seasonsintheabyss
Rising Star
edit: in the clear
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Crown and Klean strip VMP have changed chemically.
- Thread starter Running Bear
- Start date
Running Bear
Rising Star
It does look a little clouded but that could be from the temperature or it being previously used. The Vinegar looks clean which is good. After I run out of klean strip i'll never buy it again.
seasonsintheabyss
Rising Star
Yeah, it does look clouded so I wasn't sure. It wasn't previously used, but since the vinegar has no clouding I was hoping it's okay. Plus the end result came out perfect looking.
Recently purchased klean strip vm&p from a local big chain home/hardware store.
Evap tested it and not a trace of anything on the dish, no residue no nothing, same for me as all the past times i've used it.
So idk. 8)
Evap tested it and not a trace of anything on the dish, no residue no nothing, same for me as all the past times i've used it.
So idk. 8)
Running Bear
Rising Star
Tattvamasi said:
I evap tested the impure klean stip that I purchased and it also had no residue. I think its some form of drying agent but i'm no expert. The DMT that I extracted with the naphtha still burned my throat and lips. I dried the DMT for 3 days so it was completely dry. I would always acid and evap test your naphtha. Its cheap so why not do it.
TimePantry
It's a field.
As I mentioned in the other thread about this, the effect of the adulterant on my spice seemed to be that it would not evaporate out of the spice, even after days. I would melt some in a dish, pick it up with some chore boy to put it in my vanilla bottle VG, and then as soon as the spice liquified, a bunch of petrochemical would run down the wick and catch fire. Scary how long it would burn too; indicating the presence of quite a lot of it in seemingly dry spice.
This is after freeze evap, pouring off all the solvent, then drying under a fan for hours. And also the same spice after drying for days in very hot weather. Perhaps it is a drying agent that helps the volatiles escape at the cost of leaving a lot of heavier chemicals behind. Another thing I have noticed is that after using this solvent in a strong soup of basified MHRB, it comes back out absolutely colorless and pristine. I have NEVER seen naphtha do that before; before it always picked up color whenever it picked up spice.
For some reason that creeps me out. What would make a solvent not pick up any of a strong pigment?
This is after freeze evap, pouring off all the solvent, then drying under a fan for hours. And also the same spice after drying for days in very hot weather. Perhaps it is a drying agent that helps the volatiles escape at the cost of leaving a lot of heavier chemicals behind. Another thing I have noticed is that after using this solvent in a strong soup of basified MHRB, it comes back out absolutely colorless and pristine. I have NEVER seen naphtha do that before; before it always picked up color whenever it picked up spice.
For some reason that creeps me out. What would make a solvent not pick up any of a strong pigment?
TimePantry
It's a field.
I found this page, which seems to suggest that solvent formulations have been changed to conform with EPA regulations.
concombres
Rising Star
TimePantry said:
The reading is a little bit over my head there but from what I gather it looks like technical grade hydrocarbon solvents are becoming more & more subject to very vague MSDS with little to no mention of the actual formulation of the solvent blend.
What makes things even worse, these brands seem to rarely update their seemingly useless MSDS & even when they do one store may have some produced years ago & another may have a batch produced last week.
The more I learn about the regulations, production, & labelling of technical grade solvents, the more shady & unsafe they begin to look.
It would be nice if they would list a batch number & the exact composition of the batch on the cans. Something more along the lines of a boiling fraction or listing exactly which light aliphatic hydrocarbons & other volatile or non votalile compounds are present, but then it does not matter to these companies because the solvents are not made to be used to produce anything being consumed by humans. :thumb_dow
1ce
Communications-Security Analyst
concombres said:
And thats the thing. You get what ypu pay for intelectually, and financially. Naptha works for a low cost minimal amount of effort.
But many other solvents can be made/extraxted that are far superior to our use. The loss of naptha doesn't herald the end of the world, it just indicates that more effort may or may not be required in thefuture.
To be fair, there's not much that can be said about naptha other than the fact it is conveneint. But it also taked large quantities to use, thus wasteful. It is a detection/flammability hazard due to the large quantities evaporated. I'm sure naptha amd lighter fluid will always be around for us to use, but there are definitely dlternatives if it seems shady in any way.
1ce
Communications-Security Analyst
ducdevil said:
methylene chloride or methylene trichloride. I have both. I reuse them amd it takes very very little. For my needs and purposes it's cheaper than naptha. For recrystallization (in a perfect world) I'd use diethyl ether/hexane. But this is not a perfect world and I'm lazy, so I have to cut corners somewhere. Boiling heptane it is! But there are many many alternatives from the eco-teks to the most effective.
What about you?
concombres
Rising Star
1ce said:
I hear what your saying ICE.
What solvent would you reccommend for the average kitchen chemist with limited access to equipment?
I mean I do like the limonene teks but from the document posted above it looks like even acetone is subjected to these formulation changes & they don`t look to be getting any more detailed with their MSDS.
Red Eclipse
Rising Star
While more expensive than naphtha you could just use BESTINE brand heptane for your whole extraction. This is recommended for recrystallization but it behaves the same as naphtha, right?
darnell
Rising Star
N-heptane is very selective and will give a clean product. there is a corelation between heptanes temp and the amount of DMT it holds. Awesome for re-x. It was used for a couple pulls once when naphtha ran out too soon, but dude forgot to set them aside so one was unable to compare with the naphtha pulls. Doh!
On a completely separate subject; it is a lot of fun to shop at local lab supply merchants. Sorry...ADD:|
Anyway.... had some DCM but it was so volatile that it evapped...while in a glass bottle with a good seal....in the fridge! This was a tremendous chemical for the extraction process, just make sure you have an efficient set up cause it disappears fast....easy to be inadvertently wasteful with. And it requires a clean up step. But if you get a pimp baller setup it can be collected and reused. CAUTION is a must with this stuff though. ...well really with any of it...just some consequences are worse than other, potentially.
If this news about KS brand is legit thats sad:x ....I lost my spice pullin virginity wit that dutty, dutty strip! But the clever traveler can find another route, fo sho!
Wonder what other folks would use if they had anything to choose from.
On a completely separate subject; it is a lot of fun to shop at local lab supply merchants. Sorry...ADD:|
Anyway.... had some DCM but it was so volatile that it evapped...while in a glass bottle with a good seal....in the fridge! This was a tremendous chemical for the extraction process, just make sure you have an efficient set up cause it disappears fast....easy to be inadvertently wasteful with. And it requires a clean up step. But if you get a pimp baller setup it can be collected and reused. CAUTION is a must with this stuff though. ...well really with any of it...just some consequences are worse than other, potentially.
If this news about KS brand is legit thats sad:x ....I lost my spice pullin virginity wit that dutty, dutty strip! But the clever traveler can find another route, fo sho!
Wonder what other folks would use if they had anything to choose from.
syberdelic
Rising Star
Naptha or "white gas" is traditionally a fractional distillation of crude oil. It will generally be what comes off the column at x to x+n height. They aren't intentionally adding things to the "formula" because that would add cost. There is the possibility that they could be adding volatiles that fit within the evaporation profile in order to maximize their return on investment for $10/gallon rather than $2/gallon for gasoline. The MSDS has to be vague in this aspect because the number of possible chemicals that can be distilled from crude oil at that window of fractional distillation is probably into the hundreds. The intended customers for this product care about three things; predictable evaporation rate, clean drying, and non-reactive with plastics/synthetics. This sort of impurity would have the potential to ruin a paint job.
My best guess as to what the impurity is would be a wax or paraffin that was accidentally added into the mix by contact before containerizing. If this is the case, a strong A/B reaction should do the trick if it's a very small amount.
If this is in the product when doing a recrystallization, a portion would crash out with the DMT. It would need to be cleaned before using it to do an extraction.
My best guess as to what the impurity is would be a wax or paraffin that was accidentally added into the mix by contact before containerizing. If this is the case, a strong A/B reaction should do the trick if it's a very small amount.
If this is in the product when doing a recrystallization, a portion would crash out with the DMT. It would need to be cleaned before using it to do an extraction.
syberrr... 
glad to see you made it to CO safely.
my san pedros took a hit with these cold snaps, going to extract soon, and analyze.
mods, I highly suggest promoting syberdelic. I've personally known him since 2002, 2003, and can vouch for him. he lived down the road from me, has a good understanding of chemistry. he's also knowledgable about the traditional/historical use of entheogens, ethnobotany, philosophy, electronics, and is very skillful with metalworking and carpentry. he's very civil, and mild-mannered; an excellent addition to the nexus. he's a rather technical and pensive person, and his post quality will reflect that.
and he loves cats.
glad to see you made it to CO safely.
my san pedros took a hit with these cold snaps, going to extract soon, and analyze.
mods, I highly suggest promoting syberdelic. I've personally known him since 2002, 2003, and can vouch for him. he lived down the road from me, has a good understanding of chemistry. he's also knowledgable about the traditional/historical use of entheogens, ethnobotany, philosophy, electronics, and is very skillful with metalworking and carpentry. he's very civil, and mild-mannered; an excellent addition to the nexus. he's a rather technical and pensive person, and his post quality will reflect that.
and he loves cats.
syberdelic
Rising Star
Thanks for vouching for me.
Just did a San Pedro extraction myself and learned a few things along the way. Contrary to what I had heard, Naptha is a VERY poor solvent for San Pedro's goodies. Xylene works great. Also, if I repeat this, I will go straight to base, do an alcohol extraction, and evaporate as the first step. Aqueous acid extract is just super messy. But of course, your' setup should be far superior for the initial extract. Also, found that the citrate salt although requires +50% by weight is far easier on the stomach
Just did a San Pedro extraction myself and learned a few things along the way. Contrary to what I had heard, Naptha is a VERY poor solvent for San Pedro's goodies. Xylene works great. Also, if I repeat this, I will go straight to base, do an alcohol extraction, and evaporate as the first step. Aqueous acid extract is just super messy. But of course, your' setup should be far superior for the initial extract. Also, found that the citrate salt although requires +50% by weight is far easier on the stomach
syberdelic
Rising Star
I have repeated your experiment with the same results using known good naptha and glacial acetic acid, creating a nearly opaque white solution.
I think this is what's happening;
The acetic acid (vinegar) is attaching itself to paraffins and turning them into paraffin acetates which becomes slightly soluble in the polar solvent and thus turns the polar solution cloudy as the chemicals are constantly dissolving and crashing out. If these are the more aromatic portions of the paraffins, they will take longer but still evaporate and leave a clean surface.
I'm not entirely sure this is how it would work, so maybe Benzyme could confirm or deny this. If true, it doesn't change anything functionally except for longer evaporation times.
I think this is what's happening;
The acetic acid (vinegar) is attaching itself to paraffins and turning them into paraffin acetates which becomes slightly soluble in the polar solvent and thus turns the polar solution cloudy as the chemicals are constantly dissolving and crashing out. If these are the more aromatic portions of the paraffins, they will take longer but still evaporate and leave a clean surface.
I'm not entirely sure this is how it would work, so maybe Benzyme could confirm or deny this. If true, it doesn't change anything functionally except for longer evaporation times.