Cyb's Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek - questions

[boom123]

Hi,

I have some simple questions regarding this tek.

1. There's no enough space in my freezer for more than one baking pans. Is it possible that I reuse the same pan for the 4-5 pulls? I mean put/take out of the freezer the pan for each pull...

2. Is it possible to use normal IKEA plates for the same purpose?

3. What would be the optimum temperature of the bath for making the heated pulls? 40-50 degrees celsius?

thanks in advance.

 

[cyb]

1. 2. 3. ...

1. Yes Or you can put all your pulls in one dish together...evap half then freeze.
2. Yes as long as you can scrape it ok.
3. appx 35-40*C is optimal...Warm but not Hot.

 

[boom123]

1. 2. 3. ...

1. Yes Or you can put all your pulls in one dish together...evap half then freeze.
2. Yes as long as you can scrape it ok.
3. appx 35-40*C is optimal...Warm but not Hot.

1. I don't understand the second part of your answer? Is it possible to elaborate a bit more?
The reason that I'm asking is because in the guide says "Place the ‘Pulls’ in the freezer for 12 to 18 hours. (overnight). Do not disturb them. (It’s tempting to look but try not to)"
...and I will disturb it if I keep adding each time the pull... I hope I made myself clear.

3. 35-40*C should be the temp of the mixture not of the water? right?

thanks a lot for you help. amazing guide.

 

[WhereEaglesDare]

Excellent, this answered a couple of the questions I had about water temps and using one large roasting dish and putting it in and taking it out between pulls.

 

[cyb]

1. I don't understand the second part of your answer? Is it possible to elaborate a bit more?
The reason that I'm asking is because in the guide says "Place the ‘Pulls’ in the freezer for 12 to 18 hours. (overnight). Do not disturb them. (It’s tempting to look but try not to)"
...and I will disturb it if I keep adding each time the pull... I hope I made myself clear.

3.35-40*C should be the temp of the mixture not of the water? right?

I assume you just mean a plate that you got from Ikea...
Any flat bottomed, dish shaped dish will do...as long as it can take being frozen (and then thawed out again) without the temp shock breaking it.(why we use Glass/Pyrex)
Also it needs to be smooth so the scraping process won't tear it up.

If you only have one...then do 1 pull, place it in the dish...leave it on the side (at room temp, covered) and keep adding your pulls to it as you do them. You will end up with a dish with all your naphtha in it at the end.

It is generally accepted that a large amount of naphtha with a small amount of actives in it will be too dilute to precipitate properly...so put a cold fan over it till it is reduced by half (to super saturate it)...then put it in the freezer.

The reason that the tek calls for separate dishes for each pull is that you have your pulls precipitating while you wait for the next pulling cycle (speeding up the process) and then you can pour out the naphtha at the end of the freeze and reuse it...
If you do it all in one dish, you will lose some in the evap. (this can be overcome by just doing small 25-30ml pulls)
Entirely depends whether you want to waste your naphtha or not.
If you are in UK...Tescos has glass roasting dishes for a quid.

The temp is for the entire mix...it is not critical to be totally accurate...but over heating it (as many have done) gives undesirable results.

 

[boom123]

1. I don't understand the second part of your answer? Is it possible to elaborate a bit more?
The reason that I'm asking is because in the guide says "Place the ‘Pulls’ in the freezer for 12 to 18 hours. (overnight). Do not disturb them. (It’s tempting to look but try not to)"
...and I will disturb it if I keep adding each time the pull... I hope I made myself clear.

3.35-40*C should be the temp of the mixture not of the water? right?

I assume you just mean a plate that you got from Ikea...
Any flat bottomed, dish shaped dish will do...as long as it can take being frozen (and then thawed out again) without the temp shock breaking it.(why we use Glass/Pyrex)
Also it needs to be smooth so the scraping process won't tear it up.

If you only have one...then do 1 pull, place it in the dish...leave it on the side (at room temp, covered) and keep adding your pulls to it as you do them. You will end up with a dish with all your naphtha in it at the end.

It is generally accepted that a large amount of naphtha with a small amount of actives in it will be too dilute to precipitate properly...so put a cold fan over it till it is reduced by half (to super saturate it)...then put it in the freezer.

The reason that the tek calls for separate dishes for each pull is that you have your pulls precipitating while you wait for the next pulling cycle (speeding up the process) and then you can pour out the naphtha at the end of the freeze and reuse it...
If you do it all in one dish, you will lose some in the evap. (this can be overcome by just doing small 25-30ml pulls)
Entirely depends whether you want to waste your naphtha or not.
If you are in UK...Tescos has glass roasting dishes for a quid.

The temp is for the entire mix...it is not critical to be totally accurate...but over heating it (as many have done) gives undesirable results.

a big thank you for your detailed answered.

 

[Rolande]

1. I don't understand the second part of your answer? Is it possible to elaborate a bit more?
The reason that I'm asking is because in the guide says "Place the ‘Pulls’ in the freezer for 12 to 18 hours. (overnight). Do not disturb them. (It’s tempting to look but try not to)"
...and I will disturb it if I keep adding each time the pull... I hope I made myself clear.

3.35-40*C should be the temp of the mixture not of the water? right?

I assume you just mean a plate that you got from Ikea...
Any flat bottomed, dish shaped dish will do...as long as it can take being frozen (and then thawed out again) without the temp shock breaking it.(why we use Glass/Pyrex)
Also it needs to be smooth so the scraping process won't tear it up.

If you only have one...then do 1 pull, place it in the dish...leave it on the side (at room temp, covered) and keep adding your pulls to it as you do them. You will end up with a dish with all your naphtha in it at the end.

It is generally accepted that a large amount of naphtha with a small amount of actives in it will be too dilute to precipitate properly...so put a cold fan over it till it is reduced by half (to super saturate it)...then put it in the freezer.

The reason that the tek calls for separate dishes for each pull is that you have your pulls precipitating while you wait for the next pulling cycle (speeding up the process) and then you can pour out the naphtha at the end of the freeze and reuse it...
If you do it all in one dish, you will lose some in the evap. (this can be overcome by just doing small 25-30ml pulls)
Entirely depends whether you want to waste your naphtha or not.
If you are in UK...Tescos has glass roasting dishes for a quid.

The temp is for the entire mix...it is not critical to be totally accurate...but over heating it (as many have done) gives undesirable results.

What temp is overheating? Is having the mix in a heat bath at 70 degrees too much? Does too much head lead to dirtier pulls? Perhaps the near boiling temp of water baths is the reason for the constant gooey and gross pulls.

Thanks

 

[boom123]

hey all. Thanks for your help again. I finally made the extraction but unfortunately i didn't manage with my pippete to make the pulling...the naptha was keep dropping out. I manage to take out just 20ml out and followed the procedure to the end and indeed i saw the product looks to be nice.

One more question, Im getting myself a syringe to finish what i started, so i guess its good to warm the mix for about one hour before i start again with the pulling?

 

[DreaMTripper]

Yeah warming the mix is a good idea but not too hot you just want it warm not hot naptha boils and evaporates at a fairly low temperature in comparison to water so you dont want to lose some of the nps before youve separated otherwise it wont hold as much. It will also pull small base particles into suspension and other unwanted oils that you would have to clean up later.
Has anyone had success pulling an already supersaturated volume of nps?

 

[Earthwalker]

I'd like to no if anyone has done this TEK with ACRB and what was the yield % and if it produced white fluff crystals or goo ???

 

[steppa]

Has anyone had success pulling an already supersaturated volume of nps?

If this means, that the naphta was milky when poured in the percip dish, then yes. I even got TWO milky pulls after another from a 100g Mimosa extraction with about 100ml naphta each pull.

I modified cybs tek a bit in regard of the ammount of lye which I use. I use about one third more than recommended. I think that really helped a faster and better separation. Another difference, which I think was essential for the two milky pulls was that I, in difference to my prior extractions neither rolled nor stirred the NPS/Mimosa mix, but that I swirled it vigorously for one till two minutes four times. With swirling I mean to move the vessel in a way that the fluid moves circular in it and forms a vortex, without having to fear emulsions which could result (at least I guess so) from heavy stirring.

This lets me think that swirling is much better than rolling and/or stirring.

 

[Rolande]

Has anyone had success pulling an already supersaturated volume of nps?

If this means, that the naphta was milky when poured in the percip dish, then yes. I even got TWO milky pulls after another from a 100g Mimosa extraction with about 100ml naphta each pull.

I modified cybs tek a bit in regard of the ammount of lye which I use. I use about one third more than recommended. I think that really helped a faster and better separation. Another difference, which I think was essential for the two milky pulls was that I, in difference to my prior extractions neither rolled nor stirred the NPS/Mimosa mix, but that I swirled it vigorously for one till two minutes four times. With swirling I mean to move the vessel in a way that the fluid moves circular in it and forms a vortex, without having to fear emulsions which could result (at least I guess so) from heavy stirring.

This lets me think that swirling is much better than rolling and/or stirring.

May I ask for more details?

Do you increase just the amount of lye by 1/3rd or both the lye and water?

Aswell, do you think that swirling mixes the solvent well throughout the mix?

 

[steppa]

May I ask for more details?

Of course.

Do you increase just the amount of lye by 1/3rd or both the lye and water?

From my understanding, the ammount of destilled water doesn't really matter, as long as it isn't to less. From what I've learned, the ammount of lye, which should be used, results from the ammount of bark which is used.

I always top with so much destilled water in the end, that I can comfortably siphon off the naphta. I don't think that adding destilled water would change the PH.

Could another member please tell me, if what I learned is correct?

Aswell, do you think that swirling mixes the solvent well throughout the mix?

Yes, but only if you do it excessive tough. At least this is, what those milky pulls tell me. But one has to have a vessel which supports this kind of mixing. I use a bottle/vase which has the shape of an erlmeyer flask. Should use an erlmeyer flask.

I've attached photos of said pulls when they were in, what I call the "buffer glas". I never siphon the naphta directly to the percip dish, but in a narrow glas. So I don't have to be so carefull when I siphon it off. Then I let it sit in there for a few minutes and siphon it off again. This time into the precip vessel.

 

[cyb]

From my understanding, the amount of distilled water doesn't really matter, as long as it isn't to less. From what I've learned, the amount of lye, which should be used, results from the amount of bark which is used.

I always top with so much distilled water in the end, that I can comfortably siphon off the naphtha. I don't think that adding distilled water would change the PH.

Could another member please tell me, if what I learned is correct?

A little more lye cannot hurt and as you say can help calm the mix down and make separation speedier.

The lye is adjusting the pH of the solution (not the amount of bark)...so if you use a litre of water...you need to add enough lye to adjust the pH value of that amount of water.
Same if you use 2 litres or more...the amount of lye will increase.
(remember of course that the mix should already be of a low pH value because of the vinegar used)

pH scale works like this: (2-4 acidic vinegar)>>>>>(7 neutral water)>>>>>(12 alkaline lye)

However you choose to mix the naphtha and the base mix...You must get the naphtha to 'touch' every part of the base mix.
The transfer of freebase to the solvent happens 'On Contact'...it doesn't drift into it like a magnet.
So swirl, roll, shake (lightly), end over end...however you do it, just imagine the slippery naphtha trying to touch every part of the black mix.

I'd like to no if anyone has done this TEK with ACRB and what was the yield % and if it produced white fluff crystals or goo ???

Many people have done this with ACRB and a range of % have been reported from 0.5% upto 2.5%
Goo and Crystals can be obtained...depends on many variables.

 

[steppa]

The lye is adjusting the pH of the solution (not the amount of bark)...so if you use a litre of water...you need to add enough lye to adjust the pH value of that amount of water.
Same if you use 2 litres or more...the amount of lye will increase.

Ok, thanks for clearing this up. Yeah...I somehow assumed that destilled water won't change the PH.
But after reading a bit I saw that destilled water has a PH of 5. So I guess it would bring up the PH if it was lower than PH 5 before.

 

[tryptus]

I've attached photos of said pulls when they were in, what I call the "buffer glas". I never siphon the naphta directly to the percip dish, but in a narrow glas. So I don't have to be so carefull when I siphon it off. Then I let it sit in there for a few minutes and siphon it off again. This time into the precip vessel.

I think this is a good idea for more easily separating the naphtha layer, but shouldn't you pull the naphtha while it is still somewhat hot (DMT base dissolves in hot naphtha more than room temp. or cold naphtha)? I generally pull as much as naphtha as carefully as possible into the precip. dish, then I pull the remaining naphtha (with a little bit of mimosa mud) into a shot glass, let separate, and pull that naphtha layer into the precip. dish. The second shot glass naphtha is cooler, so it probably doesn't have as much product, but better than having black DMT final product.

Is it very important to pull with hot/warm naphtha as opposed to room temp. naphtha?

 

[cyb]

Is it very important to pull with hot/warm naphtha as opposed to room temp. naphtha?

The warmer the solvent...the more product it will hold.

 

[Earthwalker]

I'd like to no if anyone has done this TEK with ACRB and what was the yield % and if it produced white fluff crystals or goo ???

Many people have done this with ACRB and a range of % have been reported from 0.5% upto 2.5%
Goo and Crystals can be obtained...depends on many variables.

Cyb ,,,,, The variables you speak of does this include ph levels at the start of the TEK as in the TEK it doesn't mention ph at all , or if I follow the TEK to the T should I get a good result and by result being some crystals as this did seem to me being a beginner to be the most strait forward TEK out there !!!!! :thumb_up:

 

[User1911]

I use this tek with ACRB, it usually produces a mix of xtals and goo, the warm pulling def increases yeild. I find keeping the base mix in a warm water bath on the stove the entire time drastically increases yeild. (Of course turning off the flame and only turning it on when needed). And completeing all your pulls in the same session. I find that if i let the base mix sit too long before pulls, say a few days, it pulls more goo then xtals. I have gotten great results with this tek. off 150 grams acrb i yielded 2+ grams of xtals and goo. Which i prefer now and make changa with, brings you to a dreamy headspace realm, when you find that sweet spot.

I was thinking, could one use epson salts instead of say table salt for this tek how would that work out?

 

[cyb]

Cyb ,,,,, The variables you speak of does this include ph levels at the start of the TEK as in the TEK it doesn't mention ph at all , or if I follow the TEK to the T should I get a good result and by result being some crystals as this did seem to me being a beginner to be the most strait forward TEK out there !!!!! :thumb_up:

The pH throughout the tek does not affect the aesthetic outcome of the product. It only serves to convert the 'salts' (ie. dmt acetate) into freebase.

Variables are integral to the bark being used.
MHRB reliably produces crystals as an end product.
ACRB is much more fickle as it contains other alkaloids and oils that 'can' interfere with the formation of the crystal matrix. Hence Goo sometimes.

Since ACRB use is still in it's infancy and is not an exact science...some people get clean crystals...some get Goo. It really depends on your batch of bark.

Selective solvents (Heptane, Hexane etc) may help, as can varying the temperature of the mix but is by no means a sure thing.

Run the tek on a small batch and see what you get.
It's all the good stuff in the end.