DMT absorption via DMSO

[romiir]

Has anyone ever tried using DMT via DMSO? I noticed an experience report on erowid that said it was ineffective, however in a recent experiment conducted by a friend, there was a report of success.

The method to success was a mix of DMT freebase and DMT fumerate with 7 parts DMSO and 1 part ethanol. The solution was saturated with freebase and with the fumerate salt. Just enough solution was used to dissolve the desired dose and the solution was then rubbed on the breast/front torso area of the test subject. An immediate effect (within 3 minutes) was observed with a duration slightly longer then that of smoked dmt. (likely due to the slower rate of absorption)

DMSO has a unique property of being able to dissolve polar and non polar compounds, I am wondering if the freebase and fumerate combination with the ethanol avaliablity binder was key to this success. I would love to hear others thoughts on this experiment.

It should be noted that pure dmso is not as effective as slightly diluted solution and that is why the ethanol was used, due to its excellent solvency characteristics and low toxicity.

Slight skin irritation was observed, however the subject was completely back to baseline within one hour, with no more skin irritation. The subject described the affected skin to feel as if it was being bit by a mosquito. (A typical histamine reaction)

(DMSO is Dimethyl sulfoxide, it is a solvent which is non-toxic and has a distinctive property of penetrating the skin very readily while carrying other things with it. See wikipedia for more information about DMSO or google Dr. Stanley Jacob.)

 

[benzyme]

yes, it's a very old-school method of drug delivery.
works well for transmembrane delivery in plant cells too (i.e. nutrient delivery). it's often used in cell bio research labs.

it should also be noted that DMSO will also take toxins with it into the bloodstream. make sure everything is immaculate before messing with this method

 

[69ron]

I have DMSO. It's not nearly as effective as people claim. It's pretty worthless. It doesn't work for ANYTHING I've tried with it. Not a single thing! I've tried it with everything I have.

SWIM has tried it with bufotenine: doesn't work.
SWIM has tried it with DMT: doesn't work.
SWIM has tried it with 5-MeO-DMT: doesn't work.
SWIM has tried it with LSD: doesn't work.
SWIM has tried it with Mescaline: doesn't work.
SWIM has tried it with Psilocin: doesn't work.

It doesn't work!!! It’s a advertising gimmick we’ve all fallen for! It's a waste of money.

The only thing its really good for is a solvent for storing things in. That's about it.

There are a few things it might work for, but I’ve never come across anything it works for EVER. So if you find anything at all that it actually really works with PLEASE POST ABOUT IT!

 

[romiir]

Well as stated above. I confirm it is possible to use DMSO for administration of DMT. Now rather or not it is good for you, better then smoking it, or an easier preparation, I'd have to say no on all accounts. However if you are in an environment where you can't risk the smell of DMT in the air. I'd say DMSO is a viable option and the preparation described above does work.

I have read many reports of it not being successful, but no one went through the preparation I described above...

Keep in mind DMSO is less effective in high concentrations and should be slightly diluted, and keep in mind its solvency characteristics. You can saturate it with polar and nonpolar material.

The individual this was tested on has an abnormally low tolerance for DMT however. I will have my friend arrange another experiment with a regular user to see if the same result can be achieved. I will post my findings here.

 

[69ron]

Having tried it with many things to find it doesn't work at all, I am immediately very skeptical. Many others on this forum also tried it with DMT to find it didn't work. So you're making claims that are difficult to believe. Are you sure it was not placebo?

 

[69ron]

This test, if it works, is easily reproduced by others on this forum.

Assuming it was NOT placebo, how much DMT (1 gram, 10 grams?), DMSO, and ethanol was required for real effects?

 

[romiir]

I initially was very doubtful as well. I read many reports that it was inactive. I even read a report that LSD dissolved in DMSO should have killed a lab assistant, but due to DMSO it wasn't even absorbed!!! It was wiped off rather quickly, but with STRONG LSD solutions this is not something to play around with. It just doesn't sound like a viable carrier... Also typical skin absorption for patches is just a few mg, I too figured it would be quite hard to absorb the approx 50mg of DMT required for a trip, however it seems that it may be possible. I have some preliminary hypotheses about which area of the skin absorbed the most of the product, but a few more tests will need to be performed before I post my findings.

It wasn't a double blind study. However I don't believe it was placebo. Breakthrough was achieved multiple times on the same subject. I will see that the same experiment is attempted on another subject soon. It is hard to do a double blind test of this since DMSO is very easy to tell apart from anything else... I guess my friend can use DMSO with yellow food coloring as placebo. I'll post my findings.

It also should be noted that a large area of skin was used for the test. Pretty much the entire front torso of the female subject.

The subject had been exposed to the substance 2 times previously and confirmed that it definitely felt like DMT. The subject experienced a state of disconnection from her current reality for a number of minutes. Trip report inclusive.

I'll have them run the test again on a male subject and post my findings.

 

[69ron]

So it was a 50 mg dose of DMT used?

 

[romiir]

This test, if it works, is easily reproduced by others on this forum.

Assuming it was NOT placebo, how much DMT (1 gram, 10 grams?), DMSO, and ethanol was required for real effects?

The DMSO/ethanol solution was not very much, about 7 eyedroppers full of DMSO and 1 of ethanol was used. I'd estimate the DMT to be something like 50mg freebase and 75 mg dmt fumarate.

Exact measurements were not performed in the initial test. In the future tests I will have the amounts precisely weighed.

In the initial test the solution wasn't even heated, which would allow more material to be dissolved.

Oh, almost forgot, additional data that shouldn't matter:
The solution was first saturated with freebase, then saturated with the fumarate salt.

The DMSO was pharmaceutical grade 99.999% purity and the DMT freebase and fumarate were also of pharmaceutical purity. ~99.99%
The ethanol was 190 proof everclear. Not lab ethanol. Easy to procure.

 

[69ron]

With all the tests SWIM did using DMT in DMSO, he gave up on it.

If this can work using the method you outlined then this is a great alternative to smoking. SWIM does NOT like smoking DMT at all and instead uses Virola calophylla resin sublingually (with 6% lime), or he uses DMT in the form of pharmahuasca. He pretty much never smokes DMT anymore. He doesn’t like the quick onset and short duration of smoking it and also doesn’t like the act of smoking either.

DMSO has proven to be a waste of money for SWIM. He has a bunch of it collecting dust. If this new method can work, then SWIM has a new use for his DMSO. That would be great, except for the garlic smell.

 

[69ron]

The DMSO was pharmaceutical grade 99.999% purity and the DMT freebase and fumarate were also of pharmaceutical purity. ~99.99%
The ethanol was 190 proof everclear. Not lab ethanol. Easy to procure.

SWIM has all of that except the ethanol. He can't get 95% ethanol where he lives. It’s illegal without a license. He'd have to make the ethanol himself.

 

[romiir]

The DMSO was pharmaceutical grade 99.999% purity and the DMT freebase and fumarate were also of pharmaceutical purity. ~99.99%
The ethanol was 190 proof everclear. Not lab ethanol. Easy to procure.

SWIM has all of that except the ethanol. He can't get 95% ethanol where he lives. It’s illegal without a license.

Setup a pot still. Google homedistiller. Grab some cane sugar from the local market, some yeast, and you have water on hand I assume. Although distilled water would be best, but guess what, once you built your pot still you can even distill your own water!

IMHO I don't think the purity of the ethanol matters at all, you could probably cut the DMSO with water and it would be fine, however this is still untested, if you would like, I can see if the purity of alcohol effects the test as well. SWIM can easily make alcohol of any purity. (Up to 95%)

Ethanol was used just because it was easily avaliable, and SWIM read a research paper about DMSO tropical use, ethanol keeps things sterile and dissolves the material we want quite well.

 

[69ron]

SWIM has no problem making the 95% ethanol. That’s a simple thing to do if it's needed. He just has to buy some vodka and distill it. With his long distillation column it'll come out very pure the first run. It’s a little time consuming but easily done.

 

[romiir]

SWIM has no problem making the 95% ethanol. That’s a simple thing to do if it's needed. He just has to buy some vodka and distill it. It’s a little time consuming but easily done.

=)

I don't think I have to tell you this 69ron, however this goes to everyone: If you try this, please post your findings! Good or bad! More information is good information.

SWIM and friends will try to figure out exactly what is required for success, and if it is possible in individuals with a normal tolerance to spice.

The preliminary hint I was hinting at earlier, which seems to be a step in the right direction is oddly enough nipples. Rub this solution on your nipples the most, but then also cover a large surface area of your torso with it.

Do keep in mind it will cause a bit of skin irritation, but its not really bad. It feels similar to when you notice a mosquito bite and it begins to itch. All irritation is gone within an hour.

Happy travels adventurers! Best of luck!

 

[Fable]

I tried something similar with emu oil some time ago. Although it was probably more like 100 to 200mg, I covered my entire chest and went to bed and didn't notice a thing other than feeling a bit sticky. No skin irritation or anything and I was under the impression that emu oil was as effective if not more so than DMSO.
In fact I am experimenting on myself right now. I had some orange oil left over from recrystallization and added 3 generous drops of it to 3 drops of emu oil. Time to retire with a good book and see what happens.
Added to fore arms, neck, backs of knees and nipples.:d

 

[Infundibulum]

SWIM has also tried DMSO with freebase dmt with nor results whatsoever. He tried 200mg dissolved in minimal amount of DMSO and spread on the ventral part of his left hand.

We need more information on the issue - romiir said it there was both fumarate and freebase used as well as ethanol in the ointment. Romiir, what was the rationale of using the said mixture and not starting from the simplest (e.g. freebase and dmso only?)

If the report is real SWIM'd like to see more details, especially with regard to the experience; was it like insufflated dmt?was it like pharma? was it like smoked dmt?

Also, could it be that ethanol in the preparation of the ointment increased vasodilation locally? Could it be that the chest area absorbs faster? There are plenty of parameters involved and SWIM would not dismiss the possibility of a "right" way to use dmso to deliver dmt.

Note that dmso administration is closer to a subcutaneous injection than intramuscular or intravenous. Has anyone ever heard of subcutaneous dmt injection?

 

[Fable]

Well my nipples are sore, I should have avoided my piercing, and my arms are red at the elbow joint, my neck is fine.
There was a very mild feeling like nervous anticipation and it was gone after 40 minutes.
It is my feeling that this could work but only with prior MAO inhibition.
If only I had some THH I would try this later on today.

 

[Infundibulum]

Well my nipples are sore, I should have avoided my piercing, and my arms are red at the elbow joint, my neck is fine.
There was a very mild feeling like nervous anticipation and it was gone after 40 minutes.
It is my feeling that this could work but only with prior MAO inhibition.
If only I had some THH I would try this later on today.

SWIM has also tried the DMSO thing with oral MAOI. It didn't really work.

 

[69ron]

I saw one report of DMSO working with DMT for sublingual use. In that report they stated that 10 mg of DMT produced "white out". SWIM tried quite a lot with that method, and still nothing but a very slight feeling of "something" that could have been placebo. He tried it with both freebase and DMT fumarate, and neither worked. But he didn't use ethanol.

 

[romiir]

Ok, first of all, SWIM haven't had a chance to setup another experiment yet, but SWIM will, I promise!

Romiir, what was the rationale of using the said mixture and not starting from the simplest (e.g. freebase and dmso only?)

If the report is real SWIM'd like to see more details, especially with regard to the experience; was it like insufflated dmt?was it like pharma? was it like smoked dmt?

To answer more questions.. Well, he did a lot of research and read a lot of whitepapers about DMSO, and he saw the reports around the internet saying it doesn't work. His question was, why not? It seems like it should work.. Perhaps the rate of absorption is to slow? That is the only possibility really since it definitely is absorbed into the skin... So he researched all the variables for the quickest absorption with the highest throughput. DMSO has polar and nonpolar solvent properties. So SWIM figured it would be wise to use both ends of the stick so to speak, and dissolve the salt and freebase form of the stuff to the point of duel saturation. SWIM also read in multiple whitepapers that DMSO alone is not as effective as slightly diluted DMSO for some reason. They recommend cutting it slightly, thats why ethanol was added. If you would like I can get his references.

More results to come in a few days! It is unfortunate SWIM is unable to test this right now due to 5HT2 downregulation.