Diatomaceous Earth

[RhythmSpring]

This might seem random, but does anybody here take diatomaceous earth AND drink Ayahuasca / pharmahuasca? I'd like to talk with you.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

We use that in the lab to do vacuum filtration, I didn't think it was edible. What's the point? It's pretty much inert.

Blessings
~ND

 

[jamie]

bonds to form ionic compounds and flush them from the body, apparently. Yeah, I have eaten enough of the stuff. I dunno if it really does anything.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

bonds to form ionic compounds and flush them from the body, apparently. Yeah, I have eaten enough of the stuff. I dunno if it really does anything.

That seems silly - you need plenty of ions to function normally. If you think you're getting too many, why not just eat less salt (or whatever it is that's too high in ionic compounds...).

A quick look at the wiki page doesn't mention anything about eating it (but it is apparently a useful insecticide...).

Maybe I'm just squicked by the thought of eating something I work with in the organic chemistry lab, but If find this very strange.

Blessings
~ND

 

[RhythmSpring]

Do some research.

This is just to pique your curiosity: Amazon Reviews

I recently took some and it DRASTICALLY changed the way my body was functioning... mostly for the better. But something tells me to be cautious with it. It started rebuilding my joints (I have damaged joints) like nobody's business. I got a strong craving for gelatin and raw veggies, ate that, and drank lots and lots and lots of water, increased intestinal motility (was pooping more), was able to hydrate much better, I could go on. My bones felt funny...

This is NOT to be underestimated. For some people it may make a huge difference.

 

[Psybin]

Do some research.

This is just to pique your curiosity: Amazon Reviews

I recently took some and it DRASTICALLY changed the way my body was functioning... mostly for the better. But something tells me to be cautious with it. It started rebuilding my joints (I have damaged joints) like nobody's business. I got a strong craving for gelatin and raw veggies, ate that, and drank lots and lots and lots of water, increased intestinal motility (was pooping more), was able to hydrate much better, I could go on. My bones felt funny...

This is NOT to be underestimated. For some people it may make a huge difference.

Nice, i was running out of snake oil - thanks for showing me where to get more. :roll:

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Do some research.

This is just to pique your curiosity: Amazon Reviews

I recently took some and it DRASTICALLY changed the way my body was functioning... mostly for the better. But something tells me to be cautious with it. It started rebuilding my joints (I have damaged joints) like nobody's business. I got a strong craving for gelatin and raw veggies, ate that, and drank lots and lots and lots of water, increased intestinal motility (was pooping more), was able to hydrate much better, I could go on. My bones felt funny...

This is NOT to be underestimated. For some people it may make a huge difference.

How do you know it's not a placebo effect? I don't know how you administer the DE, but would it be possible to randomize it in such a way that some days (or weeks) you're taking that, and in others, you're taking just raw flour or something?

Whenever a new drug or medicine is being tested, double-blind, placebo-controlled conditions are key to making sure that the drug itself is actually what's having an effect, not our expectations and beliefs.

I'm not saying that your experience isn't true, just that I personally haven't seen enough data to make a call one way or another.

Blessings
~ND

 

[RhythmSpring]

Your standards are different than mine. You look for standardized, double-blind placebo-controlled studies, I look at the hundreds if not thousands of individual personal accounts, and assume that they're not all lying or experiencing placebo when they report remission of extreme conditions. It baffles me that some people discount the mountain of anecdotal evidence.

But, more importantly, this thread is NOT a thread discussing the validity or efficacy of diatomaceous earth. I didn't bring this up to argue with anyone about if it works or not. It works for me.

I made this thread so that I could find other people who take it and speak with them. Thank you.

 

[a1pha]

But, more importantly, this thread is NOT a thread discussing the validity or efficacy of diatomaceous earth. I didn't bring this up to argue with anyone about if it works or not. It works for me.

Then don't bring it up.

If you cannot back up claims (especially ones involving the consumption of shells) then have at least something to back it up. This is not post-only-if-you-can-confirm-my-bias-Nexus -- It is the DMT-Nexus and we like scientific data to back up human claims.

(BTW, I'm not taking a stand one way or another; if it works for you, great. But what is the point of starting a thread if you do not plan to discuss the topic of that thread? Seems kinda pointless for the rest of us... even a little selfish, RS.)

 

[Psybin]

Your standards are different than mine. You look for standardized, double-blind placebo-controlled studies, I look at the hundreds if not thousands of individual personal accounts, and assume that they're not all lying or experiencing placebo when they report remission of extreme conditions. It baffles me that some people discount the mountain of anecdotal evidence.

But, more importantly, this thread is NOT a thread discussing the validity or efficacy of diatomaceous earth. I didn't bring this up to argue with anyone about if it works or not. It works for me.

I made this thread so that I could find other people who take it and speak with them. Thank you.

Anecdotal evidence isn't supportive of anything. If you don't want to be branded a charlatan, don't sell snake oil. The point of the Nexus isn't to fulfill your confirmation bias.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Anecdotal evidence isn't supportive of anything. If you don't want to be branded a charlatan, don't sell snake oil. The point of the Nexus isn't to fulfill your confirmation bias.

That's not entirely fair - each of these three studies is making use of anecdotal evidence, primarily. In each case, it's a self-reported measure by the interviewee. They were all hailed as great news, both her on the Nexus and in the broader psychedelic science community.

The limiting factor with anecdotal evidence is the lack of control: you only ever get correlational data, since there is no control group for an individual. If you have enough anecdotal evidence, and your statistical methods are sufficiently robust, you can at least get a general picture of what trends to look for when beginning controlled studies. Each of those linked to studies where the number of respondents ranged from 600 (at the low end) all the way up to almost 200,000.

Unfortunately, this kind of data is best for validating the null hypothesis. If you say "psychedelics cause mental illness," sufficient anecdotal evidence can be grounds to reject the null. It's harder to go the other way ("DE improves health/gut function/whatever" ) since you can never be sure that it was the DE that did it, and not the placebo effect.

There is a time and place to listen to people's personal accounts, you just have to think critically about them.

Blessings
~ND

 

[Psybin]

Anecdotal evidence isn't supportive of anything. If you don't want to be branded a charlatan, don't sell snake oil. The point of the Nexus isn't to fulfill your confirmation bias.

That's not entirely fair - each of these three studies is making use of anecdotal evidence, primarily. In each case, it's a self-reported measure by the interviewee. They were all hailed as great news, both her on the Nexus and in the broader psychedelic science community.

The limiting factor with anecdotal evidence is the lack of control: you only ever get correlational data, since there is no control group for an individual. If you have enough anecdotal evidence, and your statistical methods are sufficiently robust, you can at least get a general picture of what trends to look for when beginning controlled studies. Each of those linked to studies where the number of respondents ranged from 600 (at the low end) all the way up to almost 200,000.

Unfortunately, this kind of data is best for validating the null hypothesis. If you say "psychedelics cause mental illness," sufficient anecdotal evidence can be grounds to reject the null. It's harder to go the other way ("DE improves health/gut function/whatever" ) since you can never be sure that it was the DE that did it, and not the placebo effect.

There is a time and place to listen to people's personal accounts, you just have to think critically about them.

Blessings
~ND

That is true, I should have put what I said in context. I didn't mean that anecdotal evidence is never useful, but rather in this situation. Still, when you consider the fact that ingestion of silica can have negative consequences (like wearing down and scratching your tooth enamel, for example, or silicosis if you accidentally inhale it), claims of health benefits require a large burden of proof which is by definition not met with anecdotal evidence. At its most basic level, it's a dessicant, which I can't see being good for your GI tract. I'm sure if you ate enough, you could seriously dehydrate yourself.

Now, as for the cell wall component, I'm not sure what type of health benefits one would reap. If anything, I'd be worried about the abrasive nature of the sediment. Plus, why would you want something so absorbant and dehydrating in your gut? I can't imagine that being good for your microflora. And if you're not careful, you could get silicosis with long term exposure to the lungs.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Yeah, all very good points.

RhythmSpring: What is the proposed mechanism by which it's supposed to improve health?

Blessings
~ND

 

[Spaced Out 2]

What is the point you all are trying to make?

That you clearly haven't tried it or that you will keep trying to shame someone for doing something different then what's in your Hopkins studies. That's more or less what your doing here when you can research it yourself.

So will you keep pestering until you get the answer you want to hear?

How about spend a few bucks and try it yourself before calling BS, if not how about showing support for someone who may be finding some kind of benefit even if it is a "placebo effect". It's obviously not that bad for people when so many seem to be taking it, it just may not be for you.


Good for you RS for finding some personal benefits. And for trying something that didn't have a mountain of data to dismiss it as quackery :?

Anyone else taken this stuff other than Jamie and RS?
Why did you take it jamie?

 

[inaniel]

I've used it on and off for a while. Can definitely notice a difference when I do. Notice improved skin and digestive health. I'm in really good shape physically too. Does this help with that? I don't know, just wanted to brag. I've recommended it to a few people whose enjoyed it as well.


Definitely glad I didn't wait around for studies to prove something will help my health when I experienced a decline physically. The side effects to some commonly accepted meds or drugs is incredible. I was once given a folder of waivers for some acne medication which caused high incidences of depression and suicide. The doctor said this was normal. What kind of world...

 

[Spaced Out 2]

I've used it on and off for a while. Can definitely notice a difference when I do. Notice improved skin and digestive health. I'm in really good shape physically too. Does this help with that? I don't know, just wanted to brag. I've recommended it to a few people whose enjoyed it as well.

So did it improve the acne? Is that what you mean by improved skin?

Just ordered some so I will try it for myself and come to my own conclusions, glad you seemed to have found some benefit from it as well inaniel. I don't mind taking risks once in awhile


Peace

 

[Psilociraptor]

I've used it on and off for a while. Can definitely notice a difference when I do. Notice improved skin and digestive health. I'm in really good shape physically too. Does this help with that? I don't know, just wanted to brag. I've recommended it to a few people whose enjoyed it as well.


Definitely glad I didn't wait around for studies to prove something will help my health when I experienced a decline physically. The side effects to some commonly accepted meds or drugs is incredible. I was once given a folder of waivers for some acne medication which caused high incidences of depression and suicide. The doctor said this was normal. What kind of world...

I don't doubt that some of those acne meds contributed significantly to my current health decline... Prescribing antibiotics like candy... What a mess.

Would be interested in info on this one. Saw one small trial measuring lipoprotein alterations. Not sure id use it without further research but I am curious as to the proposed mechanisms

 

[slewb]

I've got a big bag of this stuff for pest control, so maybe I will try it out. How long are you supposed to eat it in order to see results?

 

[Spaced Out 2]

From what I've seen 3days on, but that's according to the Internet. Probably should make sure it's food grade though before taking it. Always safety first.

 

[slewb]

Yeah it's food grade. I think the only stuff you can buy that isn't food grade is for pool filters. Silicosis apparently is only a risk with crystalline silica.

I found this so there's indication that there is at least some health effect.