Combine pulls in the freezer dish?

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

Hi. New to this. I already did a couple of small A/B runs using Naphtha to see how it works and had some success. I'm patient, leave a day usually between steps so no rush. I've been taking the dish out of the freezer, drying it, scraping it, leave the DMT to one side to dry thoroughly, start again with a scraped clean dish for the next pull.
It struck me though, can I just leave the extracted DMT in the dish, in the freezer, along with any residual naphtha, and just fish it out to pour the next pull over it and then back in and freeze again? Can I do that for all the pulls then just do the drying and scraping in one go right at the end?

 

[TransistorBass]

Yes you can mix your Naphtha pulls, though you might want to keep your first pull seperate for some nice white crystals, in my limited experience the 2nd & 3rd pulls have more colour and waxiness to the crystals.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Hi. New to this. I already did a couple of small A/B runs using Naphtha to see how it works and had some success. I'm patient, leave a day usually between steps so no rush. I've been taking the dish out of the freezer, drying it, scraping it, leave the DMT to one side to dry thoroughly, start again with a scraped clean dish for the next pull.
It struck me though, can I just leave the extracted DMT in the dish, in the freezer, along with any residual naphtha, and just fish it out to pour the next pull over it and then back in and freeze again? Can I do that for all the pulls then just do the drying and scraping in one go right at the end?

Yes, absolutely you can. No issues whatever.
Good to hear of your taking your time. I prefer this approach too. I keep promising to get myself a separating funnel, but not following through. It sure would make the process soo much easier.
Be good to see some pics of your results.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

Yes you can mix your Naphtha pulls, though you might want to keep your first pull seperate for some nice white crystals, in my limited experience the 2nd & 3rd pulls have more colour and waxiness to the crystals.

Nice, thanks. I've made about a gram so far which was off-white / brownish. Bit sticky but it works a treat. I still have most of it, am spending the afternoon attempting to clean / wash it to see where that leads. I still have plenty of MHRB left to make another batch if I cock it up. This site's Essential DMT Guide A/B section [clean up option 3, Mini A/B including the optional sodium carbonate wash] as close as I can follow it.
In passing, if you [or anyone else in passing] have done this step perhaps you can tell me if the saturated naphtha is supposed to turn milky when added to the clean acid?

Yes, absolutely you can. No issues whatever.
Good to hear of your taking your time. I prefer this approach too. I keep promising to get myself a separating funnel, but not following through. It sure would make the process soo much easier.
Be good to see some pics of your results.

Thanks! As above I've already redissolved the DMT I had into clean naphtha so nothing to photograph at the minute. And crikey, I'd never heard of a separating funnel but having just googled it that's where I'm headed. £20 off Amazon isn't much relative to the amount of cash / effort put in elsewhere in the process. A drop in the bucket! I made my first ever chemistry joke, for which I apologise.

 

[Pandora]

If you are placing a non sealed evaporation tray in your freezer then that needs to be a dedicated freezer just for that purpose or you need to throw all the food out as it will be contaminated with cancer causing material.

Good job taking your time and moving slow. That works well for me too.

The best way to go for freeze precipitation is to evaporate off half of the solvent and then place the remainder of the material in a small, tightly sealed jar and put that in the freezer. And yes combine all pulls.

Happy extracting.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

If you are placing a non sealed evaporation tray in your freezer then that needs to be a dedicated freezer just for that purpose or you need to throw all the food out as it will be contaminated with cancer causing material.

Good job taking your time and moving slow. That works well for me too.

The best way to go for freeze precipitation is to evaporate off half of the solvent and then place the remainder of the material in a small, tightly sealed jar and put that in the freezer. And yes combine all pulls.

Happy extracting.

Thanks for making me aware of this risk, I'll certainly take precautions going forwards. I struggle to get all the gunk out of the dish I have and that's made for the job, how is it done using small jars?
Also I've read here about the risk of contaminating the production process by exposure to plastics, does that apply to the naphtha? If so how do I go about making a proper seal?

 

[Pandora]

So, first evaporate 50% from the tray (pyrex) safely. Then use something like this Amazon.com: Canning Funnel for Kitchen Use, Wide Mouth Funnel for Mason Jars, Large Canning Funnels for Filling Bottles : Home & Kitchen to safely transfer the contents of the tray to a jar that you can seal tightly.

Now freeze precipitate for 8 to 36 hours. Put it in the back of the freezer where the cold air comes in and try not to peek.

Once it is ready, get another small jar and secure a #4 coffee filter to the top then decant the freezer jar contents into that.

Now using a razor blade and a dull point knife for long reaches, scrape the filter and the precipitation jar contents into a fresh and dry evaporation tray.

I hope this helps.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

So, first evaporate 50% from the tray (pyrex) safely. Then use something like this Amazon.com: Canning Funnel for Kitchen Use, Wide Mouth Funnel for Mason Jars, Large Canning Funnels for Filling Bottles : Home & Kitchen to safely transfer the contents of the tray to a jar that you can seal tightly.

Now freeze precipitate for 8 to 36 hours. Put it in the back of the freezer where the cold air comes in and try not to peek.

Once it is ready, get another small jar and secure a #4 coffee filter to the top then decant the freezer jar contents into that.

Now using a razor blade and a dull point knife for long reaches, scrape the filter and the precipitation jar contents into a fresh and dry evaporation tray.

I hope this helps.

Helps a lot, thanks. What's the point of the evaporation at the beginning? It's the word safely that troubles me, I'm just doing this in my kitchen and so far have been flat out trying to avoid evaporation of the naphtha thinking that's the last thing I need floating about my house is lighter fuel vapour.
Edited to say: Sorry badly worded, I'm not suggesting that you are suggesting that I fill my house with vapourised naphtha.
And edited again to say: Not to worry, thank you anyway, I've read around enough articles here to have got an understanding of the evaporation step.

 

[Pandora]

You want to evaporate off 50% to create a solution super saturated with DMT and just itching to precipitate out.

Yes, evaporation is ideally done outdoors. Barring that find a small room with a window (I use my bathroom and I only do evaporation between 1 and 4 am), place the evaporation tray in the window with the window open and put a fan on it blowing not too aggressively, pointed out the window. In a couple hours the contents should be 50% less. Then do your best to seal off the room from the rest of the home (tape, towels, etc).

 

[Varallo]

It would be nice to get some data on this, to @2^DqoeHy*97u maybe you would be able to see if there is really any difference?

For example, you could proceed as follows: take 1 gram of the DMT and dissolve it separately in 50 mL, 100 mL, and 150 mL of naphtha. Then place all three solutions in the same refrigerator, at the same temperature, and allow them to freeze-precipitate for exactly 24 hours. Or of course consecutively, as you would only need only one gram. Afterward, compare the amount of precipitate formed in each case to determine whether it remains consistent or changes as the solution becomes more diluted.

Just a suggestion, no pressure

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Honestly, evaporating solvent is an incredible waste, not to mention putting volatile compounds into the atmosphere.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

It would be nice to get some data on this, to @2^DqoeHy*97u maybe you would be able to see if there is really any difference?

For example, you could proceed as follows: take 1 gram of the DMT and dissolve it separately in 50 mL, 100 mL, and 150 mL of naphtha. Then place all three solutions in the same refrigerator, at the same temperature, and allow them to freeze-precipitate for exactly 24 hours. Or of course consecutively, as you would only need only one gram. Afterward, compare the amount of precipitate formed in each case to determine whether it remains consistent or changes as the solution becomes more diluted.

Just a suggestion, no pressure

I don't mind messing with it, like I said above I'm not short of ingredients. But I'm no chemist and couldn't guarantee the precision of operation needed to ensure a meaningful comparison. Maybe some time after I've got my routine down

Honestly, evaporating solvent is an incredible waste, not to mention putting volatile compounds into the atmosphere.

This is like every other forum, ask for advice and there's going to be contradiction, in this instance it says don't do it in the Nexus guide I'm following. It's then a case of choosing a path while trying not to offend those who have so generously offered advice.
I made this first batch before I'd heard of this site, using the "bucket chemistry" method described in the Chris Cantelmo youtube. Since that produced an acceptable first batch I'm trying to change as few things as possible with each new iteration, so evaporation will be a change that must wait anyway.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Solvent is expensive and is not good for the environment or anything in it. Sure, some will evaporate during the process, but why purposefully evaporate loads of it?
If you are reusing your solvent, which you obviously should, any DMT that has not precipitated during that freeze will still be there for the next time. If you are having to evaporate lots of solvent to get any crystals, then you should look to try and improve your practical technique.

 

[Varallo]

I don't mind messing with it, like I said above I'm not short of ingredients. But I'm no chemist and couldn't guarantee the precision of operation needed to ensure a meaningful comparison. Maybe some time after I've got my routine down

This is like every other forum, ask for advice and there's going to be contradiction, in this instance it says don't do it in the Nexus guide I'm following. It's then a case of choosing a path while trying not to offend those who have so generously offered advice.
I made this first batch before I'd heard of this site, using the "bucket chemistry" method described in the Chris Cantelmo youtube. Since that produced an acceptable first batch I'm trying to change as few things as possible with each new iteration, so evaporation will be a change that must wait anyway.

The only requirement is to work with the same materials and to carefully measure the amounts used. Aside from that, there should be no major variables affecting the outcome. I believe you are fully capable of carrying out this experiment, and doing so would be a real service to the community, as it would finally resolve the question, especially since evaporation at this stage is already common practice for many people and might not be necessary.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

'might'. It's an unnecessary, polluting waste.

 

[Varallo]

'might'. It's an unnecessary, polluting waste.

I understand your point, mentioning it once is enough, but evaporation may turn out to be necessary for practical reasons, even if it could be less desirable from an environmental perspective. If experiments show that it increases yield, it could be worth exploring how to do it in a way that minimizes solvent loss, for example by capturing and recovering the solvent (e.g., via distillation or another method), or by considering an alternative solvent.

You’ve now made essentially the same point three times, and the way it’s being repeated isn’t adding much to the discussion. The tone you’re using is also becoming less constructive.

This is something I’ve addressed with you before, and more recently I’ve also clarified what I consider important in how we discuss things here.

As a result, I’m giving you a one-week time-out. I believe it’s important that you take some time to reflect on your approach, and I hope that when you return you’ll be able to engage in discussions in a more constructive way.

Thank you for understanding.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

I understand your point, mentioning it once is enough, but evaporation may turn out to be necessary for practical reasons.

You’ve now made essentially the same point three times, and the way it’s being repeated isn’t adding much to the discussion. The tone you’re using is also becoming less constructive.

I was repeating myself to counter other's repetitions. The irony is not lost on me.
A serious question: Could you clarify what these practical reasons might be, please.

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

I looked closer at separating funnels by the way, cheap enough yes. But then I saw that you need support for them, and stands are eye watering. I'll be sticking with pipettes for a bit.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Have a look on AliExpress. Prices are surprisingly cheap.

Ensemble de support de support de laboratoire en acier avec base en fonte, 16

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[2^DqoeHy*97u]

Have a look on AliExpress. Prices are surprisingly cheap.

Ensemble de support de support de laboratoire en acier avec base en fonte, 16

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Oh that's more like it.