Christian, first, my thread was not about actually feeling like an addict and a loser, in the typical sense. The loser term was used to describe a process of losing self. Self interest was what I asserted was keeping me unhappy. The addiction referred to that self interest.
What I will say doesn't really have anything to do with my thread, but just to discuss this further..... I agree many Westerners live a have luxuries that other parts of the world do not have. That doesn't mean there is nothing for anyone to be concerned about. I think most people pretty much worry about the same things around the world. Dying, pain, procreating, and protecting loved ones. Westerners just worry about losing the luxuries they have. Maybe westerners are more afraid of pain and dying than other places because those things don't touch us as much here. Maybe we're even more sensitive to it here. Although, no matter where you go in the world there is still a lot of pain and death and poverty everywhere.
Westerners don't have anything to be concerned about? Tell that to the millions living in ghettos. There's still plenty of poor people here with much violence and pain in their lives. Plasma tv's are beside the point to people who get beat every day, or whatever serious issues that many people face, despite living in the west. The tv thing is just part of our culture. Is it even luxurious? TV's hypnotize us. Most people watch tv and uses the internet. It's almost a necessity to do what everyone else does, or it's harder to fit in and relate to people.
I did not state otherwise, and I agree. I could use all those things you mentioned as examples of the addictions that many people have. My point was that people get addicted to what they have, even luxurious things. My point was that people are terrified of change. If you have never done a hard days labor in your life and are used to getting up at 11, then suddenly living the life of a farmer, getting up at 5am and going out in the cold to do heavy stuff all day would feel like torture. But to the farmer, it would just be another day. As I said, this is just how the body works. It is a form of weakness, but not weakness in a judgmental way as in, "you're pathetic and weak". The body responds to new types of stress by feeling shitty. A person not accustomed to doing hard work would respond to it by literally feeling sick. In my thread, I drew parallels between this sick feeling and addiction. When the body does not get what it is accustomed to, it feels sick, and when the body feels different types of stress, it feels sick..... at first..... but only at first.
I believe that sick feeling is THE reason why it is hard for people to make progress in life. That is why it is hard for people to start exercising and keep exercising, that's why it's hard for people to stop smoking, that's why it's hard for people to make behavioral changes. When people try to change, they feel sick and don't want to keep trying. It's either a withdrawal symptom from going without something, such as going without accustomed foods, or a revulsion to a new form of stress, like changing the type of work one does, or changing environments, or bahavior. To avoid that horrible sick feeling, people will stick with what is familiar, even if what is familiar is unhealthy, and also gives its own sick feeling. But the known sick feeling is better than an unknown one. Fear of the unknown is what most people fear more than anything. However, people can also adapt. The withdrawal symptoms of going without will go away, and the sick feeling from new forms of stress are also dealt with. But people don't want to go through the initial sickness. So people will continue smoking for 20 friggin years because they're unwilling to go through a single damn week that would be difficult due to withdrawal.
However, in my original post, I wasn't just referring to addictions of luxurious things, physical things, or types of work that people do. I was also referring to addictions of an existential nature. Self interest. This is a heck of a tricky thing because anyone who goes down this path eventually will get to a point where they will feel so sick they will not want to continue down this path. It will seem impossibly difficult. It will feel like if you go any further, you will have no place in this world and then you'll just curl up and die. So I guess what I was saying in my thread was, do not get confused. It's not losing self that is making you feel sick, it's the over self interest in the first place that made you feel sick! The process of losing self is just painful, and with it comes that typical sickness that one feels when getting over an addiction. But it can be done. It's not that withdrawal from cigarettes is terribly unhealthy for you, it's the cigarettes that are unhealthy.
christian said:
What I will say doesn't really have anything to do with my thread, but just to discuss this further..... I agree many Westerners live a have luxuries that other parts of the world do not have. That doesn't mean there is nothing for anyone to be concerned about. I think most people pretty much worry about the same things around the world. Dying, pain, procreating, and protecting loved ones. Westerners just worry about losing the luxuries they have. Maybe westerners are more afraid of pain and dying than other places because those things don't touch us as much here. Maybe we're even more sensitive to it here. Although, no matter where you go in the world there is still a lot of pain and death and poverty everywhere.
Westerners don't have anything to be concerned about? Tell that to the millions living in ghettos. There's still plenty of poor people here with much violence and pain in their lives. Plasma tv's are beside the point to people who get beat every day, or whatever serious issues that many people face, despite living in the west. The tv thing is just part of our culture. Is it even luxurious? TV's hypnotize us. Most people watch tv and uses the internet. It's almost a necessity to do what everyone else does, or it's harder to fit in and relate to people.
I did not state otherwise, and I agree. I could use all those things you mentioned as examples of the addictions that many people have. My point was that people get addicted to what they have, even luxurious things. My point was that people are terrified of change. If you have never done a hard days labor in your life and are used to getting up at 11, then suddenly living the life of a farmer, getting up at 5am and going out in the cold to do heavy stuff all day would feel like torture. But to the farmer, it would just be another day. As I said, this is just how the body works. It is a form of weakness, but not weakness in a judgmental way as in, "you're pathetic and weak". The body responds to new types of stress by feeling shitty. A person not accustomed to doing hard work would respond to it by literally feeling sick. In my thread, I drew parallels between this sick feeling and addiction. When the body does not get what it is accustomed to, it feels sick, and when the body feels different types of stress, it feels sick..... at first..... but only at first.
I believe that sick feeling is THE reason why it is hard for people to make progress in life. That is why it is hard for people to start exercising and keep exercising, that's why it's hard for people to stop smoking, that's why it's hard for people to make behavioral changes. When people try to change, they feel sick and don't want to keep trying. It's either a withdrawal symptom from going without something, such as going without accustomed foods, or a revulsion to a new form of stress, like changing the type of work one does, or changing environments, or bahavior. To avoid that horrible sick feeling, people will stick with what is familiar, even if what is familiar is unhealthy, and also gives its own sick feeling. But the known sick feeling is better than an unknown one. Fear of the unknown is what most people fear more than anything. However, people can also adapt. The withdrawal symptoms of going without will go away, and the sick feeling from new forms of stress are also dealt with. But people don't want to go through the initial sickness. So people will continue smoking for 20 friggin years because they're unwilling to go through a single damn week that would be difficult due to withdrawal.
However, in my original post, I wasn't just referring to addictions of luxurious things, physical things, or types of work that people do. I was also referring to addictions of an existential nature. Self interest. This is a heck of a tricky thing because anyone who goes down this path eventually will get to a point where they will feel so sick they will not want to continue down this path. It will seem impossibly difficult. It will feel like if you go any further, you will have no place in this world and then you'll just curl up and die. So I guess what I was saying in my thread was, do not get confused. It's not losing self that is making you feel sick, it's the over self interest in the first place that made you feel sick! The process of losing self is just painful, and with it comes that typical sickness that one feels when getting over an addiction. But it can be done. It's not that withdrawal from cigarettes is terribly unhealthy for you, it's the cigarettes that are unhealthy.
