms and one gets a faster come up/stronger trip. Though even this is still debatable.

In any case, dont worry vinegar is perfect, just make 3x or 4x boils and all will be fine

(but of course, if you want to use another acid, go ahead Its just not really necessary )

and just on a side note, vinegar is food safe, cheap and readily available everywhere. Hydrochloric acid can be very nasty and toxic (just uncap a concentrated HCL bottle and you'll immediately know what I mean), sulphuric acid also, and I doubt it will be very easy to find it food safe grade. Phosphoric acid could be found food safe (its used in coca-cola for example), but still to get it cheaper and more easily than vinegar will be hard. If you do it, though, be sure to tell us how it went

 

[turtleman29]

Thanks endlessness, it didnt really make any sense to me either that part about the weak bond, since I didnt think the acid is necassarilly bonding to the DMT salts anyway. I thought the point of acidifying the ph was to aid in lysing the cells to release the alkaloids.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, I had planned on using vinegar and was pretty thrown off by this tek so I had to post the question on here. Anyways 1% yields appears to be the bar on yields so if you can get greater than that out of vinegar it does appear to be the authors opinion and I tend to doubt he did a side by side comparison, perhaps some other variable affected his previous yield when using vinegar.

Peace and Love

 

[GratefulDad]

SWIM got better yields with an a/b using HCl acid, however it came out much dirtier. When using vinegar, more acid water soaks were needed to remove all the DMT, while the HCl seemed to pull the DMT out much quicker.

 

[Infundibulum]

SWIM got better yields with an a/b using HCl acid, however it came out much dirtier. When using vinegar, more acid water soaks were needed to remove all the DMT, while the HCl seemed to pull the DMT out much quicker.

Just curiosity here, but how did SWIY monitor the removal of dmt from the bark with hydrochloric versus acetic acid?

 

[GratefulDad]

SWIM added HCl to the water for the acid water soak part of a normal a/b, instead of vinegar. The HCl produced a higher yield, than the same batch of bark than with acetic acid. With acetic acid, more soaks were needed to pull out an equal amount of DMT, but the HCl needed to be cleaned up a bit more.

 

[acolon_5]

Vinegar works fine. Citric Acid will not work as well and massive amounts would be needed I think.

I too however, have found that Phosphoric and HCL "stripped" the Mimosa quicker. To me, when the mimosa turns grey it is done...like really done. With vinegar it can take up to 6 cooks to achieve this (but this is REALLY milking it for all it's worth and probably not worth the hassle) but with HCL/phosphoric it takes only 3-4.

This is not 100% conclusive evidence, just my observations. Citric would take many, many more cooks than vinegar, I do not suggest using it.

Also, that part of the handbook may need a bit of revision. People new to extractions really should be using vinegar beacuse of its effectiveness as well as its safety.

 

[preschooler]

While working that acid extraction. YOu can use a crock pot for days at a time.Do multiple acid extrations on the mass....and reduce the extraction to a workable size...<<<<<<just wanted to add if you didn't already know:surprised

I would search out the hcl if i were you...you can buy one gallon 20% and probably have it for years.

 

[turtleman29]

Thanks acolon and preschooler I think I'm going to use vinegar for awhile, its just easier for me to obtain however when I have time I will search out some HCL.

Thanks for the tip on the acid extraction, Im thinking I am going to have the crock sit for awhile but I did have one question slightly unrelated.

If I were to do a recrystalization would a crock pot heat up the solute and crystals enough to recrystalize?

I only have a gas stove in the kitchen so I planned on using the crockpot as a hotplate in my bathroom that has a cieling vent fan.

Thanks again everyone

Peace and Love

 

[GratefulDad]

SWIM has recrystallized DMT by using a hot water bath to heat the solvent, and it worked even if it doesn't boil, but more naphtha or heptane may be needed at slightly lower temps, to dissolve all the DMT. Best to be safe and use a little excess solvent than to possibly catch on fire.

 

[endlessness]

NEVER (!!!!!) have open fire nearby solvents, for gods sake!

First boil/heat the water with solvent far away and with cap on, then turn off the fire, and then put solvent in a small container with the dmt, and submerge the bottom of the container in the water for a couple of minutes (dont let water get inside, just touching the outside bottom).. 30ml of naphtha/equivalent per 1g of impure dmt should be enough, you dont need to have the water boiling while you do it.. In fact, it would be better not having it or else you risk vapping some dmt. Dirty goo should stay on the bottom, so just pippete/pour the clear naphtha on the top to another container leaving the goo behind

If you want to make sure you got everything of the dmt out, you can add another 5ml of naphtha to the goo, leave for a couple of minutes and pippete/pour it out again.

 

[dread]

I've used citric acid in my A/B extraction and had great yields and high purity of product. My first pull gave 0.8 grams of snow-white crystal (from 200g bark, pulled with 200ml naphta).

 

[kckoll]

Hello everyone. Speaking about the DMT HANDBOOK, I recently followed that tech and used phosphoric acid to do my acid. Cook and the Handbook says to get the PH to 4ph. It said, add a few drops of phosphoric acid and it seems that I would add a little too much and when I used my ph. Meter, it was down in the 1 ph 2 ph range. Do you have any idea if that will negatively affect the process? Having the ph too low?

 

[Varallo]

Hi kck DMT is relatively stable in low ph aquatic solutions, if you want to get the ph up just use your favorite base to adjust your ph a bit.

On a more practical note, I see that you are resurrecting allot of threads from the past and while that is not a problem per say, it’s not really practical, your questions are very suitable for the FAQ section of this forum so please use that.