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Considerations for "older" psychedelic "naïve" folks

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G

Gila

Rising Star
Good evening everybody, I hope this finds you all doing well.

I had a question about folks who foray into psychedelics as adults. Specifically, people who are middle aged and older.

I did not consider using these medicines until well into adulthood. Additionally, I have no past experiences to draw from. I do not drink alcohol and I have had absolutely no psychedelic experiences until essentially a couple of years ago. I do not even smoke or ingest cannibas.

My first experiences were with peyote and from what many have told me, the peyote experience is typically fairly "mild" in terms of the risk of psychological distress and negative psychological consequences. What literature I have seen also seems to generally agree with this notion as well. This has largely been true as most of my peyote experiences have been fantastic. Of course, I do experience a significant amount of abdominal pain and purging, but the purging is often cathartic. And not associated with any long term issues. I have had two peyote experiences that were much more intense and ego dissolving however. They involved significant auditory and visual changes, including visitations by intelligent entities that attempted to communicate with me. Again, I always felt pretty safe and almost "looked after" in these experiences however. Even when forced to confront ugly or uncomfortable issues, I generally feel as though "someone" is right there with me keeping me safe. Hopefully, this makes sense?

However, my first DMT experience was quite different. I had the initial "heart pounding" sensation with a good amount of anxiety followed by a sort of "blasting off" into an ocean of shapes and colours." I do not believe I broke thorough but I can appreciate that the DMT experience seems to be much more abrupt and less "controlled" than the peyote.

My question is, does my age potentially present with special problems/issues that I need to take into consideration? A few folks have told me that with age, some people may be less "open" or less willing to transition through ego loss, and this can possibly make the experience more difficult.

I always approach my experiences with an open mind, a great deal of respect and I take time (weeks to months) to really decompress and meditate following any experience with these medicines. While I try to be open, I do know I have probably developed biases from a lifetime of working in and around healthcare and the sciences. I probably bring these biases and other strongly developed patterns of thinking into these experiences where others may be more psychologically "flexible?"

I hope this question makes sense or perhaps resonates with somebody who has "been there?"
 
I tend to believe age is no measure for psychological flexibility, I've noticed hard-wired-ness and its opposite in all ages.

Maybe your question comes from experiencing something you want more control of? Have you been informed (or inform yourself) that a vaped spice is kind of pre agreeing with non control once the game is on?
Most of control when vaped is done prior inhale: set and setting, psychological tune, general life intents, your personality, kind of relations you have, etc, ... all very much determine the way the experience will expand on you. But then once inhaled, from there it rolls pretty much on an own inertia.
The construction of the second realm cannot take place without destruction of the former realm and any nature of "control" belongs to the former.

This degree of construction-destruction combo can be played with due dose, but then a lot of surprise in depth will spoil and fool rapidly the aimed level.

Pharma is an oral ROA that allows for much more control/steering plus more feeling of being guided - taken care of. There is still a variability in surprise-depth but all less acute. It becomes much more therapeutically, less sensory overload. The present harmalas will have a seat in the experience and modulate/moderate the spice take-over.
While the nature of pharma (rue or caapi + spice) is completely different from peyote, the control and steer ability comes close.

While both spice, the decision to have a vaped or pharma is very different, like choosing between a fast or slow pace.

:)
 
In terms of psychedelics once you've reached a certain level of maturity, age really is just a number. How one reacts to a psychedelic depends on a few factors like mental stability, environment, and again maturity. Being open to ego loss is entirely up to you, and if it is what you truly want you can achieve it.
 
You have arrived here asking great questions. That, to me, says it all. You are open to it.

I wish I could get my mother to smoke DMT. Even talking about it in front of her spins her into this state of squirmy discomfort that she will behave very poorly just to keep the thought out of her head. It is shocking how closed off she is. If I got her to ask questions like this, her entire world would begin changing and transforming immediately.
 
A few folks have told me that with age, some people may be less "open" or less willing to transition through ego loss, and this can possibly make the experience more difficult.
Click to expand...

Let me guess, they were all under 25?

While I did have extensive experience with them as a young man, returning to psychedelics several years ago at 42 was one of the most beneficial things I've done for myself.

The increased maturity, wisdom, and knowledge makes the experience so much more valuable in my mind. I had a fear that all the s### I've been through in the intervening years would cause difficulties like you suggest but that never materialized.

Another thing about dmt as opposed to other substances is that I really get *no* personal insight from it the way i do from psilocybin or lsd (the only others i have adult experience with). I find it to be more relevant to non physical or spiritual (ugh) things. Only from integrating do i begin to receive insight into personal matters related to living life.
 
For me, the only downside to doing it as someone a bit older (I'm 40) is that the older you get the less simple life becomes and the more things you have to deal with, which gives you more blockages to work through. When you (well when I) are young you have few responsibilities, less to weigh you down into this reality and taking off without concern or baggage is a lot easier.

I think it can probably be more therapeutic for you as you get older but can also be harder work.

Personal perspective, obviously ymmv.
 
Different times bring different challenges ego-wise. It may be that the older you get, the more you get set in your ways. But young people are often suffering from grandiose delusions in terms of their general self-efficacy. That sometimes leads to hyperslaps.

From reading your post, i do not believe that you are at a disadvantage at all.
I see it as you letting go of preconceptions by running through them verbally. We all turned out a certain way wether we now want it or not. It's ok, it really is in the end.

Being overwhelmed by your first DMT freebase expoerience can be overwhelming and it probably is for everyone. Especially if you are not used to the sheer intensity, which can certainly surprise. For me, i didn't know before that effects on your body are also quite extreme...

After a few times the feeling morphed more into that of being disintegrated by a soul massaging force . The bbest advice one can give you is to just allow it to happen, to present yourself as who you are, completly honest...to "stand naked before god" so to speak. You don't have to believe in it to be god, but it certainly is a force that knows every secret of yours, where you stand in life ..your sins and secret pleasures - but accepts you for who you are if you allow it to.
 
obliguhl said:
Different times bring different challenges ego-wise. It may be that the older you get, the more you get set in your ways. But young people are often suffering from grandiose delusions in terms of their general self-efficacy. That sometimes leads to hyperslaps.

From reading your post, i do not believe that you are at a disadvantage at all.
I see it as you letting go of preconceptions by running through them verbally. We all turned out a certain way wether we now want it or not. It's ok, it really is in the end.

Being overwhelmed by your first DMT freebase expoerience can be overwhelming and it probably is for everyone. Especially if you are not used to the sheer intensity, which can certainly surprise. For me, i didn't know before that effects on your body are also quite extreme...

After a few times the feeling morphed more into that of being disintegrated by a soul massaging force . The bbest advice one can give you is to just allow it to happen, to present yourself as who you are, completly honest...to "stand naked before god" so to speak. You don't have to believe in it to be god, but it certainly is a force that knows every secret of yours, where you stand in life ..your sins and secret pleasures - but accepts you for who you are if you allow it to.
Click to expand...


this is true, in fact it can lead to slaps all round, not just in hyperspace. :lol:
 
I do not think age is an issue unless you're in poor health. Think about that lady shamans in Mexico eating all that mushrooms well into their ages. There were countless shamans in the Amazons drink the brews well into old ages. To them, these are medicines and tools to connect us with the spiritual world.
 
null24 said:
A few folks have told me that with age, some people may be less "open" or less willing to transition through ego loss, and this can possibly make the experience more difficult.
Click to expand...

Let me guess, they were all under 25?

While I did have extensive experience with them as a young man, returning to psychedelics several years ago at 42 was one of the most beneficial things I've done for myself.

The increased maturity, wisdom, and knowledge makes the experience so much more valuable in my mind. I had a fear that all the s### I've been through in the intervening years would cause difficulties like you suggest but that never materialized.

Another thing about dmt as opposed to other substances is that I really get *no* personal insight from it the way i do from psilocybin or lsd (the only others i have adult experience with). I find it to be more relevant to non physical or spiritual (ugh) things. Only from integrating do i begin to receive insight into personal matters related to living life.
Click to expand...

For me I am so glad to have returned at an older wiser age as well. I do my best to stay fit and eat right. I think it is important to take caution if we have high blood pressure etc...
 
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