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Depression-help needed

Migrated topic.
arctuis said:
5-htp said:
tango said:
5-htp said:
Maybe your life isn´t as empty as you think.

Somebody once said to me: "Don´t just see the bad things in your life, try to see the good ones and focus on them. Focus on what´s good for you".

Most of the time, it worked

It is the very essence of depression to make the sufferer's own, private world appear gloomy and uninhabitable. Sure, there are degrees of suffering, and it's better to be healthy, rich and depressed than sick, poor, and depressed. However, imagery of birds chirping joyfully and blue summer skies is not likely to dissipate a depressed person's inner turmoil.

What´s wrong with finding the good things in one selfes life. In depression it is more likely to see the bad things and spiral on them. I would say that following this advise is common practise in psychotherapie. Often one is not aware that there is still good in ones life which takes away the motivation for anything. But finding good is finding value, I think.


thats a good way to also put it 5htp.i think with the help of pyschedelics could be of great benefit


There's nothing wrong with focusing on the more positive aspects of life. However, with depression, it's not so much that you can't identify the good, but more about not being able to internalize this awareness of all not being lost. Take, for instance, people with a specific phobia who, let's say, have a terrible fear of fluffy white rabbits: someone telling them that fluffy white rabbits are not particularly ferocious is not going to help. Psychotherapy uses more sophisticated methods, but often results are still modest in the case of depression.

What I'm trying to say here is that your advice is, essentially, a more polite version of "just pull yourself out of it". Funny enough, while depressed people don't like to hear it, many agree that, when all is said and done, it's the only way out. Nonetheless, it is very hard to do.

Once you've experienced very extreme moods on the abject depression -blissful happiness continuum and saw how different the outside world can appear (even when nothing has objectively changed), you may even start wondering if people you meet in everyday life share your reality at all and how effective communication is.
 
tango said:
arctuis said:
5-htp said:
tango said:
5-htp said:
Maybe your life isn´t as empty as you think.

Somebody once said to me: "Don´t just see the bad things in your life, try to see the good ones and focus on them. Focus on what´s good for you".

Most of the time, it worked

It is the very essence of depression to make the sufferer's own, private world appear gloomy and uninhabitable. Sure, there are degrees of suffering, and it's better to be healthy, rich and depressed than sick, poor, and depressed. However, imagery of birds chirping joyfully and blue summer skies is not likely to dissipate a depressed person's inner turmoil.

What´s wrong with finding the good things in one selfes life. In depression it is more likely to see the bad things and spiral on them. I would say that following this advise is common practise in psychotherapie. Often one is not aware that there is still good in ones life which takes away the motivation for anything. But finding good is finding value, I think.


thats a good way to also put it 5htp.i think with the help of pyschedelics could be of great benefit


There's nothing wrong with focusing on the more positive aspects of life. However, with depression, it's not so much that you can't identify the good, but more about not being able to internalize this awareness of all not being lost. Take, for instance, people with a specific phobia who, let's say, have a terrible fear of fluffy white rabbits: someone telling them that fluffy white rabbits are not particularly ferocious is not going to help. Psychotherapy uses more sophisticated methods, but often results are still modest in the case of depression.

What I'm trying to say here is that your advice is, essentially, a more polite version of "just pull yourself out of it". Funny enough, while depressed people don't like to hear it, many agree that, when all is said and done, it's the only way out. Nonetheless, it is very hard to do.

Once you've experienced very extreme moods on the abject depression -blissful happiness continuum and saw how different the outside world can appear (even when nothing has objectively changed), you may even start wondering if people you meet in everyday life share your reality at all and how effective communication is.


tango i love that you said that " you may even start wondering if people you meet in everyday life share your reality at all" iv found myself wondering that alot these past couple years its a quite odd question to continually ask ones self.
 
I don't know if this will help at all, but I know 2 people personally who were severely depressed (one has a combo of depression/anxiety) and they are doing very well today.

The first one is M (no, not me): Her depression stemmed from an obvious source. Her mom was a huge party girl when M was very young and M ended up in some very dangerous situations, namely her mother's male friends molesting her. When M became a teenager her mother cleaned up her act, but they never received any sort of counseling together. M was FULL of anger and hostility, which was buried beneath her very kind, benign personality. I was M's manager at work and noticed the hostility toward her mother. M moved in with me for a few months while waiting for her new apt. and I witnessed firsthand just how terrible depression can be; she hardly slept and was always tired, therefore she hardly left her bed on her days off and was always begging me to allow her to nap at work, which I did. She stopped eating and became anorexic. I finally suggested that she cut off all contact with her mom bc being around her seemed to set her off. She did, and it helped her a lot. She eventually quit her job at our work (she hated it, another contributor to her depression). She got a job at a yoga studio as a receptionist as she loves yoga. This job change helped her tremendously. She changed all of the things that contributed to or caused her depression and she's doing very well today.

Person # 2 is P. She seemed very happy and well adjusted, then the depression hit her out of nowhere in her mid 40s. The only thing she really complained about before that was not having a boyfriend, and she is a very beautiful and talented woman, she just hardly ever went out and therefore never met guys, and was too picky about the ones who liked her. She was divorced from a man she adored in the 80s and never quite got over it. Then some people in her family fell ill who lived in AZ. She packed up her house to rent it out, moved to AZ, absolutely hated it and it dawned on her right then how good her life in LA had been. After a few months taking care of sick people in a very conservative city in AZ she realized just how depressing life could be. She helped her family members heal and hightailed it back to LA. In the height of her depression she had been bedridden. Now she occasionally takes an anti anxiety pill if she wakes up and feels it's going to be a rough day, but generally she is great.

I'm no doctor, I don't know the causes of depression. But I've seen people fall into a rut and develop depression. I think we as humans are the only species who have that luxury, every other species is too busy fighting for food, shelter, water and survival to ever fall into a rut.

I struggled with mild depression growing up, I had a hard time as a child bc of my crazy and often neglectful family. I grew out of it in my late 20s when it occurred to me that those things I experienced as a kid didn't even exist anywhere outside my head anymore. That I had so much to be grateful for: good health, all of my limbs, basic civil rights, food, clean water, shelter, a job, a car, the list goes on. When I feel myself starting to feel that way now I change my surroundings. When work pisses me off I say "eff it" and jump on my bike (I am lucky to telecommute). When my husband drives me nuts I say "eff it" and walk to my local for a drinkie with the nutty old bar flies who always make me laugh. As a kid I allowed people to push me around, now I'm very assertive without being aggressive, I do not allow people to push my buttons. We have more power in our minds than most are aware of and can at the very least change our current mood.

The best of luck to you, from one human to another I sincerely hope you get through this. I don't want to sound like the answer is so simple, I just wanted to offer a new perspective and share what I've personally witnessed and experienced. The answers you seek may or may not come in the form a drug, psychedelic or otherwise. <3
 
DSTiamat said:
hello PPL,
in short my problems: I am depressed, pretty badly (the kind of depression without motivation/energy), I tried many meds, most of them didnt work, some worked partially (like Sertraline that I am taking right now), it doesnt let me fall that deep into the abyss, but life still isnt nice.I heard that Aya and DMT can heal many many things related to subconciousness/inner problems, some said that its like psychotherapy, so I would like to know some oppinions, think it would help me? Could it bring some changes to my life?
I tried Shrooms, they made me feel wonderfull the next day and ok for some time after, but Im looking ( if possible) for the long lasting changes.

TY very much and sorry for the wall of text.

DST

I think the Ayahuasca, Pharma route is an option for depression without co-morbid anxiety or psychosis. But as has already been said, not with SSRI's. It's not reasonable ( or permitable) to suggest anyone stop their meds. Ask your Dr. about how he/she views you stopping them.

I don't know off hand the half life of Sertraline, but you'd have a wash out period as well.

Low dose Salvia divinorum has had some success with treatment resistant depression, but the emphasis really is on low dose. Pity it's legality is being put more and more under pressure.

The pharmaceutical companies seem to have hit a wall in the development pipeline for novel and effective a.d's.They have thrashed the SSRI thing to death and most dopamine and opiate boosting avenues are still off limits, probably because they are seen as abusable .

I know I've come full circle back round to plant based a.d's. With Aya analogues and salvia topping the list. Nature really does seem to know best.

Good luck
 
jamie said:
"if you decide to take some make sure to not ingest foods with tyramine and follow the maoi diet."

There is no data to support the need to avoid tyramine with ayahuasca. There is no such thing as a "maoi diet" in the jungle. It is a myth made up by white people. You have to avoid SSRI's and stimulants etc..those are things mostly of our world. Tyramine though is not going to have this sort of interaction with harmine or harmaline that some people fear so much.

Jamie, I'm intrigued with this observation, I know the MAOI's B. caapi and Perganum harmala are RIMAS. But so are drugs like Moclobemide, I used to take it, and I did have some issues after eating aged cheese, fermented foods, red wine. I felt safer avoiding them and indeed was advised to do so by the perscribing physician.

True that there's not an MAOI diet in the Amazon, but there's not much Brie, Saurkraut and Chainti either.

I would still advise caution with certain high tyramine foods.
 
"
I'm no doctor, I don't know the causes of depression. But I've seen people fall into a rut and develop depression. I think we as humans are the only species who have that luxury, every other species is too busy fighting for food, shelter, water and survival to ever fall into a rut."

Really if ever crossed the line between "blues" and depression, than fighting for food, shelter and water seems much better than the "luxury" of depression, when wanting or having no opinion or fear of one owns death seems like a calming thought, like a relief, like an pretty good solution.Only a few will understand what I really mean, the ones that can really help me, but TY for every effort done to help.
DST
 
Really, I did not at all want to sound as if your depression was something to be taken lightly, my apologies if that sounded offensive. Compared to my friend M, who didn't even have the capacity to leave her bed aside from doing a few hours of work a few times weekly to barely eek out a living you seem to be in a better position where you are trying to seek information and get help for yourself. Another friend of mine has just earned a PhD in Psychology, and she'll be the first to say that the whole phenomenon of depression is very poorly understood even today. What's strange to me is that it either seems to be afflicting people in record numbers, but it could be that we just hear more about it due to access to information.

What I left out of my post completely is that my 20 yr. old little brother used to be extremely depressed, and it's onset was directly related to a series of deaths in our family that left him reeling. We all watched his mental decline which led to him abusing some very serious and deadly drugs like heroin. This culminated in his death by accidental overdose on OxyContin mixed with his prescription meds. I don't know if you have always struggled with it or you can directly trace it to an event in your life, but if you did experience something that triggered it then you need to deal with that underlying issue. He didn't, and he died as a result. I don't think any of us even realized just how sensitive he was about his grand parents dying as the rest of us are quite the pragmatic bunch as well as older and more experienced and quite comfortable with the fact that death is a part of life.

Again, I meant no offense and wish you all the best in finding happiness.
 
arcanum wrote:
I know the MAOI's B. caapi and Perganum harmala are RIMAS. But so are drugs like Moclobemide, I used to take it, and I did have some issues after eating aged cheese, fermented foods, red wine. I felt safer avoiding them and indeed was advised to do so by the perscribing physician.

True that there's not an MAOI diet in the Amazon, but there's not much Brie, Saurkraut and Chainti either.

I would still advise caution with certain high tyramine foods.
^..This!
..and i've deliberately eaten chocolate, brie, sugar and lentils, and drank wine and beer, on ayahuasca to see what would happen..ranged from just 'not fun' to 'put me out of my misery please!' Hell! ..and not just me, but sure, maybe not everyone..


i..agree with the OP that discovering inner worlds and new vision is a major key in climbing out of depression..

best of luck..sincerely
 
12 years later and a desperate try to recover my long, long forgotten password (thus a new account), I come upon this thread, which I completely forgot I created.
Everything is fine now and psychedelics had a BIG role in everything, but more to this later.
First I want to thank from all my heart the people which took the time to help me out here, can't imagine how much I appreciate it, there is hope in this world!
I just could not see this from that gloomy perspective, could not even appreciate the help that I got , it even frustrated me that (I wrongly thought) did not apply to me.
Well..... IT DID! Just that thing don't work out (in time) like we expect them to. Nature has its own ways.
I can see now that all bad was caused from a materialistic view of the world, this poison which is sucking out all meaning out of people life's and is not even grounded in truth, science, nothing, it is just a LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.
Psychedelics thought me otherwise, we know nothing, there is truth and beauty in this world, heck, more, this world is a pure miracle, it is just our ignorance which makes it seem otherwise.
After Shrooms, DMT, Aya, my search ended in 5 MEO-DMT, the God molecule. I met and was one with the cause of all there is, the source, the One, God, however you call it because no words can do it justice. No room for materialism and other bullshit, a self-evident truth which I could later also find expressed by Idealist philosophers because my rational mind needed that.
I believe now that psychedelics are here for a reason and It cannot be otherwise, it would be an impossible coincidence. How can mushrooms, plant extracts and toad secretions cause such changes in our consciousness and bring such understanding?
I hope some of you are still around and can read this and if you know someone with depression, help them to get into psychedelics, it will surely change their life, like they did change mine, they are a miracle.

Thank you all and light to the world!
DST
 
12 years later and a desperate try to recover my long, long forgotten password (thus a new account), I come upon this thread, which I completely forgot I created.
Everything is fine now and psychedelics had a BIG role in everything, but more to this later.
First I want to thank from all my heart the people which took the time to help me out here, can't imagine how much I appreciate it, there is hope in this world!
I just could not see this from that gloomy perspective, could not even appreciate the help that I got , it even frustrated me that (I wrongly thought) did not apply to me.
Well..... IT DID! Just that thing don't work out (in time) like we expect them to. Nature has its own ways.
I can see now that all bad was caused from a materialistic view of the world, this poison which is sucking out all meaning out of people life's and is not even grounded in truth, science, nothing, it is just a LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.
Psychedelics thought me otherwise, we know nothing, there is truth and beauty in this world, heck, more, this world is a pure miracle, it is just our ignorance which makes it seem otherwise.
After Shrooms, DMT, Aya, my search ended in 5 MEO-DMT, the God molecule. I met and was one with the cause of all there is, the source, the One, God, however you call it because no words can do it justice. No room for materialism and other bullshit, a self-evident truth which I could later also find expressed by Idealist philosophers because my rational mind needed that.
I believe now that psychedelics are here for a reason and It cannot be otherwise, it would be an impossible coincidence. How can mushrooms, plant extracts and toad secretions cause such changes in our consciousness and bring such understanding?
I hope some of you are still around and can read this and if you know someone with depression, help them to get into psychedelics, it will surely change their life, like they did change mine, they are a miracle.

Thank you all and light to the world!
DST
I think humans weren't made to drive around in metal coffins, going to an indoor job and slaving for 8-10 hours a day, to come home and watch TV while eating processed foods, going to bed late and waking up to a heart pounding alarm sound to do it all over again the next day.

Find an outdoor hobby you like. Socialize with "live" like minded friends who also enjoy those things. Exercise. Eat whole and healthy foods. Get plenty of sleep, and keep your work life at work, and use it as a means to an end for paying for the things you really love to do.

I agree. Social media in it's current form of everyone being the star of EVERY photo, and associating 'likes' to self-worth is mentally destroying people. I have no FB (well I do but I use a fake name, have zero friends, and only use it for FB Marketplace), X, or any other typical social media accounts. There is no value, and I found that I actually felt "bad" most of the time when I visited those sites. I don't even watch the news anymore, because it's draining. I call people on the phone when I want to talk, if they are far away. In fact, I've been thinking about going and buying a roll of stamps (do they even sell rolls of stamps anymore?), and starting to send actual letters (snail mail) to people. :D

Hopefully you live near someplace with a park, or nice place to just walk and see trees and land. We were made to exist in the sunshine and work the earth. We were made to socialize with real people and community. We were made to share with others.

It is really great to read this. I'm new here, and to know that after 12 years someone came back here to thank the community for helping them through depression is amazing, and inspiring.

I hope to read more about you. Thank you for updating the forum. :love:
 
Wonderful news. I'm glad psychedelics helped you on your path in such a powerful way.

though, psychedelics aren't for everyone and are not a pacanea. Lasting change comes from within and psychedelics are merely tools. Powerful tools, and magical tools, but tools nevertheless.

I feel like there's much we as humans have the capacity to do, whether we're meant to or not is an unanswerable query it seems. We just flounder through life :)

One love
 
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