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DMT and suicide

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lorentz5

lorentz5

Rising Star
I haven't been able to find much about psychedelics being used to help reduce suicidal thoughts, what do you guys think? Here's something I found having to do with LSD http://www.psychedelic-library.org/therapy.htm Is there any more research on this?

We all know psychedelics can break up patterns of thinking, allow one to see situations from new angles, which may be useful for someone with serious intent to kill themselves, but they may also potentially intensify those feelings of suicide.

Would you give DMT to a suicidal person as a last resort? Any other psychedelic? Assuming that is, conventional therapy is just not working?
 
I think the overwhelming intensity and total reality shattering confusion that DMT can induce may be a little too much for someone who doesn't want to live anymore.
Who knows. It could help them appreciate life, or it could send them right off the edge.

There must be better compounds for this kind of therapy.
 
lorentz5 said:
I haven't been able to find much about psychedelics being used to help reduce suicidal thoughts, what do you guys think? Here's something I found having to do with LSD http://www.psychedelic-library.org/therapy.htm Is there any more research on this?

We all know psychedelics can break up patterns of thinking, allow one to see situations from new angles, which may be useful for someone with serious intent to kill themselves, but they may also potentially intensify those feelings of suicide.

Would you give DMT to a suicidal person as a last resort? Any other psychedelic? Assuming that is, conventional therapy is just not working?
Click to expand...


I have a lot experience with fairly serious depression, the kind involving suicidal thoughts and it's a daily challenge, I think drugs can be as much to blame as a help, of course not all drugs are the same, I think stims can exacerbate the problem, and although psychedelics have helped me, I would think DMT is just too taxing mentally, I feel oddly about it because it could help, but it's just too risky when you're in that fragile state... it could totally send them over the edge... I mean, I do remember one time doing it and somehow I got the idea in my head that maybe hyperspace was on the other side of death and it was very compelling for a while... on the question of last resort, perhaps I would agree with that, but DMT is probably not the last resort... I think DMT would be something to look to when you're out of the suicidal woods and at least stable, they can be part of the road back to mental health.... then again, I have done the last resort thing before and it works, if you're out of options, then I would consider it... but probably aya/pharma is better for this kind of thing...

I agree with house, there are other things to try before DMT. I've been raving about methoxetamine lately, and honestly, it is the strongest antidepressant I've come across, it has brought me back from the brink a couple of times now and another one is ketamine but not so much, both of those have very real short term antidepressant qualities that last for about a week for me. That said, I still get dark thoughts moving onto ideation still and I've come to realise that drugs are not going to fix it, but can be good as a band aid, actually I'm still try to find solutions myself because my situation seems to have gotten worse rather than better. The strong psychs like DMT are good for developing your personality and can make you have a better life, but the solutions have to be real things and I'm not even sure there are any.
 
Some thoughts from someone who has thought of suicide herself...
Vaporizing dmt is probably too abrupt and intense for this application. That said, the entheogens may be useful in supporting recovery and healing. Psilocybin? Moderate dose ayahuasca? MDMA? IMO, using them in this manner should be accompanied by support from a few experienced, dedicated friends/family and a therapist - the therapist doesn't even have to know... but a professional ear which is not personally involved can be very helpful. Long term "setting" with dedicated help integrating is the responsible way to go with folks having suicidal thoughts.
There are few therapists who work with entheogens publicly for obvious reasons, but Neal Goldsmith is one. Don't know if he is any good.

Dr. Neal Goldsmith - Home Page
 
Assuming they're hellbent on suicide and little you can say or do to intervene beyond providing some DMT, I think it could potentially be a helpful last resort. I think if someone in that state can see that there is more to life than the mundane (or negative) reality that they have been suffocating in, then I think it would be reasonable action. Now, having said that, I realize that many of those who attempt or contemplate suicide can be persuaded and other means should come into play first, but if it's a person who is A) gonna kill himself pretty much no matter what, or B) is willing to try DMT before killing themselves, I don't see much harm in option B. Even assuming they received a negative experience from it, in such a state would it really matter?
 
I can speak from experience!
It's either HIT or FAIL!
My friend, your suicidal toughts can become much more intense OR you can simply let go and become refreshed.

I would either consult professional help or be willing to give up my negative beliefsystem(s).

Try to see your thoughts and learn to trigger positive thinking!
 
I think a strong psychedelic experience has a great chance of changing a persons mind if this person has suïcidal thoughts or tendencies. Even if it would be an experience that would unleash an awfull lot of negative feelings. Many people find that they've learned the most even, from their most frightening journeys into hell.

So it could be very helpfull, but that's just what i personally think. I don't have any other information on this realy, than my own experience and what others have told me.

I can see the risk. I also think that a very severe depression won't be cured with just a single experience with psychedelic's like DMT, ayahuasca, psilocin or LSD. There is a great chance that the depression would eventually return after a while, so any form of psychedelic therapy would have to exist of repeated sessions spread over a significant period of time, combined with some form of guidance in integrating the experience in between sessions.

Of all psychedelic's i think ibogaine and ayahuasca are probably of most therapeutic value, and LSD and vaporised DMT probably the least.

The greatest risk is probably of an extremely bad-trip that would cause PTSS on top of all the pre-existing problems but the chance of that happening would be probably very small with the right kind of guidance both during the experience and afterwards.
 
I had a funny thought:

Let's say this person is literally about to jump off the bridge into the storm of high-speed traffic miles below. You give him dmt as a last resort. He freaks out and kills himself.

You could say it was because of the dmt experience, it pushed him over the edge, no pun intended.
So the only way to give them dmt in relation to suicide would be to dose them as they are falling to their death.
Which will suck for someone so confused, and this would be a useless and impossible task.
 
gobalswg said:
Assuming they're hellbent on suicide and little you can say or do to intervene beyond providing some DMT, I think it could potentially be a helpful last resort. I think if someone in that state can see that there is more to life than the mundane (or negative) reality that they have been suffocating in, then I think it would be reasonable action. Now, having said that, I realize that many of those who attempt or contemplate suicide can be persuaded and other means should come into play first, but if it's a person who is A) gonna kill himself pretty much no matter what, or B) is willing to try DMT before killing themselves, I don't see much harm in option B. Even assuming they received a negative experience from it, in such a state would it really matter?
Click to expand...


That's what I was going to say. I was going to ask you to define "Last Resort". Has the person attempted suicide in a convincing manner before? Were their failures due to incompetence or where they just cries for help? If they are truly suicidal and have attempted and failed, tried hospitalization, medication etc and that hasn't worked, dried up all of their resources and are truly hellbent on suicide, the sure. Try DMT. They are going to kill themselves anyway. I'd suggest changa though. Caapi and DMT.
People who are truly suicidal are either dead or on their way there. Attempts do fail due to incompetence. Who has practice right?

But really think about this. Get all of the information you can about this person and their intentions, their social support system, any medical intervention etc. Don't make this a rash decision. If all other avenues are TRULY dried up, then I'd seriously consider it.

Many years ago, the love of my friends and family and the anticipation of the next XTC record saved my life. Then psychedelics cemented my resolve to stick around. Unless I'm terminally ill with a life of pure suffering ahead of me, I'm sticking around. I want to see what happens next. Our of all the matter in the universe, I was lucky enough to coalesce into me. I want to see the ride through to the end. NOt that I'm anti-suicide or anything, but it can take some time in pain to see how good things are. I hope your friend doesn't give up too easily. In the words of Wm. S. Burroughs: "You have to be in hell to see heaven"
 
I think a strong enough dose given to suicidal persons without prior psychedelic use would give the famous feelings of dieing when blasting off, I think if someone who wanted to die, having experience something very close to death and then we all know how most feel coming out of a trip like that (thrilled to be alive). So whats to say that they would realize how important life is, and that its one gift you really dont want to return, we should all want to use this gift till its old and falling apart, before we cash in for the next.


Much peace and love.
 
Definitely hit or miss with giving them dmt..as with any psychedelic in this situation-theres no way to really be sure what the outcome will be

You can sway the chances in favor of a positive trip, i think; by showing them trip reports and helping them with the research they should do before dosing. Definitely let them research ALOT before doing it..because even simply spending a few days on this could really help in avoiding negative reactions to the experience, since having a rough idea of what they might encounter can be enough to swing the trip back on track. The set and setting would be of utmost importance here, of course. I'm a firm believer that even a low dose of mushrooms in nature can help most people to reconnect with themselves and the world on a level that is very beneficial to their outlook..essentially revivifying that curious child-like spirit of exploration and amazement of life that society cuts from us as we mature.

Caapi is like natures anti-depressant, so maybe that would be a better first step before the intensity of other psychedelics like dmt.. There has been studies done in this area with ayahuasca that maybe you could point them to. If it was my good friend in trouble here..i'd give them 5g in the morning, and 5g at night for a week. Then a higher dose at the end of the week (nothing crazy) combined with maybe a first very low dose changa session with beautiful music..just my thoughts on what i'd do if a friend was in need.

Good luck to your friend and keep us updated
 
If someone suicidal loves the DMT experience and considers it to be what lies beyond physical existence, they will likely kill themselves to get back to it surely?
 
another quick thought about this... DMT for me was a proper epoch in my life, I mean I now see my life divided into 2 parts, before DMT and after DMT, I mean, I was forever changed by the experience, and radically changed my attitude, it showed me that I don't really know what's going on, why things are the way they are, and that there is a lot more to life than meets the eye...but when I did it first time I wasn't exactly in a suicidal state, maybe on a self destructive path... I know the suicidal state, it's practically insanity, not to be messed with.
 
By the way I think that Ayahuasca might be more beneficial to a suicidal person than vaped DMT.

Otherwise it might be very beneficial to give an IM of ketamine to your friend, it has been shown to help tremendously with
depression, even with people who were extremely depressed and unresponsive to every kind of treatments (medication, psychotherapy, group therapy, etc...)
 
Ketamine has been shown to help with depression, I have read. I think iboga would be the one to help suicidal thoughts, though. It boosts some of the feel good chemicals in the brain for a longer period, not to mention the trip can help one take a good honest look at themselves and their subconscious. Iboga has been the most physically and mentally healing entheogen I have ever taken. And I have had plenty of suicidal thoughts in my days.
 
I'd go for a good dose of shrooms.
Either they will show you the magic of life, or they will show you hell so life won't look so bad afterwards.
 
childofthetao said:
If someone suicidal loves the DMT experience and considers it to be what lies beyond physical existence, they will likely kill themselves to get back to it surely?
Click to expand...

I think this is a pretty unlikely outcome. Assuming they're pleased with what they see, it should inspire hope that they still can feel euphoric and see the world for a colorful, detailed and humbling place to live in most cases. I suppose that could happen, but I would bet that enjoying a "perceived afterlife" would actually make people want to live longer.
 
I say it really depends on the internal set & setting of whoever thinks of taking DMT.
SWIM has belief system that is "open for maintenance" so to speak. SWIM's mind may be completely annihilated and reconstructed in a DMT flash; He will not fight it.
Thusfar he has allways observed his Mind fighting it. His Ego. But he can readily detatch from his Ego and does not Mind it's suffering and it's resistance.

If your friend is heavily identified witgh his egoic mind-structure, then he might feel as if HE is under attack.
In which case he will resist the experience which leads to the general direction of no good and may leave scars.
 
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