DMT and Legality

[Chaoskampf]

The first couple times I vaped DMT, I got relatively far but never "broke through". Usually, upon coming back to this physical realm, one of the first thoughts to cross my mind was that it is a crime against humanity to keep this from the public. Almost every time I came back there was this tremendous feeling of injustice that went along with DMT, relating to its legal standing and the legal persecution that accompanies really any psychedelic, but in particular DMT.

Then...

I broke through.

After coming back that time, I was utterly stupefied. I could not shake an overwhelming sense of shock and amazement. What was strange was that all of a sudden, DMT's legal standing made perfect sense to me. This could never be legal. There's NO WAY this could ever be allowed to see mass exposure. As painful as it is for me to even utter these words, I felt like perhaps it is for the greater good that this molecule is under such tremendous legal restriction. I'm still coming to terms with this notion though. I believe that it is the right of any person to do with their body as they please, and exploring their consciousness should not be a cause of penalization but rather encouraged and even facilitated. However, breaking through on DMT has given me this unshakeable feeling that maybe 100% of the public isn't ready to experience this, and perhaps it could even produce more problems than it could potentially ameliorate. What do you guys think of this?

 

[ZenSpice]

(All IMHO) DMT definitely aint for 100% of people, far from it in my estimation.

During the oft-labelled 'honeymoon period' I had the occasional notions that it would benefit many people. As I explored further, on a couple of occasions going much deeper myself (still not as deep as some reports on here by some measure either) this notion was fairly quickly reversed.

If someone seeks this kind of thing out then they should be able to experience what it has to offer. Prohibition (imo) has rarely solved anything.

Society being as it is however and the way information is spread in these days, I feel it is destined to be further vilified and categorized in all the more a negative light.

At least DMT has a few rational and well grounded types to serve as some balance in the societal infosphere. Perhaps it is naive of me in this aspect to hope that it will serve as some kind of balance.

Who know with how things are

P.S. That is one brilliant image :thumb_up:

 

[adam]

I don't think any drugs should be illegal. You are right though that not everyone should use this, many people simply wouldn't be able to reintegrate such an experience. I think even the most experienced users still have difficulty reintegrating at times. I think the way things are now is ok, that is they seem to be on a slow course to legalization. These things need imo, a slow legalization process so they can be more smoothly assimilated into society. We don't want a repeat of the 60's where a bunch of 18 years olds are dissolving their egos in acid. We need research and experienced users to lead the way.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Nope, I am not on board with that.

Part of freedom is having the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot.
Now, not everyone will have good reactions, and I would not prescribe DMT to everyone, but it is no one's place to decide what to put in your body but your own.

Blessings
~ND

 

[hixidom]

There are a lot of things that aren't for everybody: Firearms, religion, money, marriage... There are a lot of people who don't handle these things well and/or use them recklessly. That doesn't mean that it should be illegal for everyone to use them. DMT is one of the safer drugs I have experienced in terms of psychological influence and physical danger. At the very most, a licence should be required to use it.

 

[anrchy]

The legalization of DMT would quickly increase our need to spreading harm reduction. Look at the evolutionary process of smoking weed. There are so many crazy devices made strictly for smoking it. So many different methods of ingestion so on. This is happening right now with DMT.

Besides, the mass explosion has been happening. Maybe not quite at the rate that it would if it were to become legal "instantly", but if you look at the process of legalization much more info will be needed to be known about it before its decided (by those in power) its safe for legalization. Look at weed again, weve known it has been safe for a long time, and its legalization isnt going to have a negative impact, IMO, on its use becoming more dangerous since so many people have a lot of experience with it.

Salvia is a pretty good example. It started out legal not too long ago. It became abused and some bad things happened leading to it becoming illegal in certain places. The same thing probably would happen on the same level if DMT had been brought into the light in the same manner.

I think its important to slowly integrate it into our society in the way that is being done. This way those that win the Darwin Award for dosing 100mg of DMT during one of their first trips will be a much needed learning lesson for future participants without causing DMT to be viewed in the negative spotlight.

So should it be legal? Yes it should. Right this second? NO. Society now is much different than it was way back when. Safety is a concern and its too bad that DMT wasnt legal before so that all the mistakes could have been made earlier. It sucks for me to be able to say that in honesty. I dont think anything that is a victimless crime should be illegal. BUT in our current situation this is how it needs to be done. Except a little faster.

 

[Infectedstyle]

More research needs to be done. And i think that some consensus about where dmt takes you has to be present for dmt to be legalized. I think politicians are scared of losing votes if they take the stance of legalizing a "Hard-drug" like dmt. I suppose it is possible that there are politicians that would like to see it legalized, but if they would openly admit it, they would lose popularity and thus the power to do make any other positive change on society. Society as a whole is not ready for DMT, but nobody should ever be prosecuted for using OR distributing dmt. That is certainly a crime on humanity.

A licence sounds good to me. But then.. In what kind of school would you need to pass the test?

 

[anrchy]

More research needs to be done. And i think that some consensus about where dmt takes you has to be present for dmt to be legalized. I think politicians are scared of losing votes if they take the stance of legalizing a "Hard-drug" like dmt. I suppose it is possible that there are politicians that would like to see it legalized, but if they would openly admit it, they would lose popularity and thus the power to do make any other positive change on society. Society as a whole is not ready for DMT, but nobody should ever be prosecuted for using OR distributing dmt. That is certainly a crime on humanity.

A licence sounds good to me. But then.. In what kind of school would you need to pass the test?

Well the Nexus University of course :thumb_up:

 

[Dan]

dmt seeks out the user not the other way around.

legal or not if you are called you will answer.

i would focus on winning the 100% legalization of cannabis way before legalization of psychedelics. you have to topple the first domino before the rest can fall.

blessings.

 

[ZenSpice]

I think its important to slowly integrate it into our society in the way that is being done. This way those that win the Darwin Award for dosing 100mg of DMT during one of their first trips will be a much needed learning lesson for future participants without causing DMT to be viewed in the negative spotlight.

Couldn't agree more. I think everything you said is pretty much on point

 

[Observant]

I am convinced that the our drug laws cause much more harm than the substances themselves.

 

[nen888]

I am convinced that the our drug laws cause much more harm than the substances themselves.

agreed..
like, 1 year in jail with your back up against a wall, playing with murderers
vs. exploring your mind with non-lethal plants..
.

 

[Felnik]

I remember a Terrence McKenna talk where he seemed
To think its everyone's birthright to experience these things .
I think he was speaking about mushrooms .

I can understand why the powers that be would
Not want people using DMT . It would be very detrimental to the
Current system in a big way. I could go on and on about this but won't
For obvious reasons .

 

[anrchy]

I am convinced that the our drug laws cause much more harm than the substances themselves.

agreed..
like, 1 year in jail with your back up against a wall, playing with murderers
vs. exploring your mind with non-lethal plants..
.

Agreed as well but to a point. The use of DMT may be non lethal for a single user like us, but don't forget to look at the macro. If DMT were to be legalized today there would be much more harm done to people who didn't learn respect in the first place. Don't forget there has been atleast one death We know of while on DMT. It wasn't the drug itself, it was what happened while on the drug. Expect this kind of thing to happen on a bigger scale without the proper initiation of psychs into society.

 

[hug46]

I think most of the people that take DMT with a lack of respect would soon go off of it. Deaths in connection to DMT are a possibility but i would put my house on the figure being nowhere near alcohol related deaths, auto accidents etc. It shouldn"t be illegal. Maybe a minimum age.

 

[Observant]

I really don't think fair laws would inherit a significant danger for society.

 

[anrchy]

I think most of the people that take DMT with a lack of respect would soon go off of it. Deaths in connection to DMT are a possibility but i would put my house on the figure being nowhere near alcohol related deaths, auto accidents etc. It shouldn"t be illegal. Maybe a minimum age.

Your completely correct IMO. But the point is that we don't want these things to happen on psychs and it becoming legal too quickly and bad things happening wouldn't prove our constant defense that they can be safe.

As far alcohol goes, there aren't any safe alternatives to the current trends in its use. If transportation for the intoxicated was integrated in a way that was way more convenient than driving, and alcohol was delivered like dominoes pizza, this I bet would decrease the deaths dramatically. I know there are currently in place sober driver taxis, even some are free, but they are miniscule to the sheer amount of drinkers and isn't nearly as convenient as jumping in your own car.

This is why protective circumstances need to be put in place in order create a safe usability of psychedelics. And to add, a lot of people have driven on acid/mushrooms before. Which of course is much more dangerous than driving on alcohol. I couple this with DMT being legal because I think when it is legalized mushrooms and LSD will be either at the same time or before.

 

[nen888]

I am convinced that the our drug laws cause much more harm than the substances themselves.

agreed..
like, 1 year in jail with your back up against a wall, playing with murderers
vs. exploring your mind with non-lethal plants..
.

Agreed as well but to a point. The use of DMT may be non lethal for a single user like us, but don't forget to look at the macro. If DMT were to be legalized today there would be much more harm done to people who didn't learn respect in the first place. Don't forget there has been atleast one death We know of while on DMT. It wasn't the drug itself, it was what happened while on the drug. Expect this kind of thing to happen on a bigger scale without the proper initiation of psychs into society.

..agreed..and there have been a dozen or more deaths on poorly supervised ayahuasca (or due to contraindications) ..i would hope that with legalisation would come better education..
a more realistic model may be semi-legalisation..as in either licensing practitioners (like naturopaths) or doing a study course in safety..
but this is all control, isn't it?

i think, with a media like we have, we are a long way from seeing ayahuasca, let alone DMT, legalised..

at the end of the day, though, smoking DMT is statistically many hundreds of thousands of times safer than driving a car, let alone owning a gun..
.

 

[hug46]

As far alcohol goes, there aren't any safe alternatives to the current trends in its use. If transportation for the intoxicated was integrated in a way that was way more convenient than driving, and alcohol was delivered like dominoes pizza, this I bet would decrease the deaths dramatically. I know there are currently in place sober driver taxis, even some are free, but they are miniscule to the sheer amount of drinkers and isn't nearly as convenient as jumping in your own car.

Sorry i didnt word my post right. I meant death by auto accidents, not necessarily related to alcohol. Or, as Observant noted, death by bic biro lids. It"s a dangerous world out there but i don"t need to be wrapped in cotton wool.
If you get your booze delivered or get taxis everywhere that still doesn"t change the fact that some people do very dangerous things on alcohol.
I"m with Nen, legalise and licence. I am not against a bit of control. It"s a step in the right direction.

 

[anrchy]

Right. I feel the same. The only reason control is good is due to the current societal structures we live in. Overall nothing should be illegal, but some laws do help, currently, to slow the negative repercussions of an uneducated being.

Education I believe works better than law.

Hug: ya I knew what you meant, I forgot to include auto accidents, which don't you think are caused from lack of education? And you may be right, that you don't need to be wrapped in wool, but MANY people do. And the needs of the many outweigh the few.

I've always thought that there should be some sort of tier structure to laws. Like take cars for example. If you pass a certain class you are then given an endorsement that allows you to drive on certain lanes of the freeway say a lane barricaded in, which has no speed limit. Allow people to prove through edu action that they are capable of being more responsible. I mean isn't that the basic way that we raise our kids?

As your kids get older and show responsibility you increase the things they are allowed to do. Stay up later, ride their bike farther from home, goto parties ect. Then you reach 16 and you can drive. 18 and you are allowed to move out. 21 you can drink alcohol. Yet where are the increased responsibilities at 25 or 30.

Why can't a 50 yr old be allowed to smoke pot?