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Datura inoxia: an amazing sleep aid and dream enhancer

Migrated topic.
I found some info on metel
D. metel is used in Chinese medicine as an antispasmodic crude drug and the dry flowers are used as an anaesthetic. D. metel var. muricata (obtained from Nagoya, Japan) was double recessive with respect to the genes concerning colour and form of the corolla in experiments involving 4 varieties: var. metel (white, simple corolla), var. rubra (purple, simple), var. fastuosa (purple, double or triple) and var. muricata (white, double). It was suggested that the results supported the proposal that these variants should be considered as varieties or forms of a single species, D. metel. Scopolamine was always dominant over hyoscyamine in seeds, flowers and leaves of the 4 varieties. Scopolamine content (dry weight basis) of seeds, flowers and leaves ranged from 0.294 (var. rubra) to 0.631% (var. fastuosa), 0.19 (var. metel) to 0.698% (var. rubra), and 0.042 (var. rubra) to 0.255% (var. metel), respectively. It was concluded that all 4 varieties can be utilized as sources of scopolamine.
 
69ron said:
With D. inoxia we know exactly what the maximum amout of scopolamine is per seed.

The reason I’m talking about seeds and not any other part of the plant is because the seeds are the most consistent in alkaloid content. D. inoxia is the main source of scopolamine and has been studied extensively, so we know what a safe dose of it is.

With those other daturas how do you know how much you’re taking? I wouldn’t bother with them unless I knew the maximum alkaloid content of them. Leaves vary in potency way too much to mess around with.

The only seeds that I know that are safe and dependable in the right dosage amounts are D. inoxia and D. stramonium. With 10 seeds a day of either of these, you’re not going to ever build up anywhere near a dangerous dosage level. It’s not possible. The maximum safe recommended dose for both is 20 seeds a day. 1-3 is the recommended dose. But with these other daturas who knows?

Daturas are not something to mess around with if you don’t know the exact maximum doses to use.

If you’re going to use Datura metel, you’d better be sure of the exactly dosage you’re using. You’d better do some research and find out how much alkaloids the seeds can contain per mg. You don’t want to take more than 800 micrograms of scopolamine or hyoscyamine. A good dose is 50-400 micrograms. 1500 micrograms is the maximum safe dose.

How many Datura metal seeds contain 400 micrograms? If you don’t know, you should NOT take them.

This thread is about using Datua inoxia safely, not irresponsibly. If you’re going to substitute Datua inoxia with Datura metal seeds, then please post the alkaloid content of them, so that others can know what a safe dose is. As it is right now, no one talking about these other Datura has offered any such information. Without knowing the alkaloid content of these other datura it is very risky to use them.

Also using any part of a leaf, stem, flower, etc., without weighing it is dangerous. Unlike the seeds, these plant parts vary wildly in alkaloid contents, and in density and weight per piece. Using leaves, stems, flowers, etc., it’s very hard to get an accurate and consistent dosage. You could take a small piece one day and be fine, then the next day take the same amount and be in the hospital. It’s just not safe. With the seeds, the alkaloid content is much more stable, and the size and density of the seeds varies only a tiny bit, so its much easier to get a consistent dosage from the seeds. I would not use any other part of the plant.

I’ve done my research. I’m not basing this on personal opinion. The leaves of most daturas vary in alkaloid content as well as alkaloid mix. Meaning they could sometimes contain mostly hyoscyamine, and at other times contain mostly scopolamine, and at other times contain mostly atropine. The concentration of each alkaloid in the leaves varies by season, age, etc. There is no way to get a consistent dose from the leaves. It’s just not possible. Only the seeds contain a somewhat consistent mix and concentration of alkaloids. That is why I only talk about using seeds and no other part of the plant.
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aw, heavy smack down on the first post. don't be so overly upset with the newbie. your cautions regarding weight are noted, and it was never said this other guy just did whatever he wanted to because he felt like it (re: personal opinion) without any research whatsoever.

smoking seeds produces a headache.

Kannamate said:
I found some info on metel
D. metel is used in Chinese medicine as an antispasmodic crude drug and the dry flowers are used as an anaesthetic. D. metel var. muricata (obtained from Nagoya, Japan) was double recessive with respect to the genes concerning colour and form of the corolla in experiments involving 4 varieties: var. metel (white, simple corolla), var. rubra (purple, simple), var. fastuosa (purple, double or triple) and var. muricata (white, double). It was suggested that the results supported the proposal that these variants should be considered as varieties or forms of a single species, D. metel. Scopolamine was always dominant over hyoscyamine in seeds, flowers and leaves of the 4 varieties. Scopolamine content (dry weight basis) of seeds, flowers and leaves ranged from 0.294 (var. rubra) to 0.631% (var. fastuosa), 0.19 (var. metel) to 0.698% (var. rubra), and 0.042 (var. rubra) to 0.255% (var. metel), respectively. It was concluded that all 4 varieties can be utilized as sources of scopolamine.
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awesome - and productive.

can anyone get a weight range on the seeds?
 
Z, I'm just trying to keep this thread from getting too far out there.

Datura is very potent and needs to be used wisely. Haphazard use of it kills people.

When the dosage information is available, and the maximum concentrations of alkaloids are known for a given part of a Datura plant, then and only then can it be used safely.

All too often people treat Datura casually, don’t weigh out their doses, don’t know how potent their material is, etc., and end up overdosing.

Datura kills people all the time. It’s been killing people for thousands of years. But it only kills stupid people. If you know the proper dose, you can use it safely and have nothing at all to worry about.

The information I provided on Datura inoxia seeds in this thread is well known information. The seeds have a known alkaloid content, and potency is fairly consistent. If taking 10 seeds a day, one is taking a completely safe dose. There is no question about it.

I’m trying hard to prevent this thread from becoming a recipe for accidental death. If people read this thread and follow the 10 seed a day rule for Datura inoxia, they are ok, but if they start experimenting with other unknown species of Datura of unknown potency, then that’s a recipe for disaster.

Far too many people have died from overdosing on Datura. This is a serious issue. We can’t have readers seeing this thread and thinking, “oh cool…I’ll get a few leaves from my neighbor’s Datura plant and make some tea with it to get high” without knowing the dangers of it.

If you take 10 seeds of Datura inoxia, you’ll be fine. That’s at most about 400 micrograms of scopolamine. A very safe dose. If you take 40 seeds, you’re overdosing. 40 seeds could contain about 1600 micrograms. 1500 micrograms is the maxim safe dose for scopolamine. Anything beyond that could be fatal.

There’s a fine line between a safe dose and a lethal dose. I get worried when I see people talking about using leaves without weighing them and especially without knowing exactly how much alkaloids the leaves could contain.

If I sound harsh, I’m sorry. I don’t mean to. I’m just trying to keep this thread full of information to help people use scopolamine safely. Keep in mind that Datura kills stupid people all the time. The last thing I want is some idiot reading this thread, then ingesting 500 Datura inoxia seeds thinking its safe and then dying.
 
Right keep low doses no more than 10 seeds of the 2 talked about here. Personally I don't think anybody will have anything bad happen with 1 datura seed of any species whether it's metel,ceratocaula,wrightii etc. The talked about species here do vary slightly by variety just like metel talked about before,(ex metel var. rubra,var. fastuosa etc. ) stramonium has about 6 varieties maybe more var. Inermis having spineless pods.
 
you're right, it was careless. forgot that just anyone can browse through here. will censor for safety and stay scientific.
 
I've been usuing Inoxia seeds before bed recently. usually around 4-6 seeds. I've not found it to enhance my dreams, although it does aid a good nights sleep. instead of lying in bed with your mind thinking about mundane life/work it seems to kind of relax your mind so it doesn't go off thinking all different things and you can get to sleep - without any stupefying effects - you still feel normal.

I have found though that sometimes i feel a bit groggy the next day. and also sometimes it makes my throat get a bit 'irritated' much like a sore/dry throat, but it does pass after a few minutes.

Also sometimes I get a slight wave a fear as if 'somethings about to happen!' but that passes as soon as it comes.
 
breakMYhead said:
sometimes I get a slight wave a fear as if 'somethings about to happen!' but that passes as soon as it comes.
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Interesting. SWIM felt that same thing once when taking 3 Datura stramonium seeds with 75 mg of mescaline. After about 30 minutes into it, there was a slight feeling of fear just like you described with a sense that things were going to get really weird, but it passed after a few minutes.
 
69ron said:
... there was a slight feeling of fear just like you described with a sense that things were going to get really weird, but it passed after a few minutes.
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exactly. i usually think "oh-oh - maybe these alkaloids have built up in my system and now im gonna go a bit nuts..." but it's fine. strange.
 
Is that fleeting fear just from the knowledge that too much of the alkaloids can make you bonkers? Is it just in the mind? Or is that fleeting fear actually part of the experience of scopolamine and hyoscyamine?
 
69ron said:
Is that fleeting fear just from the knowledge that too much of the alkaloids can make you bonkers? Is it just in the mind? Or is that fleeting fear actually part of the experience of scopolamine and hyoscyamine?
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it's part of the experience - a fleeting fear, increase in body temperature - and the reason my mind first creates is that it's because of the scopolamine and hyoscyamine. then i rationalise that i'm sticking to safe doses and everything will be okay. the feeling does pass...

i don't think it ever lasts longer than 30 seconds. but i definately think it's an affect from the seeds themselves. it just comes on suddenly, and im not even thinking about the fact that i took them.
 
The way you describe it is exactly how SWIM experiences it. It must be an effect of the alkaloids. It’s hard to imagine 3 separate people having a similar effect without ever even talking about it beforehand unless the effect is part of the experience.
 
Does anybody have any theories on how this stuff enhances dreams?
It's supposed to be just anti-cholinergic, so you would expect it to make you forget your dreams easyer, like with the extended use of cannabis.
But strange enough it seems as if i had a better recollection of the dreams i had, whenever i used this stuff as a sleep-aid.
 
SWIM can testify for D. Inoxia's Dream Enhancing effects.

He has the rare habbit of chewing 3 D.Inoxia seeds just before bedtime and has experienced it prolongs and deepens his dreams. Making them more coherent, saturated and very well remembered. SWIM hasn't noticed it's abilitiy to bring one asleep easier yet.

SWIM wonders if D.Inoxia's Oneirogenic effects could be strengthened by adding other oneirogenic herbs.
Like D. Inoxia with:
-sublingual salvia to it.
-a mini dose of ayahuasca.
-a mimi dose of Peyote or San Pedro Tea to it.
-Calea Zacatechichi
-Silene Capensis(African DreamRoot)
-a mimi dose of LSD (less than half a blotter)

This asks for experimentation.
 
polytrip said:
Does anybody have any theories on how this stuff enhances dreams?
It's supposed to be just anti-cholinergic, so you would expect it to make you forget your dreams easyer, like with the extended use of cannabis.
But strange enough it seems as if i had a better recollection of the dreams i had, whenever i used this stuff as a sleep-aid.
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After the anti-cholinergic effects wear off I think there is a rebound effect..thats what I have read on lucid dream forums anyway.
 
My friend tried Datura for the first time last night. Not knowing what to expect he ate just one Inoxia seed. About 3 or 4 minutes in he had an overwhelming adrenaline rush followed by a short 15 second feeling of fear. He was fine after that and felt quite nice. He woke up a few times throughout the night with the pins and needle "dead arm" feeling. Not sure if it was related. He did remember his dreams very thoroughly.

What I find odd is the adrenaline followed by fear. He didn't read this thread until today so it was not power of suggestion. He is going to stick with 1 a few more times before he bumps it up. He has an irrational fear that his seeds are stronger than the norm.

EDIT: I should note he took 3mg of Melatonin 30 minutes prior.
 
ThirdEyeVision, SWIM got that fear feeling before a few times, but now he never does. I think it’s just your mind playing tricks on you because you know the seeds are dangerous.
 
I've done little sperimentation with d. stramonium too. Never gone up to 8 seeds, although how the content vary from seed to seed is something annoying. I've taken 3 seeds one, and had strong vivid dream, and with 7, 2 days ago, had nothing. Maybe the compound is degradeting, do you know how fast do the seeds lose their actity?
My plants have just made out other fruits, by the way, so in this days I'll try out some freshes =)

I also use in combo with melatonin, but didn't achieve nice results. I just have to practice more, I guess =)
 
If you look at this composition for a sublingual pill for children, there are two in it hyoscyamus niger and datura stramonium (they don' say datura for its bad reputation I guess), it is sold as a sleep aid and supposed to fight anxiety prior going to bed.

Chamomilla vulgaris 9 CH - 1,5g
Gelsemium 9 CH - 1,5g
Hyoscyamus niger 9 CH - 1,5g
Kalium bromatum 9 CH - 1,5g
Passiflora incarnata 3 DH - 1,5g
Stramonium 9 CH - 1,5g
pour 100g

Now this one for adult, to fight stress and as a sleep aid, here you find belladona:

Abrus precatorius 6 CH - 0,5mg
Aconitum napellus 6 CH - 0,5mg
Atropa belladonna 6 CH - 0,5mg
Calendula officinalis 6 CH - 0,5mg
Chelidonium majus 6 CH - 0,5mg
Viburnum opulus 6 CH - 0,5mg
Excipients : saccharose, lactose, stéarate de magnésium.

Another one always from the same famous brand of natural remedies, sleep aid and nervous system balancing:

Stramonium 3 DH,
Hyoscyamus niger 3 DH,
Passiflora incarnata 3 DH,
Ballota foetida 3 DH,
Nux moschata 4 CH,
aa 1,2 mg
Excipients : saccharose, gomme arabique, talc, stéarate de magnésium.
qsp 1 comprimé de 0,20 g

All of their remedies concerning sleep aid, anxiety contain Solanaceae genus. I haven't found them using D.inoxia for some reason, maybe they prefer belladona or hyoscyamus niger for the purpose, I don' tknow the alcaloid composition of the last two

Anyway, seeing this it looks like at low dose it can help fight sleep anxiety.
 
arimane said:
do you know how fast do the seeds lose their actity?
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I don't know. SWIM never has seeds sitting around for more than a few weeks. He doesn't buy herbs or seeds in bulk. He buys what he's going to use within the next few weeks. He doesn’t like having a bunch of herbs sitting around getting old.
 
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