Exp. Report Powerful experience following ketamine + DMT combination

[blig-blug]

Yesterday I had an extremely powerful experience.

I was having a ketamine session, which now I have once a month. The dose was pretty heavy, and it seems I've learned to administrate it better than in the past, as it came up much faster than usual.

The session itself was powerful but with little meaning. It seemed to be focused on death, as usual for ketamine, but in a very material way. I felt myself as a clump of atoms, undifferentiated from all other atoms in the universe. I could see how the atoms that currently form me (or their components) will be here forever, mixing with everything else. It had a feeling of "don't worry about this", but in the sense that reality seemed utterly meaningless, like billiard balls clashing against each other for eternity for no reason. I could see that there was an aspect of reality and myself (and everyone else missing there), but couldn't pinpoint it in the moment. This was not as grim as it sounds, it had a kind of comfort and consolation to it. But I have had those experiences already quite a few times, and they just don't have much depth.

For some reason, once I could move it immediately felt right to take DMT. I hadn't planned on it.
Using my vape, very small puffs resulted in an extremely intense experience. That immediately brought what "was missing" with overwhelming power: Life, Spirit, Divinity, however one wants to call it. I felt my typical "overheating" I often feel with oral brews, something that seems to indicate that I've been in that situation before in a situation of extreme danger, and that I'm at risk of dying. I was able to accept it and let the energy course through me, and reality fold in itself revealing the game and dance of reality, with no meaning beyond itself, but at the same time more meaningful than anything else.

I traversed that veil several times, trying to surrender as much as possible. I could see how I live in fear and vigilance all the time, even when I'm alone, trying to find danger and protect myself (e.g. always back to the wall, never turning my back to the door in a room, etc.). I felt that fear but was able to accept it too, and it resulted in more energy coursing through me.

Once it became possible for me to move again (from the effects of DMT), I felt an imperious urge to shake, breath very strongly, and scream. I did it, and then suddenly my movements became rhythmical. For a moment I resisted, but then I let my body move on its own to the music, dancing wildly. I accepted it and felt extremely alive as I danced and danced (first on my knees, then I was able to stand up), "refueling" with small amounts of DMT from time to time and going back to the dance as soon as I was back into my body. At that point, a 2 seconds puff (according to the screen in my mod, as to me the inhalation felt like it lasted 10 seconds or more) was enough to send me to the other side for an indefinite time (it may have been just a few minutes each time, I really have no idea).

It seems that ketamine helped by temporarily lowering inhibition and hypervigilance. I realized how much I feel in danger at all times, and thus close myself to these energies when they appear. Now, having experienced for the first time in my life this kind of freedom (including dancing without any judgement for the first time), it points the path to follow. And I'll have to continue working on this, with oral brews (and maybe cactus), and of course in my day to day awareness.

Then, as I was listening to kirtan, I decided to sing it. At first it was difficult because I couldn't control my throat well, but then it started pouring out on its own, and I felt the vibrations in my throat become one with the vibration in everything else.

The music (Krishna Das, thanks @northape) started "decomposing" in many different, strange voices. And it seemed as if little beings that compose reality (and therefore, me) were all singing it, swirling. The traditional idea of the angels signing around God comes to mind. It's as if reality itself were a circular dance around the always still, unmoving, empty center.

I'm not sure what it says about me that it took a massive k-hole dose of ketamine, plus repeated DMT, for me to just be able to dance and sing freely. In any case, I'm very happy I was able to. Now I know how it feels, and I hope one day I'll be able to just do that in a sober state, even if it's only when I'm alone. I've also gained a new appreciation for the act of dancing, which I never fully "got" before and seemed to me somewhat stupid (even if in theory I knew that it wasn't).

I know this is a bit all over the place. I'm still integrating the experience, and its intensity (plus the sudden, violent, abrupt shift from ketamine soulessness and death to DMT cosmic spirituality) makes it difficult to explain as a coherent whole, there are many parts that I'm omitting.

 

[northape]

And it seemed as if little beings that compose reality (and therefore, me) were all singing it, swirling. The traditional idea of the angels signing around God comes to mind. It's as if reality itself were a circular dance around the always still, unmoving, empty center.

As they say, the name is the deity itself. Krishna Das occasionally jokes, "One day you'll call Ram for real, and he'll answer."
Whatever the case, these kirtan songs are very safe and will only do you good. I've tested it to the bone

 

[Transform]

Hm, yesterday I was re-reading the section of John Lilly's "The Scientist" where he goes into detail about has phenomenal ketamine binge, so your report stacks up quite nicely as a counterpoint.

Life, Spirit, Divinity

interesting choice of sequence - is that hinting at a plan for cementing some of this through a… lengthier experience?

 

[blig-blug]

Hm, yesterday I was re-reading the section of John Lilly's "The Scientist" where he goes into detail about has phenomenal ketamine binge, so your report stacks up quite nicely as a counterpoint.

I'm not sure if it's due to a difference in sensitivity, or because he injected ketamine instead of insufflating it, but I've never had experiences of the kind he mentions. I've had the experience of traveling through different dimensions there, but they tended to seem empty and dead, with the exception of a sun-like ball that has appeared sometimes. Another exception is an occasion where I had the delusional experience of contacting specific Nexus members in that space (???!!!!).

I've gotten some benefit from ketamine in the past, mostly in periods of unstable and depressive mood. The matter-of-fact experience of death I tend to have there brought some comfort, as I mentioned, and relativized my problems. I think overall I've gotten more comfort than useful progress or insight. Comfort can be useful but can also be dangerous. I tried a larger dose than usual this time to see if that would help going deeper, but it didn't. It only made even more believable the idea that I had died. I think this experience can be useful the first time, but after the Nth time of idly wondering if you are actually dead there's not much more to get from that. At least not for me.

interesting choice of sequence - is that hinting at a plan for cementing some of this through a… lengthier experience?

Ha, I didn't even realize! I wrote that part while still under the effects, so I wonder if it was subconscious. It does sound like a good idea at some point of the summer. I want to pace myself, as today I've been feeling very inclined to contemplate spiritual and philosophical ideas to some detriment of doing my day to day tasks.

 

[taita]

I've also gained a new appreciation for the act of dancing, which I never fully "got" before and seemed to me somewhat stupid (even if in theory I knew that it wasn't).

We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance
And if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine

I say, we can go where we want to
A place where they'll never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
We can dance

--Men without Hats

Dance is one of the supreme medicines, imo. Welcome back to your deeper humanity

 

[Jamie01]

I get the death trips as well with ketamine. It helps me with anxiety around death if I get caught up worrying about my health etc . I have had times where I obsess about things like maybe I have cancer etc and it gets hard to function. Ketamine has helped me to relax into the idea that we will all die anyway.

It’s such a weird drug.

 

[redbird]

I think this experience can be useful the first time, but after the Nth time of idly wondering if you are actually dead there's not much more to get from that. At least not for me.

I wonder if this pattern you've experienced is a symptom of that fear/hypervigilance you described becoming aware of and loosening.
I would be curious to see if you can pay attention to that hypervigilance and cultivate more awareness around it, if it starts to shift not just your day to day experience but also the types of experience you have in ketamine space.

 

[blig-blug]

I get the death trips as well with ketamine. It helps me with anxiety around death if I get caught up worrying about my health etc . I have had times where I obsess about things like maybe I have cancer etc and it gets hard to function. Ketamine has helped me to relax into the idea that we will all die anyway.

Yes, I imagine it can be helpful in that way. As if death really is something like that, there's not much to worry about.

I wonder if this pattern you've experienced is a symptom of that fear/hypervigilance you described becoming aware of and loosening.

I had thought it may be the opposite: the hypervigilance leading me to trying to "stay" in this reality, and the result being an apparent death instead of some more transcendent experience. Hard to say, as in the k-hole one can't think in a normal way, in my case I can barely think at all.

I would be curious to see if you can pay attention to that hypervigilance and cultivate more awareness around it, if it starts to shift not just your day to day experience but also the types of experience you have in ketamine space.

That's my intention. My current setting is good for that too, as I'm in a very quiet place, close to nature, where there rarely are any strangers, and I will be spending a lot of time alone once my girlfriend leaves for the summer. So there are close to zero rational reasons to be hypervigilant. I will still be because I am so at every second, but when it becomes stronger I aim to embrace it and try to feel the physical sensations of danger as energy.

 

[blig-blug]

An update on this:

On retrospective, the ketamine dose seems to have been unnecessarily heavy. Coupled with a heat wave, proximity to the solstice (lots of light) and a period of more tension with my girlfriend, it seems to have pushed me in an hypomanic direction. It doesn't reach the level of hypomania, but I have excessive energy (in a nervous sense) that doesn't actually translate to physical energy, much more irritability, feelings of mental exhaustion compared with feeling "wired", and find myself waking up at 4AM with nervous energy and unable to go back to sleep, even though I clearly feel sleep deprived.

Yesterday I took a very long acting (the effects last about three days), relatively mind benzodiacepine (clorazepate) that I have prescribed to use in cases of excessive stress. It usually makes me a bit too sleepy, but it hasn't made a dent on that aspect of this (it has helped with irritability at least). Today I've slept just four hours, and although I feel physically and mentally tired, I'm not sleepy at all and feel overly energized.

This was not evident the day after, and now it's improving. It's also a well documented kind of reaction to ketamine. Given that my mood and energy levels are very noticeably affected by seasonal and weather changes, it may be that late spring and summer aren't a good moment for me to have ketamine or other similar dissociatives. Or at least not in very high doses. I started experimenting with it towards the second half of autumn, and it gave me some relief from my winter seasonal affective disorder, so it all makes sense.

I'm glad it didn't trigger a full hypomanic state and I'm still thankful for the experience it made possible, which I'm still integrating. But the large dosing was a mistake. And I'll be abstaining from it for the coming weeks (at the very least) to avoid triggering these symptoms or something worse.

I'd caution anyone with season and weather-related cyclothymia to be cautious with ketamine in the summer.

 

[northape]

Take care of yourself and thanks for the update.

I can say that my biggest openings on medicine were right after a strong dose bordering on an overdose. These lessons were the most transformative, but I was the most unstable after them too. My conclusion was that our body is like a fine-tuned instrument, and when you change your frequency a bit, there is still inertia left and it needs time to readjust. It becomes apparent with big psychological shifts. So it could be both beneficial and hard at the same time. At least that's the story I came up with for myself.

Given that you can see what's going on, you're in a safe spot already.

 

[Transform]

We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
'Cause your friends don't dance
And if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine

I say, we can go where we want to
A place where they'll never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
We can dance

--Men without Hats

Dance is one of the supreme medicines, imo. Welcome back to your deeper humanity

Let's get @blig-blug into the vault…

 

[Transform]

An update on this:

On retrospective, the ketamine dose seems to have been unnecessarily heavy. Coupled with a heat wave, proximity to the solstice (lots of light) and a period of more tension with my girlfriend, it seems to have pushed me in an hypomanic direction. It doesn't reach the level of hypomania, but I have excessive energy (in a nervous sense) that doesn't actually translate to physical energy, much more irritability, feelings of mental exhaustion compared with feeling "wired", and find myself waking up at 4AM with nervous energy and unable to go back to sleep, even though I clearly feel sleep deprived.

Yesterday I took a very long acting (the effects last about three days), relatively mind benzodiacepine (clorazepate) that I have prescribed to use in cases of excessive stress. It usually makes me a bit too sleepy, but it hasn't made a dent on that aspect of this (it has helped with irritability at least). Today I've slept just four hours, and although I feel physically and mentally tired, I'm not sleepy at all and feel overly energized.

This was not evident the day after, and now it's improving. It's also a well documented kind of reaction to ketamine. Given that my mood and energy levels are very noticeably affected by seasonal and weather changes, it may be that late spring and summer aren't a good moment for me to have ketamine or other similar dissociatives. Or at least not in very high doses. I started experimenting with it towards the second half of autumn, and it gave me some relief from my winter seasonal affective disorder, so it all makes sense.

I'm glad it didn't trigger a full hypomanic state and I'm still thankful for the experience it made possible, which I'm still integrating. But the large dosing was a mistake. And I'll be abstaining from it for the coming weeks (at the very least) to avoid triggering these symptoms or something worse.

I'd caution anyone with season and weather-related cyclothymia to be cautious with ketamine in the summer.

Bit of a footnote to this, I'm getting a similar thing with the sleep patterns, seemingly solely on account of the midsummer vibe (and, OK maybe a couple of early-morning thunderstorms. And bedtime wormwood tea - there I was, about to say 'unmedicated'!) No ketamine or other 'strong' stuff, normal levels of caffeine - oh, and the usual generous pinch of rue of course.

Tangentially, I'd suggest maybe trying a sweat lodge, if you feel your state of medication allows for it.

Anyway, I hope you've been able to focus all this energy into a bunch of wholesome and productive activities.

 

[blig-blug]

Tangentially, I'd suggest maybe trying a sweat lodge, if you feel your state of medication allows for it.

Have you experienced this helping with hypomanic type states in the past? I have never tried it.

Anyway, I hope you've been able to focus all this energy into a bunch of wholesome and productive activities.

The energy this time was a bit chaotic, and the tendency seemed to be irritability and worry. At least it was good training in redirecting those and calming down.

Since yesterday, I'm back to a normal state of energy, able to sleep well, etc. So it wasn't a very prolonged episode, nor did it result in any major issues. Still, it may be the best for me to not use ketamine during the summer.

 

[yatyas314]

Sounds like its what you needed, and Northape is right on with his assessment. I like big experiences and the weirder the better.
Now you mentioned fear and vigilance, the enemy of sleep and of comfort. I have struggled with these my whole life and still do, it sounds like your on the right path. wether its Ketamine or dmt exposing these things and shining a light on them is a good strategy and your mindful of yourself from what your writing. It feels like your right on and when you get some good sleep and think back to this you will smile at the dancing Blug.
Y

 

[Transform]

I've been a bit skittish and chaotic due to a time specific appointment earlier today. My conclusion - thanks to your thread here - is that I really need to go out dancing all night somewhere in the countryside

 

[Jamie01]

blig blug why do you think this happened after ketamine? A rebound effect where activity at the glutamate receptor is increased?

I notice that I can have low level panic attacks and anxiety/ can’t sleep for about a day after taking glutamine. I figure it it’s excess glutamate.

 

[blig-blug]

blig blug why do you think this happened after ketamine? A rebound effect where activity at the glutamate receptor is increased?

Yes, I think that's the pharmacological reason, if ketamine was really the cause. There are some case studies one can find where ketamine triggered mania or hypomania in bipolar people. I don't have bipolar, but do have pronounced mood cycles. Ketamine helped me in the winter in that way, and it seems that it could be a bit too much in the summer.

From what I've read, this tendency to trigger mania or hypomania is much more pronounced in other arylcyclohexylamines like PCP (and apparently even more extreme in 3-MeO-PCP and 3-MeO-PCE).

The dose was also unnecessarily large (almost 300mg) and I had no tolerance, so that likely contributed as well. Plus, it seems that I finally learned to snort it efficiently.

If I try again during the summer (in a month or so), I'll keep my dose much lower, not even aiming for the k-hole, to combine it with DMT again.

 

[smoalkiest]

Yesterday I had an extremely powerful experience.

I was having a ketamine session, which now I have once a month. The dose was pretty heavy, and it seems I've learned to administrate it better than in the past, as it came up much faster than usual.

The session itself was powerful but with little meaning. It seemed to be focused on death, as usual for ketamine, but in a very material way. I felt myself as a clump of atoms, undifferentiated from all other atoms in the universe. I could see how the atoms that currently form me (or their components) will be here forever, mixing with everything else. It had a feeling of "don't worry about this", but in the sense that reality seemed utterly meaningless, like billiard balls clashing against each other for eternity for no reason. I could see that there was an aspect of reality and myself (and everyone else missing there), but couldn't pinpoint it in the moment. This was not as grim as it sounds, it had a kind of comfort and consolation to it. But I have had those experiences already quite a few times, and they just don't have much depth.

For some reason, once I could move it immediately felt right to take DMT. I hadn't planned on it.
Using my vape, very small puffs resulted in an extremely intense experience. That immediately brought what "was missing" with overwhelming power: Life, Spirit, Divinity, however one wants to call it. I felt my typical "overheating" I often feel with oral brews, something that seems to indicate that I've been in that situation before in a situation of extreme danger, and that I'm at risk of dying. I was able to accept it and let the energy course through me, and reality fold in itself revealing the game and dance of reality, with no meaning beyond itself, but at the same time more meaningful than anything else.

I traversed that veil several times, trying to surrender as much as possible. I could see how I live in fear and vigilance all the time, even when I'm alone, trying to find danger and protect myself (e.g. always back to the wall, never turning my back to the door in a room, etc.). I felt that fear but was able to accept it too, and it resulted in more energy coursing through me.

Once it became possible for me to move again (from the effects of DMT), I felt an imperious urge to shake, breath very strongly, and scream. I did it, and then suddenly my movements became rhythmical. For a moment I resisted, but then I let my body move on its own to the music, dancing wildly. I accepted it and felt extremely alive as I danced and danced (first on my knees, then I was able to stand up), "refueling" with small amounts of DMT from time to time and going back to the dance as soon as I was back into my body. At that point, a 2 seconds puff (according to the screen in my mod, as to me the inhalation felt like it lasted 10 seconds or more) was enough to send me to the other side for an indefinite time (it may have been just a few minutes each time, I really have no idea).

It seems that ketamine helped by temporarily lowering inhibition and hypervigilance. I realized how much I feel in danger at all times, and thus close myself to these energies when they appear. Now, having experienced for the first time in my life this kind of freedom (including dancing without any judgement for the first time), it points the path to follow. And I'll have to continue working on this, with oral brews (and maybe cactus), and of course in my day to day awareness.

Then, as I was listening to kirtan, I decided to sing it. At first it was difficult because I couldn't control my throat well, but then it started pouring out on its own, and I felt the vibrations in my throat become one with the vibration in everything else.

The music (Krishna Das, thanks @northape) started "decomposing" in many different, strange voices. And it seemed as if little beings that compose reality (and therefore, me) were all singing it, swirling. The traditional idea of the angels signing around God comes to mind. It's as if reality itself were a circular dance around the always still, unmoving, empty center.

I'm not sure what it says about me that it took a massive k-hole dose of ketamine, plus repeated DMT, for me to just be able to dance and sing freely. In any case, I'm very happy I was able to. Now I know how it feels, and I hope one day I'll be able to just do that in a sober state, even if it's only when I'm alone. I've also gained a new appreciation for the act of dancing, which I never fully "got" before and seemed to me somewhat stupid (even if in theory I knew that it wasn't).

I know this is a bit all over the place. I'm still integrating the experience, and its intensity (plus the sudden, violent, abrupt shift from ketamine soulessness and death to DMT cosmic spirituality) makes it difficult to explain as a coherent whole, there are many parts that I'm omitting.

It's cool u mentioned dancing as on ketamine is the only way I can loosen my inhibitions to actually dance and not be too in my head Abt it.

Thank you so much for ur incredible post! Everyone here is so cool. And u definitely solidified it for me I need to take k with my DMT fs. From what everyone's saying it just seems like the ying and yang should go together perfectly