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DMT for sleep?

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Nope said:
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Dr. Barker: The only studies conducted on lung tissue were not specific to lung anatomy. My comments were based on an assumption that, if DMT is primarily produced in the lung (where, at that time, the highest enzyme activity had been described) and DMT played any role in schizophrenia, it would, thus, be considered a lung disease. However, I think DMT may primarily be synthesized in the lung during specific physiological states; controlled breathing, such as occurs in many meditative practices, extreme physical exertion, hyperventilation, near-death changes in respiration rates, hypoxia, etc. DMT synthesized in the lung would go directly to the brain, by-passing the metabolic destruction that would occur from liver metabolism. There is some evidence that DMT is neuroprotective and may play a role in neuronal survival in extreme physiological states (either intentional of unintentional) that also alter lung function.
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None of that is evidence that DMT is produced in the lungs, it's just one man speculating. I'd want to see pulmonary tissue samples with measurable concentrations of DMT, as well as the precursors and enzymes necessary to carry out this pathway. Same is true of the liver.

Even then, that still wouldn't suggest that DMT was actually doing something and wasn't just physiological white noise - for that I'd want to see what kind of effects the blockade of that pathway has on behavior and physiological function. Ideally, all of these findings would then be replicated.

If that sounds like unrealistically high expectations, now you know why science takes so bloody long...

Blessings
~ND
 
haha. I understand and appreciate your academic level of scrutiny, but the idea of DMT being simply extra biological white noise is just absurd to me. I totally understand you withholding until hard science comes out, but I do believe what I said earlier contained "probably" and cited the rate at which DMT is broken down and lack of research being the reasons the hard science doesn't exist.

I cannot wait to be fascinated with the actual hard studies finally showing why DMT (very probably) is present in our (or any) biology but no person in earth could ever convince me of it being somehow an accident or "extra" to the system.

I do not believe the Universe does "extra". It's a closed system.
 
Ulim said:
Nope said:
edit: after double checking I found that there are several studies showing the existence of DMT in the Pineal Gland of rodents.
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There are also cacti that contain mescaline does that mean we contain it too?
A lab rat is not a human. They work as an organism but arent nearly as complicated as we are.
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We're actually pretty freakin' close

Furthermore, almost all human genes known to be associated with diseases have counterparts in the rat genome and appear highly conserved through mammalian evolution, confirming that the rat is an excellent model for many areas of medical research.

Comparison of the rat genome to those of the human and mouse also opens a new and unique window into mammalian evolution. The rodent lineage, which gave rise to the rat and mouse, and the primate lineage, which gave rise to humans, diverged about 80 million years ago. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, while rats have 21 and mice have 20. However, the new analysis found chromosomes from all three organisms to be related to each other by about 280 large regions of sequence similarity -- called "syntenic blocks" -- distributed in varying patterns across the organisms' chromosomes.
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www.nhlbi.nih.gov

News and Events

See upcoming NHLBI events and the latest NHLBI news mentions, press releases, research features related to heart, lung, blood, and sleep science research.
www.nhlbi.nih.gov www.nhlbi.nih.gov
 
Nope said:
haha. I understand and appreciate your academic level of scrutiny, but the idea of DMT being simply extra biological white noise is just absurd to me. I totally understand you withholding until hard science comes out, but I do believe what I said earlier contained "probably" and cited the rate at which DMT is broken down and lack of research being the reasons the hard science doesn't exist.

I cannot wait to be fascinated with the actual hard studies finally showing why DMT (very probably) is present in our (or any) biology but no person in earth could ever convince me of it being somehow an accident or "extra" to the system.

I do not believe the Universe does "extra". It's a closed system.
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As an article of faith, that's totally fine, and you are more than welcome to maintain that belief, but when proposing roles for DMT or presenting things as fact, you should be cognizant of whether you're basing your argument on evidence, or faith.

Blessings
~ND
 
I think it's a fairly logical conclusion.

>>Everything<<
^ where is there for anything else to come from or go to?

I presented my opinions on DMT as "probably" and produced links when questioned on any particulars.

I have ideas but I'm not simply yelling into the wind with no basis for the noise.

Anywho, what (if any) experience do you have with dmt and sleep?
 
Ulim said:
Melantonin dude.
Its a tryptamine and controls your day night cycle. Way better in any way than DMT
DMT will just keep you awake no matter what.
And how would you microdose it anyways? Using a maoi everytime you sleep is probably a bad idea.
Also smoking it will not do great either.
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Completely agree here. I'm using melatonin to regulate my sleep cycles because of the night shifts for years nearly every day. The problem is bright light, can completely neutralise melatonin (or its production).

There appears to be about 12,000+ papers done on melatonin (so far) and it's still pretty hard to get some clear cut information on it. As far as I know from using it extensively, it works like a charm and it pretty much preserved my health over the years, otherwise I'd be falling apart.

I use pure melatonin now and often I go way beyond what is effective (20-30 or more mg) - the worst thing that can happen: drowsiness, feeling a little grumpy or just oversleeping... I find it best at least 10h before I plan to wake up for proper sleep.

And smoking melatonin is something I read people do on Reddit (if i recall correctly), can give some sort of a high... but pointless and unsafe in my opinion.

Triptamines... yum yum yum. 😁

Aaaaand... magnesium, relatively high doses will relax muscles, pretty safe as well, can give you veeery vivid dreams (especially in combo with melatonin), and help your immune system. 😉
 
Nope said:
I think it's a fairly logical conclusion.

>>Everything<<
^ where is there for anything else to come from or go to?

Anywho, what (if any) experience do you have with dmt and sleep?
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[/quote]
I'm not a prophet, I wouldn't presume to know how 'everything' works. There are plenty of examples of biological white-noise however - many different metabolites serve no purpose, and evolution has left tons of random bits floating around that have since lost their utility. The universe may be a closed system, but that doesn't mean it's a perfectly efficient one. The existence of entropy pretty much proves otherwise.

Blessings
~ND
 
Nathanial.Dread said:
I see far more similarities between psychedelics and the style of cognition of very young children than dreaming.
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Excuse me for going off topic but this part amazes me. Desmond Morris (le british ethologist) made an implication in one of his books that what makes us humans so cerebral is this biological tendecy (adaptation) to stay immature for so long - the learning curve is extended as it takes 25 years (!) to fully develop the prefrontal cortex (Robert Sapolsky). Good news for all you childish adults.

BTW Jesus said something similar, did he not?
 
I wonder if anyone has ever tested the blood of energetic children for psychoactive compounds or high alkaloid levels

edit: also is there a more perfect explanation for the "deju vu" that's fairly commonly associated with the dmt flash than that a similar place is reached during peak dreaming states? That or past lives perhaps.
 
Nope said:
I wonder if anyone has ever tested the blood of energetic children for psychoactive compounds or high alkaloid levels
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That I'd like to know as well. But, there seems to be a recognised (studied) sleeping pattern occurrence among highly intelligent children: when they are young they sleep less then average (opposite for less gifted)... then later, approaching year 10, the tables turn - intelligent kids will more often feel exhausted by external stimuli, therefore require a lot more sleep (again, the opposite for the other side of the spectrum). Melatonin here plays an important role because it acts as a powerful anti-oxidant recovery agent.

Nope said:
also is there a more perfect explanation for the "deju vu" that's fairly commonly associated with the dmt flash than that a similar place is reached during peak dreaming states? That or past lives perhaps.
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I have a very strong feeling that this might be the case, regarding previous lives.
 
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