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DMT and DMSO??
- Thread starter danknugz81
- Start date
XENONSION said:
1) How much DSMO did you use to disolve the DMT? Th
2) Did you use 99% DMSO or a solution of it?
3) Did the spice completely disolve in the DMSO?
I'm not sure if that makes a difference but it might. I have read about people using DMSO for mushroom extract, mescaline, and DMT. Although there is not a lot of info it appears it IS working for people. I dunno? My friend was interested in trying this out as well. I might pick him up a bottle of the stuff and run my own experiements.
dmt dissolves very easily. A single drop will dissolve 5-10mg. I added just enough to dissolve the dmt fully.acolon_5 said:
I used a diluted solution of about 80%. The literature shows it works much better then 99%.
I think it is just too much substance to pass through the skin. Similar dosage amounts are used for fent and nicotine patches, but those are absorbed over 24-72 hours, not all at once. I think dmso would work better for lower dosage substances.
rbwoodward
Ryan
DMSO will def take organic substances into your body. As a chemist, we are usually pretty careful when we have a compound dissolved in DMSO, as contact with it will put it into your body..most of the time this isnt what we want. If you are getting skin burns from it, you probably still have a significant amount of base around. Also, im not too sure that you want to be bringing the free amine into your blood stream. Would you shoot up the free amine? I wouldn't! The HCl salt, yes, but never ever shoot up a free base substance. These are much less soluble in aqueous (water...BLOOD) solutions and having solids coming out of solution in your circulatory system will cause things similar to the bends, and death.
I saw this comment and crossposted to the Shroomery. enesi (who's trying it over there) immediately asked the same question. This was my answer.
rbwoodward
Ryan
The HCl salt is water soluble, but insoluble in many Non-polar/organic solvents. There are two main ways people use to make things like this into HCl salts.
1. When you have a free base amine, it will dissolve in NP/organic solvents like Toluene, Naptha etc. Once it is dissolved in these solvent, you can precipitate the HCl salt (b/c it is not soluble) by a) bubbling in HCl gas b) adding HCl ether (which is made by bubbling HCl gas into diethyl ether). Making HCl gas doesnt sound trivial for the home chemist, but its not that hard really. You just need HCl (muriatic pool acid) and sulfuric acid. There are things on the internet with details.
2. The home chemist usually takes the free base crystals and mixes them with a minimal amount of aqueous acid like 10% HCl. When I say minimal, I mean as small amount as is required to dissolve the crystals in the water/acid solution. You then will need to evaporate the water. This is why you use as little as is needed, b/c water takes fucking forever to evaporate. You wont see any crystals until all the water has evaporated.
What you are doing is putting a proton (H+) on the amine group, which gives a charge to the molecule. This positive charge is balanced by the negative charge on the Cl ion (from HCl). This gives the crystal structure that is formed ionic character, which means it can be solvated by water molecules and pass through your blood stream easier. You would want to make sure you dont have a large excess of HCl on the crystals of course, b/c HCl tends to burn things on your body.
People make many drugs, which usually have an amine in them, into HCl salts so that they are more water soluble. This makes them snortable, injectable, etc. People usually dont smoke HCl salts, b/c they BURN instead of vaporize. Crack and cocaine is the classic example. Cocaine is the HCl salt version of Crack, which is the freebase version. Same molecule, just one was crystallized under acidic conditions, the other under basic conditions.
1. When you have a free base amine, it will dissolve in NP/organic solvents like Toluene, Naptha etc. Once it is dissolved in these solvent, you can precipitate the HCl salt (b/c it is not soluble) by a) bubbling in HCl gas b) adding HCl ether (which is made by bubbling HCl gas into diethyl ether). Making HCl gas doesnt sound trivial for the home chemist, but its not that hard really. You just need HCl (muriatic pool acid) and sulfuric acid. There are things on the internet with details.
2. The home chemist usually takes the free base crystals and mixes them with a minimal amount of aqueous acid like 10% HCl. When I say minimal, I mean as small amount as is required to dissolve the crystals in the water/acid solution. You then will need to evaporate the water. This is why you use as little as is needed, b/c water takes fucking forever to evaporate. You wont see any crystals until all the water has evaporated.
What you are doing is putting a proton (H+) on the amine group, which gives a charge to the molecule. This positive charge is balanced by the negative charge on the Cl ion (from HCl). This gives the crystal structure that is formed ionic character, which means it can be solvated by water molecules and pass through your blood stream easier. You would want to make sure you dont have a large excess of HCl on the crystals of course, b/c HCl tends to burn things on your body.
People make many drugs, which usually have an amine in them, into HCl salts so that they are more water soluble. This makes them snortable, injectable, etc. People usually dont smoke HCl salts, b/c they BURN instead of vaporize. Crack and cocaine is the classic example. Cocaine is the HCl salt version of Crack, which is the freebase version. Same molecule, just one was crystallized under acidic conditions, the other under basic conditions.
rbwoodward
Ryan
When in the lab, and I need to prepare an HCl salt, I usually use premade HCl-ether. But when I run out, or im just in a rush and dont feel like making HCl ether, here is what I do.
Take a small (50mL) erlenmeyer flas with a sidearm. Put about 10mL of sulfuric acid in it. Put a septa type stopper on top. Attach some tubing suitable for bubbling gas to the sidearm (I made something using some tubing used in labs, a small syringe, and some other custom stuff) Take a syringe with HCl in it (5mL) slowly drip the HCl into the sulfuric acid. HCl gas is produced, and bubbles into the organic solvent. HCl xtals drop out of solution once the pH becomes acidic. Then filtration is performed, followed by washing the crystals in the appropriate solvent to remove xs HCl.
Take a small (50mL) erlenmeyer flas with a sidearm. Put about 10mL of sulfuric acid in it. Put a septa type stopper on top. Attach some tubing suitable for bubbling gas to the sidearm (I made something using some tubing used in labs, a small syringe, and some other custom stuff) Take a syringe with HCl in it (5mL) slowly drip the HCl into the sulfuric acid. HCl gas is produced, and bubbles into the organic solvent. HCl xtals drop out of solution once the pH becomes acidic. Then filtration is performed, followed by washing the crystals in the appropriate solvent to remove xs HCl.
I was beginning to wonder. You two seemed to be coming to the same conclusions on the same timeline.
rbwoodward
Ryan
I wonder if the HCl salt would be soluble in DMSO....probably. Everything seems to be soluble in DMSO 
rbwoodward
Ryan
Nice. Ive always been scared of DMSO on my skin, since DMSO seems to dissolve everything in my lab, I simply assumed it would dissolve me as well, from the inside out or something. lol. However, I read up on its human toxicity after reading this thread. They have done tons of studies on it, and infact, havent found any significant toxicity problems. There were a few reports of its causing eye problems in a small population in the study, but otherwise - nothing. That makes me really wonder about its use as a transporter for whatever drugs...I have a feeling though that it brings the drugs into the fat layer in your body. Things in the fat layer tend to get released very slowly into the blood stream, and thus it might not serve well for a drug that needs a rapid release into the blood stream (like DMT).
Ok guys, i converted 50mg over into salt form. It's sitting as a thick liquid that doesn't seem like it's going to evaporate anymore. Been sitting out for a few days now.
what should i do to neutralize any acid that may be remaining? Or is anything needed to be done further at this point?
what should i do to neutralize any acid that may be remaining? Or is anything needed to be done further at this point?
rbwoodward
Ryan
Just wondering, how much acid/water did you use? Do you see the crystals forming? What volume of liquid is there? Have you checked the pH with pH paper?
rbwoodward
Ryan
And did you add HCl (conc) dropwise, or did you premix the HCl/H2O? If you used such a tiny amount of water (say, less than 5mL) to dissolve such a small amount of material, I would think it would have mostly evaporated, unless it is very humid where you are. Best thing to do is put it into a small shotglass or something, and then put that into a sealed container (ziplock type) with some sort of desiccant in it (like dririte). You need to get rid of that water by evaporation or dehydration. If you could use very mild heat, that could help too...But the desiccant would be the absolute best way to go.
This is why it is nice to have a rotovap
This is why it is nice to have a rotovap
rbwoodward
Ryan
So I looked up some stuff re: the HCl salt of DMT. Apparently, it does not form well defined crystals, but in fact an amorphous liquid/gel. There is one report of crystals of the HCl salt, but it isn't clear how the authors obtained these..Anyway, I would ensure that the pH is ~6. If you need to raise it, just add a few drops of dilute NaOH. Then I suppose you could proceed with the experiment.