Ayawasqero
Rising Star
Doesn´t beat the IR (intra-rectal) administration of DMT, IMHO, :lol:...
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DMT and DMSO??
- Thread starter danknugz81
- Start date
benzyme said:
Do you recall any of the details? Amounts used, area of body applied to etc.
Dr_Sister was thinking wrists, temples or inner thighs
don't recall the exact details, other than 30 mg to 40 mg were applied, with no noticeable effect.
DMSO, although having subdermal anti-inflammatory/antioxidant
properties, also tends to irritate the skin when initially applied.
DMSO, although having subdermal anti-inflammatory/antioxidant
properties, also tends to irritate the skin when initially applied.
Dr_Sister wonders if the failures using DMSO were because they were dissolving the freebase in DMSO rather than a fumarate. Also wondering whether a MAOI would be called for in case the rate of absorption slower that MAO activity. Will need to generate some solubility data for DMT in DMSO.
This is from an MSDS on DMSO
"DMSO easily penetrates the skin and may enhance the rate of skin absorption of skin-permeable substances. But because of DMSO's low toxicity and its inability to carry less-permeable substances with it through the skin, it can be concluded that DMSO does not pose a significant threat by skin absorption."
Here is another source
which states
"2. Lipid Disruption/Fluidisation by Chemical Penetration
Enhancers
Many enhancers, such as Azone, DMSO, alcohols, fatty
acids and terpenes, have been shown to increase permeability
by disordering or ‘fluidising’ the lipid structure of the
stratum corneum. The diffusion coefficient (D in Eq. 1) of a
drug is increased as the enhancer molecules form
microcavities within the lipid bilayers hence increasing the
free volume fraction. In some cases the enhancers penetrate
into and mix homogeneously with the lipids. However,
others such as oleic acid and terpenes, particularly at high
concentration, pool within the lipid domains to create
permeable ‘pores’ that provide less resistance for polar
molecules. These effects have been demonstrated using
differential scanning calorimetry (DSC) to measure the phase
transition temperature [131-133], electron spin resonance
(ESR) studies [134, 135], fourier transform infrared (FTIR)
[136], Raman spectroscopy [137] and x-ray diffractometry
[19]. These enhancer compounds consist of a polar head
group with a long alkyl chain [138] and are more effective
for hydrophilic permeants, although increased delivery of
lipophilic permeants has also been reported."
and this
"3. Interaction with Keratin
In addition to their effect on stratum corneum lipids,
chemicals such as DMSO, decylmethylsulphoxide, urea and
surfactants also interact with keratin in the corneocytes
[148]. It has been suggested that penetration of a surfactant
into the intracellular matrix of the stratum corneum,
followed by interaction and binding with the keratin
filaments, may result in a disruption of order within the
corneocyte. This causes an increase in diffusion coefficient,
and hence increases permeability. However in many studies
of surfactants, a close relationship between permeation
enhancement and lipid bilayer fluidisation has been observed
suggesting that the lipid lamellae of the stratum corneum
rather than the keratin of the corneocytes is the main site of
action (eg. [149]). Barry [124] suggested that these
molecules may also modify peptide/protein material in the
lipid bilayer domain to enhance permeability."
and this
"Some enhancers act inherently by multiple
mechanisms. For example, high concentrations of DMSO
(above 60%) disturb intercellular organisation, extract
stratum corneum lipids, interact with keratin and facilitate
lipid drug partitioning [3]."
This is from an MSDS on DMSO
"DMSO easily penetrates the skin and may enhance the rate of skin absorption of skin-permeable substances. But because of DMSO's low toxicity and its inability to carry less-permeable substances with it through the skin, it can be concluded that DMSO does not pose a significant threat by skin absorption."
Here is another source
Addiction News | Alcohol Rehab | Alcohol Detox News
Discover the latest and most cutting-edge news relating to drug detox & alcohol detox. Bentham is maintained by a team of expert writers covering global news in the addiction & Recovery field.
www.bentham.org
which states
"2. Lipid Disruption/Fluidisation by Chemical Penetration
Enhancers
Many enhancers, such as Azone, DMSO, alcohols, fatty
acids and terpenes, have been shown to increase permeability
by disordering or ‘fluidising’ the lipid structure of the
stratum corneum. The diffusion coefficient (D in Eq. 1) of a
drug is increased as the enhancer molecules form
microcavities within the lipid bilayers hence increasing the
free volume fraction. In some cases the enhancers penetrate
into and mix homogeneously with the lipids. However,
others such as oleic acid and terpenes, particularly at high
concentration, pool within the lipid domains to create
permeable ‘pores’ that provide less resistance for polar
molecules. These effects have been demonstrated using
differential scanning calorimetry (DSC) to measure the phase
transition temperature [131-133], electron spin resonance
(ESR) studies [134, 135], fourier transform infrared (FTIR)
[136], Raman spectroscopy [137] and x-ray diffractometry
[19]. These enhancer compounds consist of a polar head
group with a long alkyl chain [138] and are more effective
for hydrophilic permeants, although increased delivery of
lipophilic permeants has also been reported."
and this
"3. Interaction with Keratin
In addition to their effect on stratum corneum lipids,
chemicals such as DMSO, decylmethylsulphoxide, urea and
surfactants also interact with keratin in the corneocytes
[148]. It has been suggested that penetration of a surfactant
into the intracellular matrix of the stratum corneum,
followed by interaction and binding with the keratin
filaments, may result in a disruption of order within the
corneocyte. This causes an increase in diffusion coefficient,
and hence increases permeability. However in many studies
of surfactants, a close relationship between permeation
enhancement and lipid bilayer fluidisation has been observed
suggesting that the lipid lamellae of the stratum corneum
rather than the keratin of the corneocytes is the main site of
action (eg. [149]). Barry [124] suggested that these
molecules may also modify peptide/protein material in the
lipid bilayer domain to enhance permeability."
and this
"Some enhancers act inherently by multiple
mechanisms. For example, high concentrations of DMSO
(above 60%) disturb intercellular organisation, extract
stratum corneum lipids, interact with keratin and facilitate
lipid drug partitioning [3]."
OK, your Sister hit the jackpot on solubility data, hot damn!
at a glance this data would suggest that the fumarate would work better than a freebase
at a glance this data would suggest that the fumarate would work better than a freebase
It would be nice if someone could find a way to make transdermal dmt to work. Dr_sister you're right, most people have been trying with freebase, the reason being that the freebase is (assumingly) far more soluble in than the salts. I think I read somewhere that someone used dmt acetate, I cannot guarantee that though.
When SWIM played with the transdermal route he also tried taking harmalas (he doesn not remember amount, it was possibly at th2 200-300mg range) followed by 100mg freebase dissolved in DMSO and rubbed in the inside of his arms. He also recalls the following skin irritation, but this was always from the DMSO+dmt mixture, never from DMSO alone.
When SWIM played with the transdermal route he also tried taking harmalas (he doesn not remember amount, it was possibly at th2 200-300mg range) followed by 100mg freebase dissolved in DMSO and rubbed in the inside of his arms. He also recalls the following skin irritation, but this was always from the DMSO+dmt mixture, never from DMSO alone.
i tried it out orally for a bit but it literally made me smell like vegetable oil for the next 24 hours or so.. now i just put MSM in smoothies or mixed with zeolite in spring water in the mornings
if you use it transdermally be careful that your skin doesn't come in contact with any strange chemicals/lotions/colognes/perfumes/etc before and afterwards because DMSO literally pushes things into cells
if you use it transdermally be careful that your skin doesn't come in contact with any strange chemicals/lotions/colognes/perfumes/etc before and afterwards because DMSO literally pushes things into cells
mrwiggle
Rising Star
my lifestyle lends to that pretty well...i bath with apple cider vineagar, essential oils and such, so i shouldn't have any weird toxic soap residues or anything...i was thinking of making a special bandage to hold it "safe" so you dont accidentally rub something and have it dissolve into your bloodstream while it on ones skin....it seems like pharmaceutical grade manufacturers recommend storing it in polyethylene. so that is like most random soft plastics ya?...maybe one could literally use a band aid with straight mimosa or fb mixed into dmso on the little plastic square?
universe cannon have you tried diatomaceous earth with your drink? it will lend well to mix with zeolite...i was drinking zeolite but now i nebulize it with colloidal silver
universe cannon have you tried diatomaceous earth with your drink? it will lend well to mix with zeolite...i was drinking zeolite but now i nebulize it with colloidal silver
have you read the thread? i just read a bit..and no one seemed to get any affects from putting the dmt/dmso mix onto they're skin. seems like sublingually is the only route that worked but imo the negative far outweigh the positive. if you really can't stand an ayahuasca brew then maybe look into pharmahuasca if you haven't
..40mg DMT freebase with DMSO under the arms (twice) produced almost no effects..
methyl salicylate worked better, but with considerable burning heat, and still only 'buzzy' (with enhanced dreams afterwards)..
.there was a buzz about DMSO with external etheogens in the mid 90s, but numerous attempts failed..
it may increase sublingual activity..
methyl salicylate worked better, but with considerable burning heat, and still only 'buzzy' (with enhanced dreams afterwards)..
.there was a buzz about DMSO with external etheogens in the mid 90s, but numerous attempts failed..
it may increase sublingual activity..
A messy limonene extraction on a kilo of bark spilled on my skin yielded very noticeable effects. Mydriasis was noted. Intense tracers on light, and a divine glowing euphoria that lasted a few hours. Felt like vaporizing ~20mg or so.
Note: Do not replicate this experiment, limonene is bad for your skin.
Notes: I think coconut oil would be a viable route. See if a gram of freebase dissolves in 30ml of coconut oil or something similar. More experiments need to be conducted.
Note: Do not replicate this experiment, limonene is bad for your skin.
Notes: I think coconut oil would be a viable route. See if a gram of freebase dissolves in 30ml of coconut oil or something similar. More experiments need to be conducted.
i wonder if simply mixing it in with an ayahuasca or pharma type brew then taking it all orally would alter the experience
autodidactus
Rising Star
just so you guys know, i've heard that when you're using dmso transdermally it will allow whatever's on you skin to pass through as well. could be false but just sayin
yea, we know it does- hence why the thread is almost entirely about that. although its 2 years old now