• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

DMT and crack

Migrated topic.
lorentz5

lorentz5

Rising Star
Title get your attention?

Welcome, take a step inside my friend's personality... He has a little dilemma.

On one side lie DMT, LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, a progressive quest for improvement and "enlightenment" or whatever you want to call it, global awareness, aesthetic appreciation of beauty in art, music, science, a quest to scrutinize ethics, act morally, and iron out imperfections

On the other side lie drugs like booze, crack, meth, heroin, and animalistic desires to engage in depraved acts, violent or sexual, hedonistic, moral or immoral, devoid of rules and full of chaos. My friend has been using these substances for a about two years and lives a fairly productive life but has found they CANNOT coexist with psychedelics.

The latter category have no value to him in terms of progress. They just give a good time, but they only subtract, not add. There is no "I love! I love! I love!" when he smokes some rocks or shoots some dope. It's just physical, like fucking a whore compared to making love to a beautiful, meaningful woman.

My friend always flunctuates between these two states and it frustrates the HELL out of him because he can never stick to his resolutions. Psych's will keep him off the hard shit for maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe a month, or even a couple months, keeping him in that blissfully aware state of mind. Then he relapses. And when he does, he has no desire for psychedelics.

And this has been repeating itself over and over for a very long time. Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. My friend doesn't want to be insane any longer.

My friend finds it hard to say no to these harder drugs because he is in excellent physical, financial, and social shape, so he always justifies using as no big deal. He almost always regrets it later, and when he trips, his hard drug use ALWAYS comes under scrutiny, and often ruins the trip.

To clarify, my friend has gone through some addictive phases in his life, but none really fucked up his life very much except for meth. He's almost always been able to quit when he wanted to, but always came back in a couple weeks/months. He wants to quit using these harder drugs COMPLETELY and for LIFE, and he doesn't want to do psychedelics every 2 days to keep him in that positive state, he wants to do it himself.

Where can he start?
 
Have told him, he's done a fair bit of reading on the subject, including the nice juicy comprehensive torrent someone posted on this forum. In the videos where they treat the heroin addicts, the narrators clearly state the treatment is almost useless and only temporary unless supplemented with some sort of follow-up or plan for their lives.

What can iboga offer that other psychedelics can't for my friend? I see it as another intense experience that will make my friend burst into tears of regret as his ego is raped by relentless spirits, as he fervently promises to everything that exists that he will never touch those things again (while puking). Those patients under the influence of iboga seemed to be very much suffering and in pain. I don't mean to downplay the potential of iboga, just how will this make a lasting difference? How will it be different from the hundreds of other psychedelic trips?

I do not discredit your suggestion. What sort of supplementation accompany iboga treatment? Is there research done on this?
 
lorentz5 said:
Have told him, he's done a fair bit of reading on the subject, including the nice juicy comprehensive torrent someone posted on this forum. In the videos where they treat the heroin addicts, the narrators clearly state the treatment is almost useless and only temporary unless supplemented with some sort of follow-up or plan for their lives.

What can iboga offer that other psychedelics can't for my friend? I see it as another intense experience that will make my friend burst into tears of regret as his ego is raped by relentless spirits, as he fervently promises to everything that exists that he will never touch those things again (while puking). Those patients under the influence of iboga seemed to be very much suffering and in pain. I don't mean to downplay the potential of iboga, just how will this make a lasting difference? How will it be different from the hundreds of other psychedelic trips?

I do not discredit your suggestion. What sort of supplementation accompany iboga treatment? Is there research done on this?
Click to expand...

Well, your friend clearly also need a psychotherapy so maybe he would benefit from a treatment in an iboga clinic which includes follow-ups with a psychotherapist.
 
:lol: Be alive and be well, my dearest fellow friend... Hope You´ll pack Your things together and survive all the chemical crap common society can offer You. Hmm, fucking a whore, yummy... :p... :lol:
 
Ok, well as guy with a working life who's studying at the same time, an intervention to travel inconspicuously to S.A. or wherever and spend a month and lots of money at an ibogaine clinic or a psychotherapist is not realistic. He also doesn't belong in a room with junkies or tweakers or crackheads; he is nothing like them. This is not a life or death issue like it is for them, but instead a very serious bother, a conflict of interest in his mind. He doesn't even have a particular substance that he addicted to, and some substances he is content with using forever.

Perhaps he will do an iboga extraction and read into some 12step lit, he doesn't know...
 
He keeps going back to these things even though his sober self does not want to use them, they make him frustrated and unhappy, he rationalizes using them because he doesn't see the damage that it does even though "they only subtract, not add"...

Maybe he is not actively dying from liver failure but to say that he is nothing like other addicts?
Click to expand...

The point being his life is not in ruins and he has much more control and ability to resist/limit usage than MOST people. Not to say he is fully in control, that would be naive, but one would agree he is not Harry from Requiem for a Dream.
 
One doesn't need to wait until one's life is in ruins to go about fixing it. There is no stigma attached to pulling the rip chord (except in the minds of the ignorant). Sister has pulled the rip chord on her addictions several times in this lifetime, usually starting with a trip to detox and then on to some other form of treatment, be it inpatient rehab as suggested above, outpatient peer groups or even NA.

Each time Sister pulled the rip chord, it was based on the realization that her life (psyche) had become completely contaminated by drugs she wished she could stop using, synthesizing, and thinking or obsessing about. Each time it entailed making some very difficult choices and decisions as well as lifestyle and social changes. Into the abyss created by her abstinence she threw such things as yoga, meditation, hanging out with people not obsessed with or even using drugs (You'll find plenty of people like that in yoga circles).

Sometimes these hiatuses lasted years, sometimes months. But every time she returned she had more control and less obsession than previously, never allowing things to progress as far or get as bad as they had previously. She also became more astute at recognizing the signs that things were out of control. These days she is able to partake moderately, without obsession and her drug use co-exists comfortably with some of her more spiritual pursuits. But in each case she had to come to a full stop, before she was able to reorient herself. She may have to stop yet again one day.

If you aren't up to a full stop, perhaps adding something to your life that is uplifting might help, like a regular (3x/week) yoga practice. You'll meet some healthy people, living healthy lifestyles, you'll have at least three hours a week when your mind is occupied by something other than that you wish you could forego and you will feel better for having taken some action. Through yoga and meditation you can also come by many
of the same realizations that are available through the use of psychedelics. The hatha based yoga systems are fine, but kundalini yoga is where the change really happens.

Light and blessings!
 
Well the best way to quit using drugs is to just stop using the drugs you don't like. If your not physically addicted that makes things a lot easier. Using other drugs to make you want to use the other drugs less usually doesn't work unless you have the will to quit in the first place.

If you find it difficult to say no ask yourself what situations expose you to the drugs you don't want to continue using? Is it a particular group of friends who always exposes you to harder stuff? Or do you seek the substances out yourself.

My advise is the just take responsibility for your actions. If you really don't want to quit then don't guilt trip yourself every time you use. If you really want to quit then just quit. It sounds easier then it is of course but really it is that simple.
 
You've made some progress already. You've realized that those drugs don't get you anywhere. That's good. It sounds like you are nearly done with them. From what I know about amphetamines, they end up taking you to very ugly places if taken too often. And of course shooting any drug regularly is a game of diminishing returns. I do think amphetamines can be an effective tools, but they are like power tools, you have to be extremely careful with them. Opiates have their place. They are regularly demonized (even on this forum, which is surprising to me) but they are also very useful. Medically of course, and as a tool for relief of mental distress. Unfortunately they are super addictive for a small percentage of people who try them. That fact combined with prohibition and high prices bolstered by a thriving black market make them practically useless in the long run. You end up nowhere. I hear a lot of people on here talk about "plant teachers" and then spit on the opium poppy, and the coca leaf. Same with alcohol. Far more dangerous than heroin, of course, but it can be useful. I use it to clean glassware :)
All that being said, I have a belief, formed from my past experiences, that there is a hierarchy in the drug world. The drugs that cause you and so many others are lower in that hierarchy. I grew out of them. You may be in the process of doing that. I also used the baser drugs occasionally, thinking I could get away with it and not get caught in a snare. I was wrong. I fell fast and hard.
My advice: stop beating yourself up for enjoying drugs. Humans enjoy being altered. The sit and spin toy has been in constant production for many years. That's the gateway drug. Stop beating yourself up and try sincerely to let those drugs go. Before you even buy heroin or coke or alcohol or meth, fast forward in your head to the aftermath. Maybe that will be a disincentive. Maybe not. Maybe I'm full of shit.
Good luck.
 
Ive never touched alcohol so thats uncharted territory but Ive used meth, crack and numerous opioids.The stimulants were pleasant enough but fortunately (or unfortunately?) I much preferred the sedation that opiates bring.The freebase cocaine and meth just were not my cup of tea.

In regards to opiates, they are so seductive and one develops a psychological addiction to them which occurs imperceptibly and alot sooner than the full physical addiction which takes hold with all the misery that comes along with this state.You have a shit day and the opiates take the stress away;youve had a good productive day and the opiates make a nice treat.Opiates are in the mind of the user who has come to appreciate their effects the ultimate all-purpose substance for all occasions.This stae can remain even when you are physically addicted but doesnt last.

When you are only psychologically addicted and you are not using daily and still hold it together without turning into a shivering goose-pimpley thing you are alot closer to the state of physical addiction than you can possibly imagine.A minority of users can maintain this state for years if they restrict their use to no more than every 4 days and in someways have the 'best' of both worlds.But familiarity breeds a kind of recklessness whereby the user uses more frequently than this and one day they awake with a nose full of snot and a sense of something missing which provokes a feeling of anxiety which can only be quelled by a hit.

Opiates can defeat the strongest of individuals and has them thinking ruefully 'Im sure the pit I dug for myself wasnt this deep'.Its always easier to run down a hill than up and every step down taken without realising will require more effort to climb up leaving you a wheezy breathless mess.

For some people the only way to stay off opiates is as a result of such a horrendous withdrawal that they would never screw-up in such a way again.This does presuppose that they have what it takes to overcome the physical anguish of withdrawal which is bloody hard;the real battle begins after those first 4-7 days when the emptiness and sense of being adrift becomes too much to bear and many do relapse.Infact, as most of those who had opiate habits would agree, the physical withdrawal can be done numerous times before the hapless addict wises up and does what is needed-and this is to change ones life in a profound and comprehensive way for good.

The OPs friend may not have lost his wealth, reputation and liberty yet but it sounds like he is perhaps closer to some kind of disaster than seems apparent to him.
 
It's funny, some of the same things I see in all sorts of people's explanations of themselves and their addictions. Gee, I use drugs that I wish I didn't, but I am not an addict! I smoke crack and shoot heroin and stuff, but I quit for periods, and I don't steal, so I am not an addict!! Well, there is good and bad in everything, addicts included. So it seems to me, you wouldn't be swinging back and forth between these two distinctions you have made with certain drugs if you didn't have some sort of addiction or problem. Poly-drug addiction is still an addiction, whether you are whoring yourself on the corner for it, or just spending some extra tip money you made being a housekeeper or waiter/waitress. You seem to be searching for something, or lacking something, and using drugs is filling this.

This is where iboga is different from many other psychedelics. Iboga actually starts to go to work on the reward system in your brain that you have altered by using drugs that effect this reward system. Iboga actually can make you take a good hard look at yourself, and can give you a period of time where cravings are non-existent. It can allow you to see yourself, and the paths you are on, or capable of taking. This, which is an extremely long experience, is also coupled with weeks or months of being free from cravings, much of the time. This can allow a person who wants to change, a break, or a new start in creating the life they want for themselves. It doesn't force someone to stop using drugs, but it can give them a chance to break away from the cycle, and start a newer healthy path.

Perhaps that is what you need. Try to go back into your past and take a look at what led you to desire these "harmful" drugs. Maybe iboga can give you the insight as to why you feel the need to use them, and possibly offer you a way to face yourself and problems so that you may begin to heal. Certainly therapy/counseling and iboga are tools, or great things to help you get away from compulsion to use drugs that you have negative experiences with, but to change your life, it takes continued effort to strive to be who you want. Currently you let the draw of these "harmful" drugs pull you in, you cave to temptation and craving, then feel terrible about it. The way to stop this cycle is to quit certain drugs. If you are having trouble with that, perhaps counseling, iboga, meetings, or a combination of these things can help. Which one's really work for you, depend on how hard you try, and how willing you are to give them an honest chance.

I agree with burnt, and I tend to think most people are actually in control of their lives, but they lack the discipline, or they just don't believe they are the one's creating their lives. Iboga can show you how to regain that power, or at least it has for me. It's extremely hard for me to rationalize things that I know are bad for me, and I know, when I do go against my better judgment, it is my fault. Addicts tend to look outside, rather than in. Iboga has helped show me that everything outside of me, is caused by something inside of me. Getting to the root of the internal cause, is how one can heal. Learning to take control of the feelings associated with certain issues or problem can give you more control over the problems. Changing your thinking will change your life.. Good luck!
 
I have been in your friends shoes before. Your friends story is very similar to mine. I did coke and or meth and booze every day for 4 years straight. All the while holding down a great job a marriage and family.

Eventually I quit. I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. Thats what it took.

I am one of the lucky ones. I didnt lose my job or my wife. I never got arrested. I did spend a couple hundred thousand dollars on dope over that 4 years.

I was sick, I was killing myself slowly. I had to hit rock bottom to finally realize.....

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I woke up one day and I just felt sick. There wasnt one thing I could really pinpoint, I just didnt feel good. A sort of impending doom kinda sick. I knew why I was sick.

I just stopped. I'm glad I did. I'm very lucky I did.

I have been sober, with the exception of DMT, Psilocybin, LSD, and Mescalin, now for 751 days + or - a day.

I did use shrooms immediately following my cessation. I took about .5 grams of
ps cyanescens a day for a couple of weeks if my memory serves me right. I didnt trip every day. I just took enough to, to..... take the edge off. It worked like a charm.

Recovery is difficult. It requires a total transformation of your life style. It require support from youre loved ones.

Most importantly it requires a person to be honest with himself and his loved ones about the addiction and making a plan that involves the support of those loved ones. Whatever your friend was hiding about the addiction must be shared with his inner circle. 100% honesty.

DeTox or rehab works for some.

For some people addiction is life or death.

I am happy that I have my life back. Life goes on. I am healthy, financially stable and in love more than ever with my wife. I am extremely fortunate.

I wish your friend the best of luck. The road ahead is not an easy one. But it can be done.
 
Your friend is just going to feel worse and worse until he can't take more suffering. It's up to him to stop.
Having physical health and a good job is fine but what's that worth when your mental health collapses.
When that happens people loose their physical health and their job. And often the family and friends too if they get very sick mentally.

And addiction can take many forms. Not all addicts shoot heroin every day and live on the street.
 
Spock's Brain said:
Rehab?
Click to expand...
This.

Your friend can't do it on his own, he must get treatment for his addictions. And they are addictions. I've been there myself, and I said the same things. To get rid of the addictions, he must stop using any addictive substances (possibly even socially acceptable ones like caffeine and nicotine) and get into treatment or he'll continue to relapse. And after he does that, he must realize that he'll be in treatment the rest of his life. Once you become an addict, you are an addict for life. The temptation of these substances will always be there, he just needs to acquire the tools to keep those temptations at bay.

The truth hurts sometimes, but we must accept it.
 
That addict for life stuff I don't agree with. I was a hardcore addict. I can use hard drugs now, and not immediately return to using without control. I can actually control my use very well. However, I don't have much desire to use them anymore, since I have done so extensively and just got tired and sick of it. I have used an abused loads of hard drugs, including heroin, alcohol, and cocaine, and I can now use them any time I want. I know how to use them and not become addicted. I was addicted hardcore, physically and mentally to opiates and methadone, and I beat them with iboga. I no longer need to take any drug to feel happy, although I sure do like my psychedelics and cannabis. I have quit the cannabis to prove to myself that I could, but it's just not something I want to stop. I have beat cigarettes, too. I still can smoke a cigarette with friends hangin' out at a bar, though. I don't usually get that urge, but it has happened on occasion. I can go to a bar and have a few beers and go home without drinking more often or too much.

But I do think much of what has been said here is true. It seems you are here asking for help, so in some respects you do recognize you have a problem. Now, you may be able to start using other healthy activities to replace the drug use. You may finally be able to just stick to the ones that don't cause you harm. But if you can't, you may need to use other tools. Iboga can help, if it's what you really want. BUT, you may just need to do whatever drug it is you want, enough, until you don't want to anymore. Sometimes you need to hit a bottom before you want to quit. Maybe you just do it so much, you get tired of the way it makes you feel.

It seems you are sort of in control of it since you are not physically dependent on any specific drug. Some ideas that were given were to change friends, and your lifestyle. Remove the situations that are "triggers". Remove yourself from situations that make it easy for you to do these other drugs. Maybe seek counseling, as suggested. And of course, my favorite, iboga treatment. These are all possible tools to help you beat an addiction/unhealthy or unwanted lifestyle. Some people use support groups like NA/AA. I didn't care for their philosophies, but it does work well for some people.

They would like to tell you addiction is a disease that you have for life, and that you will always be fighting the disease, but I can tell you first hand, I do not struggle to stay away from hard drugs. I do not fear using them, however I rarely ever do, or have reason to anymore. I might again use an opiate for severe pain as needed, but I do not desire to get high on them, and it's no problem for me. An addict, by definition, is someone who cannot control their use of something, especially when it is causing them harm, and since I can control my use, or stop altogether, I don't see how I would be considered an addict anymore. The temptation to do heroin or other opioids is not there, the temptation to do cocaine is not there, the temptation to drink alcohol is not there. I do use a fair bit of drugs still, but they are primarily psychedelics and weed, and I may trip a few times a week, or not for a couple months. It causes me no problems in my life, and actually, I believe gives me quite a bit of benefits.

So don't worry, there is hope. You just need to learn to know yourself, and when you do, it becomes easier to take control of yourself. You don't have to be an addict, and you can probably learn to control it. It might take time getting away and learning how to be strong, but I think most people can, if it's what they TRULY want. Deciding that it is what you really want is probably the biggest determining factor. If it's something you really want, most people won't let anything stand in their way, and that is how you hear about people even beating insane physical withdrawal with sheer determination. It's not common, but I think it's possible, when it's what you REALLY want. Luckily there are easier ways, when you finally have decided it is what you want for sure.
 
Back
Top Bottom