• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Crown and Klean strip VMP have changed chemically.

Migrated topic.
I'm not going to tell you that it's ok because I don't want to be responsible if something happens 2 you. Look at the pictures and make your own decision. Make sure you re-x with
heptane. If it doesn't burn you're probably ok. Remember you can always clean dirty DMT.
 
No, I understand. A better question would have been, from the pic I posted IYE does it look about right. But thank you for all your replies, very helpful.
 
I don't think there's much of a consensus on this.

* If you wash the naphtha in an acid, it should reduce the amount of the unknown chemicals.

* The unknown chemicals don't seem to translate into the final product via re-x.
 
That's somewhat of a relief. I'm no chemist so I'm having trouble understanding...

When mixing an acidic vinegar solution with the NPS in question it causes an unknown "salt?" to appear in the vinegar, however when the NPS that has not been in contact with an acid is evaporated it leaves no residue.

It was mentioned in a previous comment that the re-x left no trace of contamination.

Is it logical to presume that the unknown contaminant remains in the NPS after freeze precipitation or does it somehow combine with the DMT suspended in the NPS causing a contaminated product when it crashes out?
 
Charoite said:
That's somewhat of a relief. I'm no chemist so I'm having trouble understanding...

When mixing an acidic vinegar solution with the NPS in question it causes an unknown "salt?" to appear in the vinegar, however when the NPS that has not been in contact with an acid is evaporated it leaves no residue.

It was mentioned in a previous comment that the re-x left no trace of contamination.

Is it logical to presume that the unknown contaminant remains in the NPS after freeze precipitation or does it somehow combine with the DMT suspended in the NPS causing a contaminated product when it crashes out?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding. And yes, the unknowns seem to stay in solution for re-x and gets poured off.

The evap test is where things get weird. The unknowns easily salt out with weak acid, but otherwise evaporate off along with the naphtha. If they were lighter chemicals, this would make sense, but with molecular weights in the 800s, this is a bit confusing.
 
syberdelic said:
Charoite said:
That's somewhat of a relief. I'm no chemist so I'm having trouble understanding...

When mixing an acidic vinegar solution with the NPS in question it causes an unknown "salt?" to appear in the vinegar, however when the NPS that has not been in contact with an acid is evaporated it leaves no residue.

It was mentioned in a previous comment that the re-x left no trace of contamination.

Is it logical to presume that the unknown contaminant remains in the NPS after freeze precipitation or does it somehow combine with the DMT suspended in the NPS causing a contaminated product when it crashes out?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding. And yes, the unknowns seem to stay in solution for re-x and gets poured off.

The evap test is where things get weird. The unknowns easily salt out with weak acid, but otherwise evaporate off along with the naphtha. If they were lighter chemicals, this would make sense, but with molecular weights in the 800s, this is a bit confusing.
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering my question. Was the re-x that showed up clean in the mass spectrometry test done with the same NPS in question?
 
Charoite said:
syberdelic said:
Charoite said:
That's somewhat of a relief. I'm no chemist so I'm having trouble understanding...

When mixing an acidic vinegar solution with the NPS in question it causes an unknown "salt?" to appear in the vinegar, however when the NPS that has not been in contact with an acid is evaporated it leaves no residue.

It was mentioned in a previous comment that the re-x left no trace of contamination.

Is it logical to presume that the unknown contaminant remains in the NPS after freeze precipitation or does it somehow combine with the DMT suspended in the NPS causing a contaminated product when it crashes out?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding. And yes, the unknowns seem to stay in solution for re-x and gets poured off.

The evap test is where things get weird. The unknowns easily salt out with weak acid, but otherwise evaporate off along with the naphtha. If they were lighter chemicals, this would make sense, but with molecular weights in the 800s, this is a bit confusing.
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering my question. Was the re-x that showed up clean in the mass spectrometry test done with the same NPS in question?
Click to expand...

Yes
 
This is an interesting development..
I've always had good luck with the klean strip VM&P stuff. I have a batch now that I actually just used and the globes are almost done. I hadn't seen this yet. I tested the naphtha, evaporated clean like people are saying but just now I did the vinegar test and the vinegar is still slightly cloudy about 10 minutes later it seems almost like its diminishing tho - that could be wishful thinking :roll: . I'm gonna let the test jar sit overnight to see what happens.|
So let me get the consensus so far:
There's a new potentially dhazardous additive in some formerly clean brands, which has led to some indications of impurities in non recrystallized Spice? Or did some experience side effects even with a naphtha Re-X?
The consesnsus is also that Re-X's in heptane?? or hexane?? (don't have experience with them yet so I forgot. It was both, right?

So, say, if someone had a white christmas in a lake of this potentially impure naphtha, it should definitely be Re-X'd? To do that with this naphtha, or rather, to clean it first, would I just mix it ith the vinegar a few times and decant after to clear some of the impurity, and then follow Re-X instructions, correct?

Thank you guys for this fascinating stuff, I love the collagorative research aspect of the nexus. DIY collective research!
 
So, say, if someone had a white christmas in a lake of this potentially impure naphtha, it should definitely be Re-X'd? To do that with this naphtha, or rather, to clean it first, would I just mix it ith the vinegar a few times and decant after to clear some of the impurity, and then follow Re-X instructions, correct?
Click to expand...
What you're describing is a mini A/B.

A recrystallisation involves dissolving the material in a suitable warm solvent and allowing it to cool slowly. Crystals are thereby separated from small amounts of impurities which stay dissolved in the solvent. This method exploits the same temperature/solubility gradient effect as freeze precipitation.
 
My advice when using this solvent would be to clean with vinegar until the wash is clear, then at the end of the process, always run the finished product through at least one re-x. This should at the very least minimize the amount of the unknown chemical in the finished product if not eliminate it.

The sample that I had run through a mass spectrometer was re-x'ed twice, but the vinegar wash was never done. The MS showed a huge spike at 188 and a couple shadows a little higher which I assume were small amounts of N-oxide and possibly a salt of carbonic acid which would both be due to exposure to air. There was nothing else noticeable from zero to 1000 other than the carriers.

I would say that this solvent is perfectly safe to work with as long as proper precautions are taken to avoid bringing the unknown chemicals into the final product.

And in case anyone is curious, I sampled 250mL of naphtha and recovered about 50mg of acetate salts. A second wash was clear.
 
AluminumFoilRobots said:
Ok, good advice.

The naphtha/vinegar mix I did last night has now completely separated and the cloudy layer has cleared up considerably. What could that mean?
Click to expand...

Evaporate the vinegar. If it doesn't leave residue, you're good.
 
You guy's don't even know if syberdelic tested the same naphtha that I did. I dried my dmt under a fan for 3 days so it doesn't just evaporate off. Syberdelic it sounds like you're saying that you did a re-x with the same dirty naphtha and it turned out fine which is ridiculous. I properly recrystallized the bad batch of dmt and it still burned my lips and throat. That picture that I posted was after a acid wash and you're telling them just 2 clean it. You either tested a different batch of naphtha or you're not telling the truth.

I think you guys need to understand that people on this thing like 2 play scientist. Even if they claim to be one that doesn't mean that they actually are. You can use other things like Hexane, heptane, octane, nonane, decane also work, they're all NPS. If you think you have dirty naphtha then DON'T USE IT!!!!!!!!
 
Running Bear said:
You guy's don't even know if syberdelic tested the same naphtha that I did. I dried my dmt under a fan for 3 days so it doesn't just evaporate off. Syberdelic it sounds like you're saying that you did a re-x with the same dirty naphtha and it turned out fine which is ridiculous. I properly recrystallized the bad batch of dmt and it still burned my lips and throat. That picture that I posted was after a acid wash and you're telling them just 2 clean it. You either tested a different batch of naphtha or you're not telling the truth.

I think you guys need to understand that people on this thing like 2 play scientist. Even if they claim to be one that doesn't mean that they actually are. You can use other things like Hexane, heptane, octane, nonane, decane also work, they're all NPS. If you think you have dirty naphtha then DON'T USE IT!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


This is true. Sometimes the obvious eludes me. It very well could be completely different chemicals in our batches of naphtha. I would suggest that maybe you could get a sample analyzed to see if the same mass numbers pop up.

But I will say that what I extracted with 2x re-x came out clean. MS is clean and there is no odd flavor or burn. Whatever chemical it is in my naphtha, stays in solution and is poured off with the naphtha. But to be clear, there is no evaporation involved in my re-x process other than drying the crystals after the pour, thus no possible increase in the ratio of unknown chemical to solvent.
 
syberdelic said:
Running Bear said:
You guy's don't even know if syberdelic tested the same naphtha that I did. I dried my dmt under a fan for 3 days so it doesn't just evaporate off. Syberdelic it sounds like you're saying that you did a re-x with the same dirty naphtha and it turned out fine which is ridiculous. I properly recrystallized the bad batch of dmt and it still burned my lips and throat. That picture that I posted was after a acid wash and you're telling them just 2 clean it. You either tested a different batch of naphtha or you're not telling the truth.

I think you guys need to understand that people on this thing like 2 play scientist. Even if they claim to be one that doesn't mean that they actually are. You can use other things like Hexane, heptane, octane, nonane, decane also work, they're all NPS. If you think you have dirty naphtha then DON'T USE IT!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


This is true. Sometimes the obvious eludes me. It very well could be completely different chemicals in our batches of naphtha. I would suggest that maybe you could get a sample analyzed to see if the same mass numbers pop up.

But I will say that what I extracted with 2x re-x came out clean. MS is clean and there is no odd flavor or burn. Whatever chemical it is in my naphtha, stays in solution and is poured off with the naphtha. But to be clear, there is no evaporation involved in my re-x process other than drying the crystals after the pour, thus no possible increase in the ratio of unknown chemical to solvent.
Click to expand...
Running Bear, what process exactly do you mean by re-X? I ask because some people think a re-X involves evaporating off the bulk of the solvent, which obviously won't do much to reduce impurity levels.

[A proper re-X is basically redissolving freebase in a minimum of warm NPS and allowing it to slowly cool and crystallise in the exact same manner as a normal freeze precip.]
 
I did both an evap test and a vinegar test on a recently purchased can of klean strip VM&P naptha from Ace hardware, and both tests came out just fine. :thumb_up:
 
Atari said:
I did both an evap test and a vinegar test on a recently purchased can of klean strip VM&P naptha from Ace hardware, and both tests came out just fine. :thumb_up:
Click to expand...

Atari, what is the date of manufacturer of that can? It should be printed on the bottom.
 
nonononono said:
Atari said:
I did both an evap test and a vinegar test on a recently purchased can of klean strip VM&P naptha from Ace hardware, and both tests came out just fine. :thumb_up:
Click to expand...

Atari, what is the date of manufacturer of that can? It should be printed on the bottom.
Click to expand...

It says "092315B", so looks like it's a couple years old.
 
Back
Top Bottom