Cocoon

[NeitherHere]

I did a psychological pilgrimage of sorts a couple of years ago.

lots of "kids" went back packing or on road trips after secondary school, I willfully went homeless in my hometown.
for days on end I'd sit in my car in the middle of the town and watch the world go by. watching the communities ebs and flows. people fight and argue, and so on.
somewhere along the way I realized I didn't want to participate in that anymore. that 7-9am and 3-5 pm rush to get to work or home or peoples undue attitudes towards each other out in "the jungle".
people looked down at me for being on the streets but never stopped to realize I Was nicer and happier than they ever were in their chaos.

I realized all I wanted in life was some property to raise my family from the earth. grow our own foods, medicines, make our own food, leave the system designed to use and abuse us. the system that intentionally takes us from our families day after day in the name of "stability".

this last year has been tough.

I almost went homeless again after a serious injury. and there's been a lot of learning lessons.
we lost a record number of plants to adverse weather, lost a couple of animals to "nature" and learning lessons, and I've gone through hell learning new skills.

deep down there's some days I want to throw in the towel. its hard, things aren't fair. but my ancestors didn't give up because their crops failed. they didn't quit because their cattle died. they didn't get upset because they had to learn a new skill they had never even considered or heard of. they kept pushing. otherwise they went hungry. we have pictures dating back to the 1930's of my great grandparents and grandparents in the fields showing off the "family car" and livestock. the new "icebox" they had fought to buy and I recall growing up listening to my grandfather talking about how they would moonshine to get ahead of the curve. they did anything they had to just to survive. I remember grandpa telling me they had to put a horse down because they ran out of protein. as a kid that seemed pretty extreme but as an adult I see how their desire to keep the hose was outweighed by the need to eat. there's that dose of reality with that story. survival by anymeans necessary.

so, self sustainability. it's not just some instagram fad. it's not a matter of making anyone else happy. to me, it means providing for my family without the help of society at large at every waking turn.

today marks 4 years since the day I checked into rehab and started the persistent grind to self sufficiency. the first couple of years were all about learning how to live day to day without fentanyl easing the constant pain. the last 2 years were all about learning new things. now it's all starting to come together.

the cucoon is unraveling. moth or butterfly I'll come out better than I was years ago when I needed a little blue tablet just to live.

I write all this because I want to start a dialogue here in this subforum. it's not a very active sub but if you're here; tell me why? what drives you to want to be self sufficient. what have you done to achieve those goals? what do you know that I don't? maybe we can share notes and experiences to benefit mutually.

I want everyone to eat, and I don't think the system we were all raised in is designed for our welfare. that statement supersedes politics. on the contrary I think the politics of it all is what hampers mankind at large from thriving.



while I have you here I also have a thread on home made meals (stuff that is made from scratch barring boxed and premixed ingredients i.e. no preservatives and additives) I hope you'll participate by sharing a recipe. I like to add to the thread as I cook stuff that my family enjoys maybe you'll find a recipe you enjoy or share one that you enjoy.

thanks for your time

NeitherHere

 

[northape]

I want everyone to eat, and I don't think the system we were all raised in is designed for our welfare. that statement supersedes politics. on the contrary I think the politics of it all is what hampers mankind at large from thriving.

You're very much on point here. This System works as designed. Any news, politics or tech progress are just to support it.
Climate change, mass extinction, renewable energy are all parts of a capitalistic narrative of growth that kills the Earth.
For anyone who sees it, there are few possibilities. Sustainable living from the Earth is hard nowadays.
It heavily depends on where you live and what you have. Where I am right now, it takes a whole life just to save money to begin.

Some mountain places, away from big cities and industries, call to me.
This entire human world rapidly advances, but it advances towards collapse.
Many wouldn't agree, because it makes our days bleak and meaningless otherwise.
Still, I find meaning and peace only within Nature and a life grounded in it.

 

[Voidmatrix]

The system is the system and will always appeal to those who are designers and main benefactors of that system. Protecting their interests, while it derails everyone else, is part of our mechanisms of preservation. Pretty sick joke, isn't it?

One love

 

[fink]

This is nothing new my friends. If you think the rich today are powerful, have a look at kings and emperors from 3,000 years ago. The way things are is exactly how great human civilisations have always functioned.

The only thing that is different perhaps, what makes our time even more difficult to change, is the skill and tools with which the powerful keep the peasants in line.

Slaves that don't even know they are slaves. I have even a little admiration for how skillfully they control eight billion of us. Can't even blame them. As a species we are rabid, violent and unreasonable.

The best part? If the peasants get too rowdy, they can just coerce us to kill each other, or easier, just nuke us and live in bunkers for a few years.

How would you do things different if you were in control of this chaos?

 

[blig-blug]

The way things are is exactly how great human civilisations have always functioned.

Yes. But in almost a million years of humanity, civilizations only have existed for the last five millenia or so. A little drop in the bucket of the history (in a wide sense) of humanity.

How would you do things different if you were in control of this chaos?

If I were in control I would have to act similarly or would quickly lose said control. I don't think it depends on this or that person or group of people being in control, the problems that are being talked about here started once that kind of control became possible. Now we have reached the point where certain people could cause the death of hundreds of million of others if they so decide. But I consider the real problem to be the structures, social and otherwise, that make this situation possible.

 

[NeitherHere]

this evening I went on a bit of a mental health purge of my garage making more space to work and I found my grandfathers barber kit from a loooong forgotten era, maybe the 50's or 60's. I don't think it's coincidence that I've been looking to get my hands on a straight razor only to find 7 of my grandfathers. most are rusted or crumbling from decades of storage but there are 3 that are in really good condition with a couple of strops and some compound.

I'd like to think I'm on the right path here. my elders didn't really leave a clearly defined path to life so I'm really swinging in the dark until I figure things out myself here.

I thought I'd share my find though. I was drenched in sweat and it was hot as hell in there but it was a really rewarding find. not clue when or how it got there but I'm confident it was my grandfathers.

 

[fink]

Yes. But in almost a million years of humanity, civilizations only have existed for the last five millenia or so. A little drop in the bucket of the history (in a wide sense) of humanity.

If I were in control I would have to act similarly or would quickly lose said control. I don't think it depends on this or that person or group of people being in control, the problems that are being talked about here started once that kind of control became possible. Now we have reached the point where certain people could cause the death of hundreds of million of others if they so decide. But I consider the real problem to be the structures, social and otherwise, that make this situation possible.

Fully agree with you there. To put it simply, the current situatation is a perfect reflection of what humanity actually is. It's not artificial. It is exactly what we are when counted together.

Maybe it's slowly changing for the better. Maybe it's not meant to change. Like you say, a million years.

 

[northape]

This is nothing new my friends. If you think the rich today are powerful, have a look at kings and emperors from 3,000 years ago. The way things are is exactly how great human civilisations have always functioned.

It's true from the perspective of this civilization. We know very little about what happened before 12000 years ago and most likely we had a very different kind of civilization.
Unwillingness to look into ancient civilizations and mainstream narrative about them makes me think that government doesn't want any radical ideas about our origin or what is possible. Most of ancient sites were taken over by WEF and it shows a lot. Furthermore, ancient kings of India & Tibet were much more humane than modern leaders.

As a species we are rabid, violent and unreasonable.

Or so they want you to believe. We're cramped in a cement zoo with designed stressed lives. Modern human is simply sick.
We would be very different in a more open and welcoming world. The fact of our violent nature is one more myth used to control us.
We can fight like chimps or f#ck our way to freedom like bonobos. Humans have lots of possibilities. It's this narrow-mindedness that keeps us in a cage.

How would you do things different if you were in control of this chaos?

Politicians should be public SERVANTS. They should have no possibility to earn anything beyond a fixed amount.
They should have a special education on a PhD level. So only people who are truly called would apply.
The 2nd point is education. We should invest in the next generation. Educate open-minded and kind people that are not driven by consumerist mentality.
Both of them would never happen in the modern world. So our only possibility is a civilization reboot. And nukes are not enough, I've thought a lot about it.
We need the flood or a similar catastrophe to wipe the slate clean once again. No other option is available at this point, imo.

 

[Traged]

I hear and feel you.

leave the system designed to use and abuse us

This is a goal of mine. To have kids and be able to set them free of the system.

Where I am right now, it takes a whole life just to save money to begin.

Issue I am struggling with :/

Some mountain places, away from big cities and industries, call to me.

Tells a lot about state of things, when we desire clean air, water and food so much...


To be specific, I don't want to cut myself from society completely. I do not strive to be 100% self sufficient all the time. I just don't want to to buy any fruit and vegetables. And maybe raise some of my own protein (some chickens probably).

One of my lifegoals is "sanctuary" for my family. I do not know if I will be able toa achieve it. But I want place that my future kids will be able to go raise their kids, at young age to keep them out of the way of industrial chemicals as much as possible.

 

[northape]

To be specific, I don't want to cut myself from society completely. I do not strive to be 100% self sufficient all the time. I just don't want to to buy any fruit and vegetables. And maybe raise some of my own protein (some chickens probably).

One of my lifegoals is "sanctuary" for my family. I do not know if I will be able toa achieve it. But I want place that my future kids will be able to go raise their kids, at young age to keep them out of the way of industrial chemicals as much as possible.

Yeah, it would be impossible to completely cut yourself from modern society. All the pollution and problems going to come with air and rain.
All we can do is find a peaceful place on the fringe of society and pay for our ticket to freedom.
It's easier said than done with how things work, especially in the West.
However, it's still possible to live from the Earth and create a small paradise for your close ones.

I'm looking into South America nowadays. Warm places with unfinished infrastructure are the best bet, imo.
We'll see if I can find courage and save enough resources to make it happen.
Best of luck to all struggling souls

 

[fink]

It's true from the perspective of this civilization. We know very little about what happened before 12000 years ago and most likely we had a very different kind of civilization.
Unwillingness to look into ancient civilizations and mainstream narrative about them makes me think that government doesn't want any radical ideas about our origin or what is possible. Most of ancient sites were taken over by WEF and it shows a lot. Furthermore, ancient kings of India & Tibet were much more humane than modern leaders.

Or so they want you to believe. We're cramped in a cement zoo with designed stressed lives. Modern human is simply sick.
We would be very different in a more open and welcoming world. The fact of our violent nature is one more myth used to control us.
We can fight like chimps or f#ck our way to freedom like bonobos. Humans have lots of possibilities. It's this narrow-mindedness that keeps us in a cage.

Politicians should be public SERVANTS. They should have no possibility to earn anything beyond a fixed amount.
They should have a special education on a PhD level. So only people who are truly called would apply.
The 2nd point is education. We should invest in the next generation. Educate open-minded and kind people that are not driven by consumerist mentality.
Both of them would never happen in the modern world. So our only possibility is a civilization reboot. And nukes are not enough, I've thought a lot about it.
We need the flood or a similar catastrophe to wipe the slate clean once again. No other option is available at this point, imo.

I hope to prove that what may appear as my 'narrow mindedness' is actually a full acceptance of what we are.

Take a drop of pond water and observe through microscope. All biological life is a constant battle to devour your neighbour and harness the energy for your own means.

Co-operation on the scale of hundreds of trillions, yes, our body is that. For the purpose of more efficiently devouring anything else we can to harness the stolen energy.

Doesnt matter if you are a fanatical vegan or a die hard BBQ king. You consume and harness energy from other biological life in your environment.

Now conciousness is another matter completely. We do have the gift of a sufficient level of awareness to ponder if we could so live a different way.

But my dear friend, let us not be so naive as to project our little community's values onto humanity or biological life as a whole. We are the enigma. The thoughtful ones.

Most do not think like us. Most humans are indeed, rabid, violent and unreasonable. Violence is the reaction first chosen when sufficient words or understanding are lacking.

Unreasonable. Hitler did not think he was evil, bad or wrong. Most people do not think they are a bad person.

Rabid. Go drinking in any city and observe. A foaming pitbull is easier to calm down than a drunk group of men spoiling for confrontation.

Maybe ancient humans did find a better way at some point. But it obviously failed to keep them on top. If your civilisation gets wiped out, you failed. Doesn't matter how good or bad you were.

This hierarchy of exploitation and suffering is exactly how humanity is supposed to exist. Life doesn't make mistakes.

I can see a way to pass that suffering down to a lower lifeform of our own design. But the suffering in some observable form is still required to compare with the joy or there is no value to any of it.

You are definitely on the right track with your ideas for doing it better. But here is the issue. You and me are not strong or foolish enough to desire control of this chaos.

We cannot keep blaming the world's most powerful for our own behaviours as a species.

Biological life is a brutal struggle of torment and pain. Of death and violence. Just as our universe is a violent, tempestuous maelstrom of construction and destruction.

The truly beautiful thing is that love, kindness and laughter also exist. But these are a privilege, a gift, a reward. Not an obligation.

There is only one thing to do. Become hard, driven and powerful. Then you can attempt to dictate how life on this planet is going to evolve.

Funny thing though. To get to that position always changes the mindset. We cannot be the thoughtful, compassionate creatures we present here on this forum if we want to reach that position.

Although, wishing a flood to wipe out 99.9% of land based life does indicate that you might have what it takes!

 

[northape]

I hope to prove that what may appear as my 'narrow mindedness' is actually a full acceptance of what we are.

Sorry if it sounded like a personal insult. I should have framed it better. I meant narrow-mindedness in general

Although, wishing a flood to wipe out 99.9% of land based life does indicate that you might have what it takes!

Haha, just my fragile ideas of grandeur. I wanted to nuke the world since my teens, but it's just a symptom of dissatisfaction with society.
I don't really see any way to change our course beyond starting anew. Don't be too hard on me. Most likely, it's just a kind of coping mechanism.
At least I know about it and don't let it go into pure rage. Compassion for myself and others is a lifelong project for me.

I agree on all the other points, and I'm not so naive to argue about them.
Your view on things is totally solid, and I have no problem with it.

I honestly believe in the basic goodness of everyone and struggle for a kinder world.
People like me find some solace in religion and ancient traditions.
I heard you
Much Love

 

[Woolmer]

I have fantasised about such a scenario where I cut myself off from society, but then it feels like escapism. I've thought that perhaps a better way is to work from within to better the lives of everyone and work towards a new system where everyone is taken care of. I'm not sure whether you would be able to do this when you cut yourself off.

 

[northape]

I have fantasised about such a scenario where I cut myself off from society, but then it feels like escapism.

It depends on what you're going to do. If you just stay in a forest by yourself and live your life, then it sounds like an escape.
On the other side, staying in a cave and meditating day-and-night sending love into the world would be far from escaping. Most likely, you would be more connected to the world and suffering in it. But people see no value in it nowadays

I've thought that perhaps a better way is to work from within to better the lives of everyone and work towards a new system where everyone is taken care of. I'm not sure whether you would be able to do this when you cut yourself off.

Sorry, but you can only better the lives of people close to you. And even that is one hell of a project. Much respect and all the strength on this path

 

[fink]

Sorry if it sounded like a personal insult. I should have framed it better. I meant narrow-mindedness in general

Haha, just my fragile ideas of grandeur. I wanted to nuke the world since my teens, but it's just a symptom of dissatisfaction with society.
I don't really see any way to change our course beyond starting anew. Don't be too hard on me. Most likely, it's just a kind of coping mechanism.
At least I know about it and don't let it go into pure rage. Compassion for myself and others is a lifelong project for me.

I agree on all the other points, and I'm not so naive to argue about them.
Your view on things is totally solid, and I have no problem with it.

I honestly believe in the basic goodness of everyone and struggle for a kinder world.
People like me find some solace in religion and ancient traditions.
I heard you
Much Love

I definitely didn't take offence. I love the chance to debate this stuff with you. Please don't take my words as an assault on you either.

Funny thing is I suspect we are both in exactly the same place on this topic, deep in our core. I also want to nuke the world often.

The reality I must face is that my diatribe here is more to tell myself why my solutions won't work. I actually agree with everything you've said!

 

[Woolmer]

On the other side, staying in a cave and meditating day-and-night sending love into the world would be far from escaping.

That just sounds like escapism again, through religion.
You mention it as your own experience, here:

People like me find some solace in religion and ancient traditions.

I don't mean to bash religion either. Life is indeed really difficult as is, and people need some sort of a foundation. But I think a critical approach is important, and a lot of religions take a lazy and convenient approach, particularly the anthropocentric and theistic religions. Praying alone in a cave for your whole life might make you feel better about life but to bring change you need real action.

Sorry, but you can only better the lives of people close to you. And even that is one hell of a project. Much respect and all the strength on this path

There are plenty of people who have changed the world for the better. I think if you put your heart into it and work hard you can definitely bring about a great change, and if more of us realized this as an option it would come about most naturally.

All the best on your path too

 

[Voidmatrix]

Sorry, but you can only better the lives of people close to you. And even that is one hell of a project. Much respect and all the strength on this path

A bunch of people (even you) have bettered my life. We ain't nowhere near each other. Everything is connected. And it's easier to cast a net of effect in this technological day in age

One love

 

[northape]

Sorry, but you can only better the lives of people close to you. And even that is one hell of a project. Much respect and all the strength on this path

Basically, I mean that we can really touch only a very small circle of people. It's very rare for someone to make a worldwide change.
I'm glad that many of you are so optimistic and willing to make this world better. Most likely, my life's situation and struggles put a kind of bias on my views.
Still, I'm quite open to any ideas and welcome them. Don't take anything I say as some kind of absolute truth. Nothing is permanent.
Life moves and shifts everything, including my outlook

That just sounds like escapism again, through religion.

Maybe. I'm in no position to argue. I'm living in the West, not in a cave somewhere.
I think sending love for years as a practice could actually create a ripple in the world.
It won't be visible, but could be felt in our collective psyche. Once again, it's just my speculation.

A bunch of people (even you) have bettered my life. We ain't nowhere near each other. Everything is connected. And it's easier to cast a net of effect in this technological day in age

All I do is try to be honest and open. How others use my replies is up to them. Of course, it brightens my heart when someone finds them useful.
I'm quite a lonely guy and modern times provide very little for someone like me. I always try my best to speak from the heart and tell the truth.
Much Love

 

[Voidmatrix]

All I do is try to be honest and open. How others use my replies is up to them. Of course, it brightens my heart when someone finds them useful.
I'm quite a lonely guy and modern times provide very little for someone like me. I always try my best to speak from the heart and tell the truth.
Much Love

There's a reason I like keeping up with many of your posts brother. Your candid, raw, compassionate openness, are a beautiful treasure.

And boy, do I feel you on the lonely train... and at the same time I really shouldn't be saying much about that I feel.

One love

 

[fink]

I think it could be appropriate at this point to explain my better world paradox. Hopefully someone can tell me why it is wrong.

If all human experiences were to be put on a scale of 1-10

1 is the worst possible experience
5 is neutral
10 is the best possible experience

After a monumental effort we collectively improve all human experiences so that:

5 is the new worst
10 is the new neutral
15 is the new best

For the remaining humans who lived in the 1-10 period there would be a felt improvement. Until they all died out.

From then on, every new generation are still living at a neutral flat line with -5/+5 possibility.

Comparative to the min/max scale, the 1 worst experience and the 5 worst experience feel exactly the same. Likewise the extra 5 points from 10 to 15 mean nothing if both are not experienced by the same individual.

The possibility that we have continuously improved human existence over hundreds of thousands of years to absolutely no long term effect.

Maximum suffering still feels the same. Maximum joy likewise. Baseline neutral is always neutral.

I think it is impossible to make any long term improvements. Human experience has never changed. When you have been as low as is possible and as high as is possible you've felt the same as any caveman ever did. The same as any future, cosmos-conquering human ever will.