Did I just been scammed ? Ayahuasca retreat Peru, 3 ceremonies report

[starway6]

You would have gotten more for your money...350 dollars first timers.
[[.part of that is a membership charg]] ... at the ..[ peyote way church of god]... in Wilcox arizona...a nice strong mescaline trip under the stars with a blazing camp fire to keep you warm...

being charged 15 hundred dollars would have made me suspicious as to what kind of group they were!


Inmost south american countrys.. 500 US dollars... is big bucks to them
!but charging 15 hundred on top of your air fare seems suspicious!!

 

[starway6]

Walkingstick in the Peyote Way Church Green House - May ... - YouTube
Video for peyote way church of god...you tube▶ 2:01

May 13, 2016 - Uploaded by Walkingstick 79
Just a few clips from my visit to the Peyote Way Church green house in Arizona. It was amazing to bask in the ...

 

[Hector]

I read these Peruvian shamans are notorious for giving weak brews. It is the same with San Pedro ceremonies in the Andes. The brews are often weak. They conduct cleaning rituals and a lot of people are put off by that.

It takes a lot of ayahausca to have a trip which approaches ego dissolution. I know what it's like to hunger for that experience but when it really happens to you, there is a high chance it will be terrifying. I know I wish I had a trained curandero with me when I was having a hard time. And some people just can't handle those kinds of doses. Only one of my trips even comes close. You won't regret it afterwards, but you might during the trip.

You really wanted to heal yourself from your anxiety. I think only you know what the next step in your journey is. There is nothing to be ashamed of. I have never had long lasting anxiety from psychedelics. There is certainly an element of danger when dealing with strangers in the amazon. A true Shaman of integrity from what I have read will never prevent a person from taking part in a ceremony if money is an obstacle. They will ask for money to help you let go and receive merit and the money will go to feed themselves and the rest donated to the community. You are also paying for the center's services, and they collaborate with the shamans. I think the self-help guru ego complex thing is not as big a deal in Peru though.

I am surprised they would not let you drink more. Some need less, others more. Datura is a good brew potentiator as well.

 

[CosmicLion]

Datura is a good brew potentiator as well.

:thumb_dow

Yea, and one that kills people, causes brain damage, and is given un-expectadly to tourist who think they are just drinking Aya...

 

[pitubo]

Datura is a good brew potentiator as well.

What rock are you living under? Datura is definitely not safe.

 

[Fidelsbeard]

Is history repeating itself? When knowledge of these chemical compounds/molecules went mainstream in the 60's and the term "psychedelic" was coined some people hoped their use could assist humanity to grow and a new age begin. The reality was: oppression by the authorities,misinformation by the media and the "psychedelic community",reckless individual use causing "psychotic breaks",so called "gurus" who claimed to know the answers to the workings of the universe and consciousness itself.
I think we can grow as individuals and improve our society by use of psychedelics. Love, compassion, openness, feeling part of a universal chain of being from the "big bang" to the now...this is enlightenment,awakening to my mind.
Today we have, You tube gurus shouting to the world how they know the secret of existence, pop psychologists/biologists telling us how the pineal gland works and it's relation to DMT; re-invention of shamonic rituals for tourists desperate to buy into something that will cure them or give answers to who knows what and vulnerable people will be ripped off or badly hurt when there is no integration or follow up.
Where is it all heading? Hopefully not to more media scares and repression of study and oppression of people who use them.
The Nexus is a shining light in the chaos, I am very grateful for the care and love which generates it, thank you...

 

[○]

Time and experience prior could probably land you in a preferred scenario with a good ayahuasquero/curandero, I think especially now [today] it can often take time, research, and perseverance to find someone proper.

Maybe learn to work with these plants on your own, develop a dialogue that way instead of through a middleman, and mind you - a middle man that has his own interests, hopes, fears, hangups [they're human] and everything else [despite how they can appear to you]. We're just as much a part of this sacrality as those up river tribal peoples are, I think we can often forget that.

I think continually working with these things on a personal note, given the context, intent of the individual, where they are in their life, etc - I think you can derive just as much benefit as paying for a plane ticket and how much ever money for ceremony in another country. Not to downplay the entire experience of traveling to another country and getting to experience this - I honestly think that that would be incredible in its own right.

Also not to downplay the history of folk use of these medicines and what's left in terms of knowledge and their specific modalities used to help, navigate and whathaveyou, I think depending on the ayahuasquero/curandero ..alot can be learned and applied.

Sometimes I think we don't trust ourselves as fully as we should ..in terms of facing these experiences on our own. Casting doubt on ourselves/our abilities amongst other things, I don't think we give ourselves that much credit often times.

Just my personal thoughts on this, I hope you can get to experience what you're wanting to

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Yea, and one that kills people, causes brain damage, and is given un-expectadly to tourist who think they are just drinking Aya...

The one with the brain damage I never heard of before. Well sure in high enough dosages it is lethal.

Scopolamine used in smaller amounts is no problem (e.g. against motion sickness it is one of the best substances there is). Hyoscyamine is used as anti nerve agent. But surely the LD50 of these substances is very low, so the safety ratio is very low, and you anyways don't want to go dosage wise into the deliriant zone.

Surely it is nothing that should be played with if people do not exactly know what they do. Especially in plant material the amounts vary so drastically that it is very difficult to dose correctly.

But datura is known to have been used from some shamans as admixture, and in the correct amount, it IMHO also shouldn't be a problem. But that surely should never be done by any "home practitioner" or anyone not knowing exactly what he does.

 

[Eaglepath]

This is common....

They serve very weak tea to tourists.... for several reason.

1. There is truth in what many shamans say, in that a lot of the really deep emotional healing comes from the sub-visionary space on Aya and the "visuals" can take away from the healing. I believe there is some truth to this, but the visuals IME lead to an overall my profound experience which IME leads to greater healing afterward.

2. They don't want to have to deal with people who freak out and potentially need personal treatment and\or need to be restrained.

THAT BEING SAID

It is absolutely NOT true that you "don't feel it" the first 20-30 times... In huge groups, I've seen the first 1-2 times people may not feel it as much, but not 20-30... Their brew was just weak.

IT IS PRETTY MUCH THE WAY...

...that retreats offer a traditional setting, traditional teachings, etc but offer NOTORIOUSLY weak brews...

It's just the way it is. If you want it stronger, brew your own...

:thumb_up:

Having some experience in this field I agree with said above. It is very common. It is also common that they serve pure Ayahuasca brew without any additional plant.

"The universe has no obligation to make sense to you", and.... "the retreat has no obligation to produce visuals for you" - Every Shaman has their brew and they can vary significantly.

Like some already mentioned it is a good idea to brew your own Ayahuasca. I do not see the point of going into mushrooms and what else was advised. If you went all the way to the jungle, I believe she is calling you. And this was a first encounter with the Maestra. Now you just need to brew a strong brew and the visual world will soon appear.. DO NOT DIDDLE THE DOSE!

 

[CosmicLion]

But that surely should never be done by any "home practitioner" or anyone not knowing exactly what he does.

In the spirit of harm reduction... it is worth stating....

Scopalamine is used in the medical industry in low amounts, its on the WHO (World Health Organization) list of most important drugs to have in a pharmacy...

Even crazier, for over a century, up until recently, it was what they put in eye drops at the optometrist to dilate your eyes to examine them... Giving everyone who goes to the eye doctor their own little shamanic initiation...

:!:

But the potency of plants varies extremely leaf to leaf, flower to flower.

The only safe way to go about it is to make a tincture... filter out the plant material... then you have a tincture of known potency.

Then, you can start with a couple drops of this tincture batch and work up from there...

A dose that induces any kind of visionary state is at neurotoxic levels...

And the dose that that gives your the full visionary state is DANGEROUSLY close to the dose that will kill you. Even in moderate doses, you can start to notice extreme respiratory depression...

Also worth noting, that THE STANDARD for testing how well a new nootropic pharmaceutical or plant substance repairs brain damage... is... to GIVE the rats brain damage using scopalamine then see'ing how well the new compound repairs it... Just some food for thought.

:thumb_dow

 

[CosmicLion]

Also worth noting, that THE STANDARD for testing how well a new nootropic pharmaceutical or plant substance repairs brain damage... is... to GIVE the rats brain damage using scopalamine then see'ing how well the new compound repairs it... Just some food for thought.

Tropanes stay in your system for 2 weeks after you take them....

As such, they accumulate, day after day. So even if one particular dose is OK for you, if you take it daily, it can build up, then, quite all of the sudden, you find your world very strange and unpleasant and you may notice aftereffects for many months, if not indefinitely.

The damage acquired from tropanes is cumulative throughout a lifetime. Each time you use it, it causes more damage. I've seen people develop life long severe memory issues from using even moderate amounts of it too much over the years.

Even being involved in Magick and Shamanism communities.... I still only see most people ever use a SMALL DOSE.... MAYBE once or twice a year. With a VERY specific prayer a VERY specific intent. They meditate with it the whole day they take it. Then they set a date, 2 weeks after the dose, and during the entire 2 week period they focus and meditate on their intention and prayer ALL DAY EVERY DAY.... while they go about their work, and also through meditating at home.

:?

 

[Spiralout]

I'm still not entirely sure I understand what is going on from reading your posts McShroomer.

Were you still taking ssris/xanax during the trip you took? Are you taking them still now? If you are; this is something worth spending time thinking about before proceeding with psychs (at the very least these medications can be very dangerous combined with maois).

It's still not clear whether or not you plan on going on another one of these excursions. As I said before, I recommend you do this stuff by yourself as it will be less expensive and will put the responsibility on you rather than someone else. The mind set of having some one else do the work for you does not make any sense... You will just be taken advantage of in most cases. Also , you mentioned not wanting this shaman to cast spells on you or something like that?? Forget about that, if someone screws you over then you have every right to talk about it and people like that don't have any power anyways or they wouldn't be taking advantage of people.

You said you have access to mushrooms in your area.... Take the opportunity and make sure they are the kind of mushrooms you think they are before ingesting any.. That is what you should be focusing on now. If they ARE indeed the proper mushrooms then you are all set. No more researching aya retreats or any of that nonsense; you have the power at your finger tips. It's up to you when and how to use it.

As far as not seeing anything written about people serving weak brew and all that jazz on aya retreats... Well, things depend on WHO you are talking to not WHAT you are talking about.... So there you have it. Aya retreats and all that stuff are notorious for exploiting people in various ways.

If you would like to write another post that is written clearer so we can understand where your heads at, that could be useful. Are you still taking medications? Were you at the time you went on the retreat? What are you plans now?

Be safe and listen to yourself.

 

[Mr&Mrs McShulfman]

Hi,
I think you are doing the right way, i think there is nothing to be changed. You want to heal yourself and it is happening yet, the trip you had is a part of this looong path you are on.
Maybe many people who drink in there own home or city or country do not realize that ayahuasca is a person like me and you and that this person's home is the amazonian jungle. The jungle itself is a being and inside her body live all the plants, trees, insects, humans, animals, etc... We are all family and the ayahuasca is considered by native people as the mother of all those beings. They ask the ayahuasca to show them what they want but before getting the visions they make strong diets which clean there body in order to see and here we are not talking about a two weeks retreat, we are talking about living into the jungle for mounths, even years with no contact with other humans. Drinking ayahuasca can be a way to reconnect with what and who we are and by doing this heal ourselves. For this we need to reconnect first with what we call "the nature" which is nothing more than our family. If you continue to drink she will show you what you want to see, just remember that it takes time. It can take the whole life to realize that the medicine is working. For exemple if you choose to go and visit her home again, meet her rivers, her trees, the people who walk everyday on her floor and who eat her animals, i'm pretty sure that it will be a life changing experience. Maybe during your quest you will have the possibility to drink the medicine again and she will show you what's real.
Our vision is a very important thing that we have and many people take many kinds of medicines, they do get a lot of visuals but nothing to feed their vision and so they stay lost, locked in themselves.

 

[Sabnock1990]

^ One can do just fine taking/working with Aya on their own in their home, no need to go to the jungle. Plenty of healing/discovery/spirituality/mysticism/teachings/knowledge/insights/inspiration/connection/nature, etc, from just the plants and you, no matter where you are.

People should never feel like they're required to goto the jungle to work with Aya, especially when you can get so much doing things on your own. Sure you might not get what you'd get from the jungle, but solo/home journey's can be equally as valuable imo, the jungle, the shaman, the diets, not necessary, all that's necessary are you, the plants, open mindedness, receptivity, and dedication.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Also, it might be worth investigating Psilohuasca (mushrooms with Harmalas/Rue/Caapi) as well if you can get ahold of mushrooms, different medicine but still similar and interesting. But oral DMT definitely takes the cake for me.

 

[Mr&Mrs McShulfman]

Hi shamensstamen, lets imagine something if you want so...
I'm from burkina faso and you are from canada. I'm traveling in canada when i meet you. We have a really good time together and we become friends. I say to you "hey come with me in my village in burkina faso, you gonna meet my family, you gonna see how we live there in africa, you will see how different is the life there". If you refuse we will still be good friends and what we learn from each other is still valuable but if you come with me you will understand who i am and where i'm from. For me it would sound like "ok i have my life here in canada but i feel ready to sacrify it to learn more about this guy from burkina". Imagine how hard it is to dedicate a part of your life to something. You have to forget all the things that you know, everything that you are used to. This is the purpose of diet. If you feel sick you have to die and reborn with a new body and fresh energy. This is the purpose of ayahuasca. Why so many people of native cultures call this plant "la madre", " the mother" ? Or "the little death" ? Now if you really want to go through this process you have to loose your mind, your reason and when this happens it is a good thing to have someone stable and strong to take care of you. This is the purpose of a "shaman". You will confront the Unknown, you will integrate The Tradition, you will Transform yourself into many things, the Spirits of nature will come to you and teach you how to dance, how to sing, they will impose themselves to you, they will accept you at the same time you accept them and for the first time you will feel integrated in life, you will feel deep respect for the rivers who bring you water to live, for the plants who feed you like a baby, for the trees who teach you the important things of life, for the animals who are so... like you, for the earth, the sun and the stars. And more important, for yourself. You will be able to look at yourself the way nature does, without judgement. This is the purpose of the jungle, she makes you remember that you are innocent.
That is right, many people do not need to go through this kind of initiation and for other people the moment has come. When the moment has come you can't stay at home, you have to give yourself to the Nature, accept that she owns you, sacrify everything.
Jungle is absolutely required to drink ayahuasca because without jungle there is no ayahuasca and we could consider this as one of the most life engaging lesson from the plant. "Please come to visit my home, i will present you all the family, all this is not only about buying my body in a shop and consume me the same way you go to the cinema or play with me the same way you play with a new video game. If you really want to know me you have to enter my world."

 

[Mr&Mrs McShulfman]

But anyways it only depends of what each one is dreaming about. I respect your point of view, i just wanted to talk !

 

[Sabnock1990]

I strongly disagree, everything you said i've gotten from the plants on my own in the comfort of my own home.

All i'm saying is, no need to diet or restrict Tyramine or anything like that, there's no dietary interactions/reactions and nothing in the diet will interfere with the effects of the medicine.

With that said, if i did travel and go somewhere, i would respect the customs/traditions/cultures and would put myself in their shoes, i have no problem with that. The only issue i have is when someone says you can not work with Aya clearly and fully unless you have a shaman or are in the jungle or are dieting, etc. Aya works fully and clearly on one's own without all that. Yes it does help to have an experienced person around if you need help, but at least for me personally i can handle myself just fine on Aya, no matter the dosages, i'm Autistic so idk if that plays into it or not, some people may need outside help, others don't.

Also, i was self-initiated.

 

[Spiralout]

Just to make it clear: you CAN NOT have any kind of diet that you want in combination with harmala alkaloids or any other MAOI ... Which is obviously something present in ayahuasca.

Yes; as far as MAOIs go, harmalas tend to be much more forgiving than other MAOIs... But that doesn't mean you can ingest anything you want while they are in your system. What you ARE able to ingest is different for everyone and even changes within the same individual over time and according to multiple variable. Some people can't have coffee or chocolate in combination with harmalas; other people are fine.

They are forgiving but be wary, be aware, and be careful..

They can kill you..

Advising someone that they can have any kind of diet in combination with ayahuasca is irresponsible and dangerous...


Be safe.

 

[Mr&Mrs McShulfman]

Thanks spractral for recalling it.
We are all self initiated, that is the only way.
Do you think that native people make diets for no reason ? (Make a diet in this context means being isolated with absolutely no contact with humans or just with few chosen persons, eat with no salt, no sugar, no acid, no oil at all. Traditionally that means only boiled green banana. Take a medicine during this time. And this process can last from few days to entire years)
Just spend one month in wild nature alone with no salt and no sugar and you will start to have an idea of why native people do this. If you drink the medicine every two days during this period you will meet her differently.

We have to be very carefull to not associate the business some people make with the plants with an authentic practice. They are two very different things that have the tendency to melt nowadays. It is a very life engaging decision to learn millenarian symbiotic practices that people do with the plants. Obviously you will have to avoid all the centers and people who ask you to pay for drinking. It can make the quest really hard and it is normal.