Dmt Dreams - endogenous psychedelic release

[SpaceGandalf]

Dmt Dreams - endogenous psychedelic release

Due to some personal experiences I have been researching the phenomena of “DMT dreams”, and would appreciate anyone who has experience of or thoughts about such phenomena to contribute to this thread, as well as posting any relevant links. (If you are not a full member you can start a new thread titled “re: Dmt Dreams - endogenous psychedelic release” in the new member section)

Dreams in their own regard are incredibly strange things, which are still something of an enigma to science. It has been proposed in the past that endogenous DMT plays a role in normal dreaming - I do not think that this is the case. One thing that there is significant evidence for is that melatonin plays an important role in sleep and dreaming - Melatonin is a neurochemical converted from serotonin by the pineal gland. Not only is DMT similar to serotonin, this is also the case with melatonin. (For a good article on the neurochemistry of dreams see here; https://www.reagent.co.uk/the-chemistry-of-dreaming/ )

From my reading and experience on this subjects I would propose that “DMT dreams” fall into two distinct categories:

1. Dreams about DMT: people who have done DMT report dream experiences where they are offered DMT or the dream directly resembles a DMT experience. There is ample rationale within current academic thinking to explain this. It is commonly believed that the dream state uses the dreamer’s memories to construct a dream narrative - if this is the case then it makes sense that for someone who has done DMT that your dreams could pull memories from the DMT experience. I have had such an experience, three weeks after first trying DMT - in the middle of the dream I seemed to have a spontaneous DMT experience (I can still vividly remember the dream, despite not writing it down, which is not normal for me)

2. Post dream DMT effects: there are reports from people that have used DMT that upon waking from a dream they feel like they have just taken DMT, noting symptoms of this. The dreams themselves are not exceptionally different from normal dreams from what I have read. I have experienced this three times, the night of the day I took DMT, then one week and two weeks after. Upon waking I had “DMT breath” like you get when coming up on DMT, where the air feels like a high frequency metallic vibration going in. There was also a distinct “DMT afterglow” sensation. (There was also something very strange that linked the second and third dreams)

Based on my experiences and those I have read, I would speculate that using DMT can trigger the ability to create an endogenous release of a psychedelic substance during sleep. This would not necessarily have to be the DMT molecule itself, but something very similar - considering the role of melatonin in sleep it could be simply an increased amount of this or the conversion of serotonin into something else by the pineal gland - but this is pure conjecture.

 

[xss27]

I sometimes get these strong geometric visual hallucinations upon waking from a dream that last for 10-20 seconds, that are present with both eyes open or closed but more inviting with eyes closed. They have a strong DMT feel to them in both oscillation and colour. On a bright sunny day if I just sit there with my eyes closed for 10 minutes then open them I can get the same effect. There's also this same headspace feeling like my mind has been doing something else that feels again like the afterglow of a DMT experience.

 

[FranLover]

*In the most vivid nightmare one has had to date one was offered to smoalk DMT and naturally it was a trap to have a bad trip...in the nightmare one overcame the bad dmt trip through meditation.

*Once in a dream one was walking down one's old city streets and saw a newspaper store which had in its headlines the first page of a newspaper which read DMT SOON TO BE LEGALIZED.

*Everynight one falls asleep one sees fractals in the hypnagogic state or in REM sleep. Its very much like DMT in feeling. This ocurrs through meditation. Awareness can focus even in sleep.

*The night before one took dmt for the first time, which was also one's first psychedelic hallucinogen, one had a vivid dream which was dmt like in appearence as it was geometrical, intergalactic, and was inhabited by two beings which directed one to look in a certain direction. The direction was a wall with code on it. The code contained the truth.

Our memory of ‘I’ is quite unlike our memory of anything else. What experiences and remembers other things is our mind, but what experiences and remembers ‘I’ (our own existence and awareness) is only ‘I’ itself. Our experience ‘I’ or ‘I am’ is essentially timeless, because whether we experience time (as in waking and dream) or no time (as in sleep), we always experience ‘I am’, so this ever-present experience is beyond time.

Let the mind sleep but you stay awake

Existence or Consciousness is the only reality. Consciousness plus waking we call waking. Consciousness plus sleep we call sleep. Consciousness plus dream, we call dream. Consciousness is the screen on which all the pictures come and go. The screen is real, the pictures are mere shadows on it.

 

[HagRaven13]

Interesting post, ive thought about the possibility of dmt in dreams a number of times and my main point of speculation is ive never had a dream come close to resembling a dmt experience(this may just be me or i dont remember) vice versa ive never had a dmt experience that has felt like a dream, id say the main difference is the setting, dmt ism always placed somewhere out of this world that i couldnt make up if i tried , as for dreams it always seems to be some real world scenario. ive been told and read that dreams are simulations of scenarios involving survival(sometimes) that we inherited through evolution, i say sometimes because now a days survival isn't hunting and gathering, but for someone back in the day a simulation of a hunt may give them advantages. this is also just a theory but its definetly thought provoking to say the least.

As for waking up tripping(lsd type visuals), ive definitely had this happen a couple times its actually quite frightening, thankfully it doesnt last long. and this did start to happen after i used dmt, as well as a few other weird sleep paralysis and premonition types experiences. i hope we figure it out eventually.

 

[twitchy]

I read something quite a while back about melatonin being converted to DMT during REM sleep. Apparently our breathing gets deeper and that creates a hyperoxia(?) state that converts it to DMT in the lungs via Alkalosis. I wish I remembered more about it, gonna have to see if I can dig that article up out of my research folders. It was beyond my pay grade to understand the exact process but it was well written and seemed reasonable when I read it.

 

[benzyme]

..melatonin being converted to DMT during REM sleep.

not possible.

melatonin has a 5-methoxy group, and no enzyme exists in the human body (or brain) to remove it.

endogenous DMT production is achieved in a side-pathway, independent of melatonin production. in fact, the two are inversely proportional (as is serotonin): production of 5HT and its metabolites inhibits DMT production, and vice-versa. It's called "feedback inhibition".

 

[twitchy]

..melatonin being converted to DMT during REM sleep.

not possible.

melatonin has a 5-methoxy group, and no enzyme exists in the human body (or brain) to remove it.

endogenous DMT production is achieved in a side-pathway, independent of melatonin production. in fact, the two are inversely proportional (as is serotonin): production of 5HT and its metabolites inhibits DMT production, and vice-versa. It's called "feedback inhibition".

I'll see if I can dig up the source, maybe you guys will understand it better than I did.

 

[benzyme]

what is possible is production of the melatonin metabolite 'pinoline', the brain's endogenous MAOI.

 

[some one]

Near break through while sober in a lucid dream - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[dreamer042]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

[TalkingGarden]

So I will say without a doubt my dreams are "stranger" (last night we couldn't find a old friend for a week only to find out she had been living in side a locker (yes small locker like you had in high school) for that entire week she had not left that locker) WEIRD!!! Also I can remember my dreams ALMOST every night! even if I dont remember immediately some time throughout the day I will. Another thing to note it seems my body is connected to my dreams. Since using dmt if I have to go to the bathroom in my dream I wake up and well I GOTA GO! HAHA

 

[benzyme]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

this.

notice: none of the compounds have a 5-HO/CHO removed. (because it is neither energetically favorable, nor genetically encoded)

 

[some one]

I hear multiple reports of people experiencing vivid dreams post DMT use. Could be strong emotions getting sorted during sleep.

There are also reports (incl. myself) of more psychedelic experiences surrounding sleep post DMT use. OP looks for a molecular explanation, for which there seems to be lacking evidence. But if our brain is an organic neural network, could opened connection paths be re-triggered at a later stage (flash-backs)? Only way to objectively measure this is brain scans (EEG, MRI, etc). And even then, not sure if we can interpret the raw data to say anything conclusive.

Instead of waiting for science to catch up, I would focus on establishing patterns from collected anecdotal evidence.

 

[AikyO]

Spîce is state of the art projection. But what might change between dreams and a peak psychedelic state ? Maybe the material of the projection. Dreams could be understood as enhanced mental state: the mind is allowed to roam freely in its visual giggling nature. However it is closer to a film that something that involves every fiber of your self. Maybe so because the projection, thought it happens inward, is not directed to the raw material of the body. It does not reach that high synesthetic interconnecting layering. Hence the vividness, nor the impact it may yield will not be of the same intensity, the same sense of hyper realism - the mind projected on its support, the subtle network within the body that sees it flow.

As if one lays down still at the edge of entering dream state, the body weights differently than it does in daily awareness. The occiput very close to the ground make the whole head weight more and seems to draw body fluids to that direction. Lot of people seem to report being pulled to the back of the head at the coming of a strong experience. The liquid state induced by psychedelics might relate to that which weights more in the body, fluids, water, and bones seems like moons, a portal to that. Considering this "setting" and if the experience is still fresh, it seems much more than possible Spîce resurgence would occur.

There is more about this I wanna write about but I haven't found inspiration yet.

 

[ZomakMk7]

After my bufo alvarius experience I've had about 7 flashbacks while sleeping (between the take and 3 months after)
Twice in mid sleep paralysis with both of them being a full blow rocket to hyperspace
And the other 5 while lucid dreaming, pretty intense but mostly visuals and very few body high