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Comparisons between 5-MeO & darkness retreat experiences

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Bancopuma

Bancopuma

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Really interesting description here of a 14 day darkness retreat, and some very intriguing parallels with 5-MeO/toad experiences...

"At one point in my meditation, my head opened and flooded with light. I watched and felt this quiet bliss and gladness take over and noticed that my body became pure vibration."

"I was absorbed into this light, and this light became the entirety of space around me until I was only this giant, radiant light-filled void. I was real and home again and bigger than a trillion of our suns."

"I was a gigantic bigger-than-all-concept-of-universe radiant unending shimmering ball of light emanating perfect compassion forever without cause."

"Even my experiences of perceiving the maya, of perceiving emptiness and suchness throughout my whole “life as Lindsey” as a spiritual seeker could not come close to this total absorption into self-remembering perfection of total...er...uh...beyond words and description annihilation into truth-light." ...etc.


I dig the whole vibe of going into darkness to find the light, this makes me very intrigued about experiencing a darkness retreat... 8)

Makes me curious as to whether there could possibly be a link between these experiences and that infamous pineal gland. The pineal gland, as well all know, is light sensitive and regulates our sleep/wake cycle through its production of melatonin in the absence of light. In most of our "normal" lives, the pineal gland does not experience prolonged darkness, lasting a week or more. So it seems feasible there is some kind of neurochemical changes that could be taking place.

Speculating further, the Taoists have a hypothesis, that in extended darkness, the pineal gland secretes melatonin, and once levels of melatonin cross a certain threshold, pinoline (endogenous MAOI) is produced, and once levels of this cross a certain threshold, then endogenous 5-MeO-DMT, and then DMT are produced. This is pure speculation of course, there is no evidence as yet to support this, but it makes for interesting pondering.


Interesting to note that according to some soon to be published 5-MeO-DMT brain imaging research mentioned in in Dr Geraldo Ruben Sandoval Isaac's book 'The God Molecule'..."upon neuroimaging a predominant increase in blood flow of the limbic system, medulla and pineal gland were noted" [under 5-MeO-DMT].

Anyway, the experiences described here or so incredibly similar to people's descriptions of 5-MeO-DMT experiences, I think this may be more than just coincidence, and it could be playing a role here. Would be fascinating to have more replication of such darkness retreats, as well as some research into the brain waves and neurochemical/hormonal changes over the course of the retreat...as far as I know there has been zero such research.
 
Wow 14 days of total darkness? Yeah no kidding these people are experiencing such things lol.

Maybe we are just these gods/beings/infinite lights and we are temporarily incarnated into these bodies to bring our dreams and essences into life in this physical realm.
When we are under extreme conditions that simulate death, we return into our original infinite forms.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that meditation/isolation chambers/NDE's all boost endogenous psychedelics. I've always thought that to be the case...

Here's another thread that you may find relevant :
 
Retreats like this have been going on for years now. When I first read about one online more than a decade back, it was on a website made by one group doing it, and they were explicitly claiming that the process induced endogenous 5-MeO-DMT production; they might have mentioned endogenous beta-carbolines too, I'll have to check if I still have the old printout of that website which is probably long-gone.

As has been pointed out, this appears feasible based on what we know about the relevant neurochemistry, but of course these people certainly could not say for sure that they knew this was what was happening. Given the nature of some of the experiences described, I'd agree there's probably something to it, but like Rick Strassman's DMT-related speculations in The Spirit Molecule, we are still in the realm of speculation rather than having any evidence.

Anyway, I still find it fascinating that such powerful experiences can be accessed simply by sitting in a dark enclosed pace for long periods. I wonder if there's any kind of neurochemical correlation to the opposite, ie. the 'white-out' that can be experienced in polar regions (or the Ganzfeld effect, or any other form of sensory deprivation for that matter)? It's often claimed that the brain can't deal with a void so it 'hallucinates' things to fill it, which I find not entirely convincing as a neurological explanation - especially because it is a 'decent guess' from the "visionary experiences are just hallucinations, nothing more" school of thought, rather than a scientifically proven fact.
Interestingly the Ganzfeld effect and flotation tanks work much more quickly than the darkness meditation.
 
I think those retreats you mention are Taoist retreats led by Mantak Chia. Their neurochemical hypothesis on what is occurring is certainly interesting, but as you point out speculation at the current point in time. (They propose that in prolonged darkness, the pineal gland secrets melatonin, and when levels extend beyond a certain threshold, pinoline, an endogenous MAOI is secreted, followed in turn by 5-MeO-DMT and DMT).


Notice the profound similarities between these four experiences, despite being triggered by very different things.

"I became Consciousness facing the Absolute. It had the brightness of myriad suns, yet it was not on the same continuum with any light I knew from everyday life. It seemed to be pure consciousness, intelligence and creative energy transcending all polarities. It was infinite and finite, divine and demonic, terrifying and ecstatic, creative and destructive..." – 5-MeO-DMT account (Stan Grof)

"As I neared the warm glowing radiance ahead of me, I felt pure ecstasy. I was in the beginning of the light. I was part of the light…It was as if I had come home. I had come home to the beginning of not just me but the beginning of all eternity." – NDE account (via Kenneth Ring)

"I was absorbed into this light, and this light became the entirety of space around me until I was only this giant, radiant light-filled void. I was real and home again and bigger than a trillion of our suns." – Darkness retreat account (Lindsey Vona)

"The illumination grew brighter and brighter, the roaring louder, I experienced a rocking sensation and then felt myself slipping out of my body, entirely enveloped in a halo of light. It is impossible to describe the experience accurately. I felt the point of consciousness that was myself growing wider surrounded by waves of light. It grew wider and wider, spreading outward while the body, normally the immediate object of its perception, appeared to have receded into the distance until I became entirely unconscious of it. I was now all consciousness without any outline, without any idea of corporeal appendage, without any feeling or sensation coming from the senses, immersed in a sea of light simultaneously conscious and aware at every point, spread out, as it were, in all directions without any barrier or material obstruction. I was no longer myself, or to be more accurate, no longer as I knew myself to be, a small point of awareness confined to a body, but instead was a vast circle of consciousness in which the body was but a point, bathed in light and in a state of exultation and happiness impossible to describe." – Account of Kundalini awakening (Gopi Krishna)

...all describe a sense of encountering a great light, a oneness with this light, a profound sense of ecstasy/bliss/love, a sense of infinity/eternity, and a sense of cosmic homecoming. Other very similar accounts crop up commonly among NDE and 5-MeO-DMT experiences, as well as OBE's, lucid dreams, psychedelics and spontaneous mystical experiences, and similar things have been described by meditators, yogi's and Taoists for a very long time. Intriguing how such different triggers can all seemingly lead to the same place.
 
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