Disappointing first time: is the experience any more than the mind giving meaning to fractal images?

[CrimsonElf]

Edit: Apologies, this should have been in the First steps in Hyperspace section I think.

I'm just writing down my experience mostly for myself but if any experienced user would like to offer advice I'd be really grateful.

I just tried DMT for the first time today (haven't done any drugs in 15 years). I'm not after a fancy bright lights experience but rather was searching for answers to some long-term roadblocks in my life. I tried about 25mg of the crystals sandwiched between some tea leaves in a pipe (if I was to get some again I would try changa instead).

The first attempt was with a friend and after two hits I put it down as I couldn't do anymore (I'm really not used to smoking). I saw weird patterns but it didn't last very long, maybe 5 mins. I remember looking at a picture of a spiritual master and the image seemed to collapse in on itself making him look not human (not really in a good way). After that, I closed my eyes instead and just saw yantra-like intense patterns in my mind. My friend thought that most of it was still in the pipe.

The second time, a few hours later, I finished off the pipe but this was much weaker. It took about 4 hits to fully finish it and I was sort of mentally stopping or postponing the experience during that time to try and finish it all. Every time I closed my eyes I saw strange patterns which the mind interpreted as beings watching me, but they disappeared when I opened my eyes.

To be honest I found both experiences pretty disappointing and was wondering if that's all DMT is: the mind making sense of and giving meaning to strange fractal-like shapes? I still have about 100mg left and was considering buying the GVG Vaporgenie sherlock. I'm fairly sure I burnt off a lot of the stuff today (thus rendering it ineffective?) and I've heard vaping is far superior. I guess I'm just pondering if there is really something there that could help me or enable me to learn about myself and these roadblocks or if it's just pretty patterns with a healthy imagination. I don't doubt the reports that I've read, they felt very sincere, I'm just kind of bummed mine was nothing like them ... the whole thing didn't really have a good vibe (despite much mental preparation), it felt sort of dirty in a way and not like the sacred and intelligent spice I was looking for.

PS. I just read another thread here suggesting that DMT wasn't such a good method for introspection/finding answers, so that might answer my question.

Whatever happens, I just wanted to thank the community here for providing such great guides, I've spent hours reading these the last few days.

 

[pete666]

Dmt can be used for healing, but it all depends on the content/software of your brain/mind and your intent. Not all plant teachers are compatible with everyones mind. Fortunately we can communicate with our deep subconsciousness and we can ask for some guidance. Yes, there is some form of intelligence and it can help us to find what we need. Not necessarily what we want, but getting what we need is much more valuable at the end, so no need to worry or dissapoint. The sound of this source is mostly quiet and it is easy for our ego to drown it out. So the ability to hear the sound calls for some practice.

Using the plant teachers as a medicine is not an one shot strategy. We need to work with them, to accept all they are giving us, integrate the experience and be grateful for whatever we get. Not everything important is happening in our conscious mind. There may be (and are) some very important processes behind what we see, but there usually is some feeling telling us something is happening. Again, this feeling is weak, but after some practice it is not a problem to identify it.

Firstly identify the right teacher/healer. It can be dmt, mushrooms, mescaline. My current choice is mescaline, but for you it can be something else.

Then select proper ROA. For healing I suggest longer lasting experiences which are hardly accessed by vaping. For all teachers it can be rectal ROA (my favorite) or oral ROA.

Then select frequency of use. You can use trial/error method, but communication with higher ourself is much more effective approach.

Then acquire the medicine and follow the instructions, if you have access to them. If not, I suggest applying for.

The best medicine is your own medicine. Grow or at least extract your own if possible. Buying it on the black market is not the best approach.

And get ready for unpleasant experiences. Healing doesn't mean you will experience positive pleasant journeys. Maybe sometimes, but mostly not. What is important is the feeling at the end of the experience and the days/weeks after. This is the feedback telling you what is really happening. What you saw or felt is not important. What is important is the change that happened deeply inside us.

 

[Jees]

...searching for answers to some long-term roadblocks in my life...
...enable me to learn about myself and these roadblocks...

For things like this I don't head for inhaling smoke. Too short and too much/fast to follow. Even when you can follow parts, often one looses it in the return. Too volatile to make it analytical or functional imho.

As pete666 said you might benefit from a slower and less volatile experience. It does not mean less deep or profound! Just different in nature, better suited for your endeavours at hand.

Again an OP that leans toward: usage of spice is going to show it, giving grabs, intel, solutions, how things are, etc etc...
It's not like that it doesn't give answers such and so, you'll get more questions!

 

[ajlala]

It seems you absorbed a very low dose of the drug (possibly due to your lungs not being accustomed to the smoke) and you only got very mild effects, but nowhere close to breaking through.

 

[Jees]

It seems you absorbed a very low dose of the drug (possibly due to your lungs not being accustomed to the smoke) and you only got very mild effects, but nowhere close to breaking through.

First he did 25 which is not a BT certified quantity, for many people it only starts there if token with one hit. His second try he needed 4 hits to finish, this in itself says a lot about non efficient vaping, the experience was likely some effects, a dipping toe in the water, cool for starters though.

 

[CrimsonElf]

Life has been so hectic I didn't get a chance to reply until now but I really appreciate all your thoughts. It takes time and mental energy to read a stranger's rambling post and compose a coherent reply, so thank you.

Yes, there is some form of intelligence and it can help us to find what we need. Not necessarily what we want

That's actually what I'm looking for, I'm very aware of my own limitations and how little of the whole I can see. I guess I just wanted to get past this feeling of being stuck.

Firstly identify the right teacher/healer. It can be dmt, mushrooms, mescaline.

As you can probably tell, I'm very new to all of this. The ones that I felt were the most interesting were DMT, Iboga and Psilocybin.

DMT because it is said to be so powerful and transporting.
Iboga because of possible healing of negative thought patterns and behaviors.
And Psilocybin because of the amazingly transformative report I head on a Sam Harris podcast:

I tried LSD as a teenager and hated it (though probably because I wasn't mentally prepared). MDMA was the only drug I really liked because I felt such a profound feeling of love and connection on that.

For healing I suggest longer lasting experiences which are hardly accessed by vaping.

This is good advice I think.

follow the instructions, if you have access to them. If not, I suggest applying for.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by this?

And get ready for unpleasant experiences. Healing doesn't mean you will experience positive pleasant journeys. Maybe sometimes, but mostly not. What is important is the feeling at the end of the experience and the days/weeks after. This is the feedback telling you what is really happening. What you saw or felt is not important. What is important is the change that happened deeply inside us.

Thank you, it's posts like yours that made me want to try psychedelics in the first place. I know what you're saying and clearly, it comes from a place of hard work and deep experience.

 

[CrimsonElf]

the experience was likely some effects, a dipping toe in the water, cool for starters though.

That's exactly what it was

 

[CrimsonElf]

Again an OP that leans toward: usage of spice is going to show it, giving grabs, intel, solutions, how things are, etc etc...
It's not like that it doesn't give answers such and so, you'll get more questions!

Yeah, I'm beginning to see that now, I think the preparation stuff I read was too intention focused and perhaps surrendering and letting go is a much more powerful way of doing it. What would you suggest if I was after spiritual answers/solutions etc. (if anything)? Psilocybin, Iboga?

I still might get the GVG and see if I can do it properly with the spice I have remaining. One thing that makes me wary though, that I read somewhere here, is people getting some kind of amazing experience/insight and then thinking they are special and developing a kind of arrogance, I think this is one of the worst of all traits.

 

[pete666]

As you can probably tell, I'm very new to all of this. The ones that I felt were the most interesting were DMT, Iboga and Psilocybin.

DMT because it is said to be so powerful and transporting.
Iboga because of possible healing of negative thought patterns and behaviors.
And Psilocybin because of the amazingly transformative report I head on a Sam Harris podcast:

I tried LSD as a teenager and hated it (though probably because I wasn't mentally prepared). MDMA was the only drug I really liked because I felt such a profound feeling of love and connection on that.

Just ensure, anything I write here is just my experience, it is not a common truth. Obvious, but better to stress it.

I dont't have any experience with ibogaine. I just think it is too heavy for "normal" healing. It is difficult to acquire and the experience seems to be quite rough. Maybe good for heroin or alcohol addiction, but I hope it is not your case.

In my experience, mushrooms have helped me alot, but I don't feel I might use them regularly. They are quite psychedelic and my feeling is I may use them once or twice a year, not more often. If used properly, they are really magic and can help with problems though.

I still have to use dmt for healing. It is good in showing me my real fears, but I never saw any real healing result in my everyday life. It's not it can't be used for this purpose, I have it in my toolbox and the possession is not my choice, so I believe it may be of some real use in the future. But now it has just the role of tool which can get me to another world, where I sometimes like to be.

Mescaline. Yes, this is the medicine. Honestly, if I could suggest, I would suggest exactly this kind of healing. I feel it is connected to the right source, I feel I can believe it. It is not as psychedelic (at reasonable dosage) as psilocybine or dmt are. It is much easier to handle and I can operate normally. It lasts whole day, but I can do almost everything I would normally do, including interactions with people. And I can do things I can't normally do, which is lovely. It opens my mind, removes my blocks. I can't imagine this with psilocybine for example. Psilocybine can remove blocks in long run, but it can even boost blocks while under influence.

LSD can be powerfull, and it helped me many years before. But now, when I take much better way of life and my inner setting is much more correct, when I tried to use lsd as a medicine for healing, I got very strong answer this is not the right way. I can't say if it is applicable to other people or it is just my case, but it turned to be useless for this purpose. My feeling is it lacks the connection with the right guiding source, which plant teachers do have. It is like having fire without anyone telling you how to (or why not to) use it.

I wouldn't use MDMA for healing. It can solve some problems, but I would say it is not going to solve intrapersonal, but rather interpersonal problems. It has higher addiction potential, which I believe is main indicator for correct selection of healer. Anything above mescaline in this graph is out of discussion.

follow the instructions, if you have access to them. If not, I suggest applying for.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by this?

You may take my intstructions as a base and try to communicate them within your mind. Try to treat your mind as an independent intelligent source of information and try to ask it for help. Please bear in mind that if you don't live good life or you take addictive drugs, it may be difficult to recognize the right source between other thoughts/feelings. If so, put your life into order, as then it is much easier to get the answers, because they are not lost in other shit.
If you don't get (or rather are not able to hear) the answers, act in the best way and look for positive or negative feedback. Everything in your life can tell you if you are behaving in good or bad way. Especially if there it is something you don't like. It may seem to be strange having a car accident and putting it into relation with abuse of addictive drug or any bad action you did days or months back, but imho having negative experience in ones life and not being able to get the reason is a waste of the most valuable information one can get. People should be thankful for bad things they experience, but firstly they have to understand why they happened.

And get ready for unpleasant experiences. Healing doesn't mean you will experience positive pleasant journeys. Maybe sometimes, but mostly not. What is important is the feeling at the end of the experience and the days/weeks after. This is the feedback telling you what is really happening. What you saw or felt is not important. What is important is the change that happened deeply inside us.

Thank you, it's posts like yours that made me want to try psychedelics in the first place. I know what you're saying and clearly, it comes from a place of hard work and deep experience.

Pleasure my friend, it took me 20 years to realize what are the right tools and what is just shit pretending to be gold. I was wasting time with other substances, but finally got to the point I found what I was searching for. I owe entheogens a lot, so helping anyone with right intent is a pleasure!

 

[Jees]

...What would you suggest if I was after spiritual answers/solutions etc. (if anything)? Psilocybin, Iboga?...

For some strange reason psilo and me did not co-ax ideally, so far.
Iboga I did not so far.
So I can't really say much about those.

To be able to reflect your mind in ways that it works differently than normal, I think that these kind of perspective shifts loosen up a stagnated patterns of thinking/feeling. This is perhaps a mere practical definition of "healing" or one of it's forms. Soul yoga of sorts.

I think the answer is not literally "there" to find. But I think even more that switching between points of tuning leads to a plasticity, an ability to come out of a corner. Healing trough simple dynamics, by movement between the states of being, by not stagnating any more in one position of mind/emotion/feeling/...

If you ask me which one is a good tool, not everyone share same soul mechanics, anyway my all time favourite is mesc for that kind of job so I echo pete666 here. Enough to get the hues and still being able to function. That state is a long lasting perspective shift with a lot of mind activity remaining to observe close, deep and long in how different the world and existing has become and not necessarily visually. Enough mind to deeply absorb the relativity of the sober world, and in one go the relativity of hardened patterns in that sober world.

What would you like most:
1- winning the struggle of your trouble/problems, a never ending process;
2- or gaining ability to have no problems with having a problem.

I think using entheogens to obtain literal answers is mostly like 1-
Note that 2- does not prevent finding an answer along the way as it comes, and since the pressure is off that might happen more spontaneously. Note also that if entheogens introduce more questions than before route 2- is your friend

My 2 cents.

 

[Orion]

It does sound like you had a similar experience to some of mine where I simply paced out those dose too much or just didn't get enough. The awareness of images and patterns being generated and the ability to question or be doubtful of the depth of your current experience does become impossible once you get enough in a short enough time. You won't be thinking 'meh this is cool but I expected something a little deeper', instead you'll be going 'THIS IS INSAAAAAANE! WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-' or 'I think I just drank the universe' or similar.

Also I wouldn't expect any straightforward answers. They sometimes come but it's rare and often they answer questions you didn't even ask. It's more like psychedelic zen rather than a Q&A with the divine.

 

[AikyO]

I don't think the short duration takes anything from the healing proprieties. The integration process can still take long (your whole life?) and you can see then blossom sparkles and stardust. Not everything has to be in the face, it can be in the periphery and will demand you to give a careful ear.

Spîce is its own language, you have to get used to it a bit too. If you get to a foreign country, you don't understand a thing: it's beyond language, another type of language. This language might be more vague and might demand you to put more faith and trust in how you interpret things, how to follow your intuition, an maybe that is part of the healing.

What are fractals? What is the mind?

I am boggled by people telling me it is their unconscious. It surely is, but what is this unconscious you speak of? What does this tiny word expresses? Does it stand in front of the magnitude of the experience? Try telling me about your mind and fractals on a breakthrough dose( You can't? :twisted: )

Spîce has taught me how to learn more efficiently. To understand heavy download of information beyond pure feeling, I reduce them to more rational ideas spawning from core symbol that I often then express in more diverse sentences but will remember by just linking it all to one word, which is an anchor for my memory.

Tiny sentences often now come flourish on top of my waking life and I can have them as mantras for the time needed.

You have to translate. You saw entities? How can you translate feeling entities in real life? How could it be a tool for transformation or greater awareness, more empathy?

For me it was seeing each of my mental process has having its own life and this helped me to discuss with them and understand ourselves better. I have many selves within me, many entities.

When I see a tree I see the same kind of action I see in hyperspace: they are offering me things, dancing before my eyes, doing all sort of funky things.

Then I get back to the city: same. All panels and advertising, the city itself, all are entities trying to communicate something to me.

Looking them as alive phenomenons, lifeforms of their own, I don't shut myself from them, I share my identity with them and somehow I am able to see them more clearly, what lies beyond them more succinctly.

...

I don't know what entities are - I don't really care, I think it's really cool and soothing to see them in different lights and through different lenses - but I translated the experience. I don't know but it has helped me in some ways still. I have had experience on the fringe of reality, stretching my subjectivity to its most absolute potential, and I learned something from it.

My imagination is alive and surely more me than I will ever be.

 

[mishka78]

Using the plant teachers as a medicine is not an one shot strategy. We need to work with them, to accept all they are giving us, integrate the experience and be grateful for whatever we get. Not everything important is happening in our conscious mind. There may be (and are) some very important processes behind what we see, but there usually is some feeling telling us something is happening. Again, this feeling is weak, but after some practice it is not a problem to identify it.

...

And get ready for unpleasant experiences. Healing doesn't mean you will experience positive pleasant journeys. Maybe sometimes, but mostly not. What is important is the feeling at the end of the experience and the days/weeks after. This is the feedback telling you what is really happening. What you saw or felt is not important. What is important is the change that happened deeply inside us.

I think you said this incredibly well and it deserves repeating. Catharsis can be quite intense whatever the catalyst may be.

 

[Jees]

Very nice to see how people make it work for them instead of just expecting it to serve.

Aiky0 I agree a short deep experience has healing potential too, or better said: could be made working for a person too, so it becomes an asset. The difference with longer ones is that in a longer session, there is more time to familiarize with the new perspective and more time to possibly view personal problems (thinking of OP here) from out of the new perspective. Is that better? I think people have to find what suits them best, we all differ and we're blessed with options.

I do mainly the same thing as you: the abilities learned to sail the entheogen waves are of practical use in daily life situations, if one has an eye for it.

 

[CrimsonElf]

I dont't have any experience with ibogaine. I just think it is too heavy for "normal" healing. It is difficult to acquire and the experience seems to be quite rough. Maybe good for heroin or alcohol addiction, but I hope it is not your case.

Thankfully, I don't have that. It's a medical problem I can't get past but feels spiritual in nature.

In my experience, mushrooms have helped me alot, but I don't feel I might use them regularly. They are quite psychedelic and my feeling is I may use them once or twice a year, not more often. If used properly, they are really magic and can help with problems though.

I tried it once but it must have been fake because nothing happened. I'm really interested though.

Mescaline. Yes, this is the medicine. Honestly, if I could suggest, I would suggest exactly this kind of healing.

I've just been looking this up and I didn't realize it was Peyote. It does actually sound fascinating. Interesting that Carl Jung took it before writing one of his books as I'm a big fan.

Some other snippets I found interesting from an initial look:

Most users find mescaline personally or spiritually transformative, at least for the time that they’re on it. Some emerge with a lasting appreciation for the interconnectedness of all life in the universe, and of their role within it.

In the 1950s and 60s, mescaline was investigated for its psychotherapeutic potential, particularly in combination with LSD. It was found by some researchers that benefits were correlated with subjects’ willingness to engage with the experience, to face themselves and to act upon the insights received. Interestingly, some of the most significant transformations or breakthroughs came about months after the experience itself, even if the initial psychedelic therapy session seemed to be a failure. Benefits reported include a greater sense of wellbeing, inner strength, and vitality

In line with Native American ritual use of peyote, mescaline can apparently help users overcome specific problems. In one study, a group of 27 men were administered the drug and asked to think about a problem they were facing at work, some of which had persisted for months. Following this single dose of mescaline, almost every participant either solved the problem for themselves or came up with new ways to approach it.

when I tried to use lsd as a medicine for healing, I got very strong answer this is not the right way.

It's funny but this is the exact feeling I got with DMT.

I wouldn't use MDMA for healing... It has higher addiction potential

I had no idea about this, it does make sense though, it was definitely the one I was the most drawn to back in the day.

Try to treat your mind as an independent intelligent source of information and try to ask it for help... having negative experience in ones life and not being able to get the reason is a waste of the most valuable information one can get.

Thank you for explaining. This is actually what's most frustrating for me because I think I've well and truly learned the lesson but the problem persists. I'm going to try this, thank you again.

 

[CrimsonElf]

...switching between points of tuning leads to a plasticity, an ability to come out of a corner. Healing trough simple dynamics, by movement between the states of being, by not stagnating any more in one position of mind/emotion/feeling/...

If you ask me which one is a good tool, not everyone share same soul mechanics, anyway my all time favourite is mesc for that kind of job so I echo pete666 here.

That's a fascinating definition of healing. It's hard trying to talk about these things as it's so experience-based like you've either lived it and get it or you don't. Amazing description, I'll definitely think about that more going forward.

Also very interesting that you echoed pete666 on mesc for this job.

What would you like most:
1- winning the struggle of your trouble/problems, a never ending process;
2- or gaining ability to have no problems with having a problem.

I think using entheogens to obtain literal answers is mostly like 1-
Note that 2- does not prevent finding an answer along the way as it comes, and since the pressure is off that might happen more spontaneously. Note also that if entheogens introduce more questions than before route 2- is your friend

I know exactly what you mean and see the truth in what you're saying. I know the 'right' answer is 2, I remember an Indian sage saying that life keeps throwing you problems until you are no longer affected by them. And it's ironic, as you say, that 2 is probably more likely to get it solved in the long run anyway. It's just that, for this one thing, my heart says 1. If it was literally anything else I would say 2 but it's such a crucial step in the chain of what I want from my life that I just can't seem to let it go. Perhaps I will have to one day and maybe this process will help but at least I gave you an honest answer here .

PS. I just read your disclaimer after all that now and it really made me laugh.

Also, Orion, likewise your post made me belly laugh. I think you're all giving me a similar message and I'll try to take it on board. You guys have very succinct, unique, and funny ways of describing things!

 

[CrimsonElf]

Try telling me about your mind and fractals on a breakthrough dose( You can't? :twisted: )

Hahahaha ... I'm keen for this!

Spîce has taught me how to learn more efficiently. To understand heavy download of information beyond pure feeling, I reduce them to more rational ideas spawning from core symbol that I often then express in more diverse sentences but will remember by just linking it all to one word, which is an anchor for my memory.

Tiny sentences often now come flourish on top of my waking life and I can have them as mantras for the time needed.

That method of learning/remembering is really interesting. I think that's the way the mind actually works, as a neural network, so to actually cognitively understand, remember and learn in this manner must be a very flowing and satisfying feeling. It reminds me of something I heard recently that when communicating an idea, it should link to a symbol/meme which should link to a longer paragraph which should link to a full-blown paper/explanation, so that you can express it at whatever level is needed but the whole depth is always there to be explored.

For me it was seeing each of my mental process has having its own life and this helped me to discuss with them and understand ourselves better. I have many selves within me, many entities.

Hahaha ... this really made me laugh imagining this. You all have such cool ways of describing stuff.

My imagination is alive and surely more me than I will ever be.

Thanks for your post, your words feel really authentic.

 

[Jees]

...PS. I just read your disclaimer after all that now and it really made me laugh...

I haven't seen signatures in ages, I guess they were turned off.
Was mine still on?
Well eh, not all of my posts are fiction.

Anyway cool to come back with replies

About that 1 thing needing a real answer: it is possible to get a frontal answer, I even had an answer to why I exist while I hadn't even asked for it. Bam there you go, right in one of my most horrifying experiences, what a bully of a cherry on that awful cake :lol: . Weird. I was miss pleased actually with that answer and I was certainly not happy with it for a very long time. Years later now, I did not reject that answer but could place it in a much wider context where it got lost it's aggravation. Now that was maybe my true lesson: that contexts can change everything (figurative).

So my idea now is that yes straight answer is possible (no guarantee!) yet prolly boiling up from within and seeing the chance to face you. Hidden stuff showing, inside there's a well or a connection of sorts, a place where in-and-outside overlap? Entheogens opening that box. But for me that was more a unique happening over several years.

It's fascinating stuff to say the least.

 

[null24]

Well OP, no, we are not all victims of a placebo effect. There is definitely more to it. What that is, nobody is really sure.

I have a theory based on my experiences with n,n DMT- that it has absolutely nothing to do with "me" except on an intrinsic level. That is, the experience is not relevant to my memories, my ideas, my self. It seems to come from some place of universal-consciousness. That is, it seems objective, originating from somewhere within deep shared human consciousness. Or scrap the human part, as salvia seems to be connected with awareness-consciousness untethered (2-D reality) DMT seems connected to sapient consciousness, not necessarily human. Therefore I'm not going to receive any insight into my personal psyche or find solutions to my complex "roadblocks". This is a realm to only peek into. It'll shake you up, not settle you.

However, with that said i prepare to hypocriticize myself. I have found it to be a wonderful catalyst for, in my case, addiction/mental health recovery in that it revealed to me through an experience that i am intrinsically connected to a source that it much greater than the self i claim to be me, thereby giving me a concrete example of what to live for.

Which, by the way, is nothing but being here, now.

 

[○]

Yeah, sandwich can take some trial and error, and tea leaves really aren't the best thing to use in sandwiching fb dmt. If you initially put 25mg in there, lit up, you more than likely burned a bit of it. That's just how it can be with that method.

Speed of the inhale as you're drawing in the hits can matter a whole lot too in being sure that you don't burn too much of it. I usually would pack in quite a bit more than 25mg for sandwich, like 40-50mg, because chances are, even with what I think to be a sound method ..I could still be burning some of it as that cherry is traveling downward.

No wonder the experience was sub par given what you said there. Pipe volume matters too.

And 4 hits is alot, especially if not taken quickly or in s short time frame ime. More times than not it'll be sub par. No surprise really.

Tbh, in all the years i've worked with it, if you want to go deep with the stuff, then you need to get a really sufficient dosage, don't be afraid, and get that sufficient dosage as QUICKLY as you can, ..it really comes down to the time frame as soon as that first inhale starts. The clocks ticking more times than not from that point - as far as the intensity and depth goes.

The original vg [wooden] is alright, it can do the trick. It's not like the glass VG though, the glass VG has a much better volume size for the vapor, you can see it, and drawing in the vapor is effortless. Plus the draw hole on the wooden class vg ...its not like the glass vg, it's different. The glass VG is superior ime. Also with using the glass vg, it's a very superior method to reliably not burn it in any way. You'll get the dosage you put in there 9/10, no funny business ime.

If you don't want to spend much, get a 1ft or so acrylic/glass bong, do the sandwich method, load 40-50mg in there, and go for it.

You will KNOW when you get it 'on the money', ..lol ..you will know. Everything else can seem 'much less than expected' for some ppl. There's a very ...very distinct difference when you get it right. Make no mistake there.

Hope this helps though.

Not sure about answers. For me personally, I think those heavy experiences really made me stop and think what it was that I was actually plunging myself into.. It is no joke when you get it right my friend.

Peace