Did I just been scammed ? Ayahuasca retreat Peru, 3 ceremonies report

[Lumina]

Yep, my body is fully accustomed with harmalas. I’ve always took the time to build up reverse tolerance before any macrodose I planned on taking. And yeah, I’ve never encountered any problems, not even the slightest sign of nausea from rue alks. It is only when caapi comes into play that things take this turn.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Yeah looking back at the Tyramine containing food list, i've eaten most of those foods, even while on Harmalas, never noticed any Tyramine related issues.

Also you have tried it without any DMT in the mix, correct? Because especially with the come up of DMT, it can be easy to think you've done something wrong lol. Harmalas-only is the way to go to test for any possible dietary interactions.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Yep, my body is fully accustomed with harmalas. I’ve always took the time to build up reverse tolerance before any macrodose I planned on taking. And yeah, I’ve never encountered any problems, not even the slightest sign of nausea from rue alks. It is only when caapi comes into play that things take this turn.

That's interesting, because Rue is said to be of much more concern, supposedly, when it comes to Tyramine compared to Caapi. Do you combine Rue and Caapi? Because there could potentially be something in either plant that doesn't synergize with something in the other plant.

Also are you sure you're consuming enough Harmalas to build up the reverse tolerance and do away with the side-effects? Because Rue alks will definitely cause nausea/vomiting with a good enough dosage unless the reverse tolerance is built up. Caapi seems less likely to cause nausea/vomiting compared to Rue, but still will with a good enough dosage.

 

[Lumina]

One thing I gotta point out. I hope to not be misunderstood in that I definitely have nothing against these facts. On the contrary, the intel is very welcomed, I’ve heard it being speculated before and hearing it again only strenghthens my trust in the medicine. So cheers for that. I do have this one concern presented here though and I’ve followed every lead I could. I can only attribute it to something I had to eat thus far, specifically aged food.

 

[Lumina]

Rue and caapi combination, yes.

 

[Sabnock1990]

One thing I gotta point out. I hope to not be misunderstood in that I definitely have nothing against these facts. On the contrary, the intel is very welcomed, I’ve heard it being speculated before and hearing it again only strenghthens my trust in the medicine. So cheers for that. I do have this one concern presented here though and I’ve followed every lead I could. I can only attribute it to something I had to eat thus far, specifically aged food.

Don't worry, you're not misunderstood at all. I can completely understand any concerns one may have, especially with the conflicting information on the internet. I would say the only way to know for sure, is to take pure Harmalas (Harmine/Harmaline mix), build up the reverse tolerance by taking a good dose like 200mgs daily (decreasing the dosage bit by bit as you go along due to the reverse tolerance building up and the dosage getting stronger) for 2 to 3 weeks (if possible), and then try eating some foods right before or after consuming the Harmalas, that should very well tell you if there's anything dietary going on. Also if you can try out some Moclobemide, see if you notice anything from that.

But at the end of the day, if you feel you're having some sort of reaction to something in the food, just be safe, don't eat right before or right after consuming Harmalas, and you'll be fine. As i said the gut's MAO-A inhibition is very short in duration, a maximum of 2 hours with Harmalas in capsule form, and probably less (like maybe 20 minutes) with Harmalas in tea form. I haven't worked much at all with Harmalas in tea form, only in capsule form, but tea form is said to be absorbed quicker and thus gut MAO-A isn't inhibited as long as it is by Harmala capsules, which is why Harmala teas are a bit more finicky when it comes to activating oral DMT compared to Harmala capsules. So just avoid certain foods for a 2 to 4 hours if you feel the need to and all will be fine.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Rue and caapi combination, yes.

That could explain it, but i'm not sure because i have yet to combine them. I've thought many times before that they'd make a great combo, so there may be nothing wrong, but there's the possibility imo that something could be in Caapi (or that specific vine you're using) that could be conflicting with something in the Rue (since both Rue and Caapi have their other compounds). Have you tried other kinds of Caapi vine to see if maybe it's just related to that specific kind of vine? Maybe other kinds of Caapi would do fine.

I have only used Rue seed, Rue extract, and Harmala extract, as well as pure Harmine, and Moclobemide. I've only had Caapi vine (Tigre variety) a few times by itself.

 

[Lumina]

Have you tried other kinds of Caapi vine to see if maybe it's just related to that specific kind of vine? Maybe other kinds of Caapi would do fine.

I have only used Rue seed, Rue extract, and Harmala extract, as well as pure Harmine, and Moclobemide. I've only had Caapi vine (Tigre variety) a few times by itself.

This particular batch of muricata I’ve smoked, straight bits of wood, while predosed on rue alkaloids and also while sober. When sober the consequential symptoms were not present. When I had predosed extracted rue alkaloids and smoked the plain vine on top, I always had to deal with at least a couple of minutes of tumultuous effects. I remember doing it again, dose after
dose in combination with changa and the tough symptoms would lower in intensity but still there.

With harmala freebase isolate from yellow caapi, used in generous amount for a changa blend, same symptom would still be present, this time bundled with a semi purge sensation though not physically purging. I should add that this time no rue was used.

Some of my conclusions until this point are the already mentioned ones, the potency of caapi that seems to hit hard even in very tiny amounts and unprocessed, or the weak ssri activity of the thh in caapi interacting with the high ingested doses of harmaloids at that exact moment e.g oral+smoked at very close intervals.

Either way, one good thing about this whole experience is that I’m lucky enough to have at least one potent batch of vine and even though at times it was rough, it delivered quite some impressive episodes.

 

[Sabnock1990]

Interesting, i wouldn't think smoked vine would do much but i guess it could, i know Rue seed does as Rue seed naturally is pretty potent but i prefer to smoke extracts on top of an herb like Cannabis rather than the actual seeds, though i have also smoked Caapi leaf but didn't really notice much from it, noticed a little something but not much. The only issue i've had from smoked Harmalas or Rue seed was a bit of nausea and purging a time or two. Though it's worth keeping in mind that smoked Harmalas/Rue/Caapi goes straight to the head, whereas oral Harmalas/Rue/Caapi is more full bodied, so one possibility could be that the smoked Caapi on top of oral Harmalas/Rue could potentiate the brain effects which could potentially cause some differences compared to oral consumption. THH from the Caapi could possibly do something, but it could just be something else in the Caapi. Also keep in mind that smoked Harmalas wouldn't affect gut MAO-A from my understanding, only the brain and liver MAO-A.

I think it's safe to say it isn't anything dietary though. Also, are you taking any supplements by any chance? Some supplements, herbs, even certain minerals have potential to interact with Aya in an odd way. I know for me personally Magnesium Oxide and Zinc Gluconate do not go well with Aya and causes some odd heart issues and some weird brain zap effect that is quite different compared to the regular brain zaps i've gotten before. I personally would say to be more cautious about supplements, herbs, minerals (though i'm mainly referring to supplemental minerals rather than the natural ones), coffee and such like that rather than food.

Just remember, if you (or anyone else) experiences some odd effects/reactions, don't automatically assume it's food-related, there's a good bit more going on with the Harmalas, the plants, the DMT, that people often times confuse/mistake for food reactions. It's better to be experimental and try to figure things out rather than assuming the worst.

 

[Lumina]

Yeah, well said SS! Though I dislike it, I should get to the bottom of this soon. I’l do more experiments as soon as I’ll have the time.

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

[Sabnock1990]

Np, and for sure, only way to really know what's going on for you personally is to experiment around and try to figure things out. Be sure to keep us informed though of your experimentation and we can try to get to the bottom of this, for sure.