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DMT freebase is water soluble
- Thread starter mlnese
- Start date
You ain't that busy since you've taken the time to post nonsense and the subsequently doubled own thereafter.
You've provided no evidence, nor sound rationale.
Since you're so busy, I'll make it easy for you.
One love
Ok don't flame me, but I came across a situation that makes me think DMT is soluble in water.
I did a sodium carbonate wash on dry, crude crystals. Closed the jar, shook them up. I filtered the sodium carb water into a separate jar. The solution was crystal clear.
I figured I might as well do a few distilled water washes to wash out residual sodium carbonate. So I added the same amount of distilled water, shook the crystals again. Before filtering I noticed the crystals had coagulated into little pellets. During the sodium carb wash, each crystal was floating around individually as if totally dry.
I didn't think much of it and ran it through a fresh filter paper, into the same jar with the sodium carb wash. The distilled water immediately formed a cloudy layer.
Why would that happen? My gut says some DMT got picked up by the distilled water and crashed out once it met the higher pH water.
I used the same distilled water to dilute the sodium carbonate solution before the wash, and it didn't cloud then. Everything was room temp.
I did a sodium carbonate wash on dry, crude crystals. Closed the jar, shook them up. I filtered the sodium carb water into a separate jar. The solution was crystal clear.
I figured I might as well do a few distilled water washes to wash out residual sodium carbonate. So I added the same amount of distilled water, shook the crystals again. Before filtering I noticed the crystals had coagulated into little pellets. During the sodium carb wash, each crystal was floating around individually as if totally dry.
I didn't think much of it and ran it through a fresh filter paper, into the same jar with the sodium carb wash. The distilled water immediately formed a cloudy layer.
Why would that happen? My gut says some DMT got picked up by the distilled water and crashed out once it met the higher pH water.
I used the same distilled water to dilute the sodium carbonate solution before the wash, and it didn't cloud then. Everything was room temp.
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That's why you should add a pinch of soda carb to your distilled water, distilled water can be slightly acidic due to CO2 absorption from the air
You have it backwards... it's insoluble in sodium carbonate (11 pH), soluble in distilled water (7?). It aligns with the pKa, but yea I thought there had to be a salt to attach to.
CO2 absorption sounds plausible.
Why was everyone flaming the OP then? People breathe on their devices, if there's water there's gonna be carbonic acid.
CO2 absorption sounds plausible.
Why was everyone flaming the OP then? People breathe on their devices, if there's water there's gonna be carbonic acid.
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Not quite sure who had it backwards - maybe @Voidmatrix completely deleted the erroneous comment?
Both you and @Sakkadelic are quite right about the absorption of CO₂ and the remedy in this particular situation. Your observations are valid - the small amount of protons released by the carbonic acid which forms in distilled water will be sufficient to solubilise a corresponding molar quantity of DMT. A small pinch of sodium carbonate is indeed sufficient to neutralise theis acidity.
The counter ion will be bicarbonate in this instance:
CO₂ + H₂O → H⁺ + HCO₃⁻
Fair point. We owe @mInese something of an apology, despite their immediately combative and insulting responses. We were probably [more than] a bit harsh, so thanks for steering this discussion in a more productive direction.
Using a flame (which are always hydrocarbon-based, let's face it) to vaporise DMT, especially if it's absorbed onto herbaceous material, will produce significant quantities of CO₂. This particular set of circumstances could well lead to significant quantities of DMT dissolving in the bong water - and DMT's solubility in nominally 'pure' water will only continue to increase as the atmospheric CO₂ concentration (which is effectively a baseline) continues to increase. This will be exacerbated depending on the local, background CO₂ concentration as well.
By examining the data regarding carbon dioxide's solubility equilibria in water at various atmospheric concentrations, coupled with the equilibria for carbonic acid formation and its dissociation into bicarbonate and hydrions, we can [finally!] extrapolate the likely solubility of DMT in the weakly acidic water under those conditions. (Feel free to give it a try
)
It was me that had it backwards.
@Icon for the win in their approach to talking about this.
So for clarity, DMT is soluble in acidic water, but that's nothing new.
One love
No we don't. From what I recall, they just said "water" not acidic water. They needed to come correct with their own ideas and explain them in an open and productive way. They did not do this and they were not specific. I'm confident most of us considered "water" as a more neutral PH, not acidic which means something else is there to make it acidic.
@Icon for the win in their approach to talking about this.
So for clarity, DMT is soluble in acidic water, but that's nothing new.
One love
I guess I'm feeling particularly benevolent today
It's increasingly difficult to get pH neutral water without either taking some arduous steps - or the simple one of adding a pinch of SC to it.
It was smart of @Icon to point this source of acidity out, it wasn't smart of the OP to react like a total jerk towards being questioned.
What I'd take away from this is that we ought to look into just how much DMT can be dissolved in water with the help of CO₂/carbonic acid. This might turn out to be useful. In all likelihood, DMT bicarbonate [solution] will decompose back to freebase on drying.
Indeed, but again, they needed to highlight this to substantiate their claims. Because while it's hard to get neutral ph water, if you don't then it's not just water. I'm going to go off what was originally said until clarified. They never clarified.I guess I'm feeling particularly benevolent today
It's increasingly difficult to get pH neutral water without either taking some arduous steps or the simple one of adding a pinch of SC to it.
One love
Fair enough, but dissolution of an invisible, mildly acidic gas in water is non-obvious to most people, and easily overlooked to the extent that, for example, while I've mentioned the acidity of distilled water elsewhere before, it didn't occur to me to mention it here.
It's definitely something for us to remain aware of.
It's definitely something for us to remain aware of.
I've seen it said here before that DMT freebase is slightly water soluble and I don't recall any further explanation. I've had older bottles of distilled water show a lower than expected PH so perhaps this is why some think it can dissolve small amounts of DMT. Fresh tap water with it's higher mineral content is less likely to be an issue but you should test it if in doubt.
As for smoking, the bigger the smoking/vaping device used, the more losses IME because there is more surface area for it to condense onto. Cooling with water will cause vapors to condense faster. Small bongs work great but I never used water. I like to be able to put something down sideways by mistake if I can't even tell what it is anymore.
As for smoking, the bigger the smoking/vaping device used, the more losses IME because there is more surface area for it to condense onto. Cooling with water will cause vapors to condense faster. Small bongs work great but I never used water. I like to be able to put something down sideways by mistake if I can't even tell what it is anymore.
Woops, thanks for catching the acid typo, Transform.
+1 on co2 forming from hydrocarbon combustion.
The spice wasn't totally dry from the sodium carbonate wash before washing with distilled water. I'm a little surprised that the residual I meant to pick up wasn't enough to neutralize the carbonic acid. A 'pinch' recommendation might depend on volume.
But maybe since DMT is in fact insoluble in basic water, the sodium carbonate dripped off more thoroughly than I could imagine.
+1 on co2 forming from hydrocarbon combustion.
The spice wasn't totally dry from the sodium carbonate wash before washing with distilled water. I'm a little surprised that the residual I meant to pick up wasn't enough to neutralize the carbonic acid. A 'pinch' recommendation might depend on volume.
But maybe since DMT is in fact insoluble in basic water, the sodium carbonate dripped off more thoroughly than I could imagine.
No worries, it was late for me too and I was a little on the defensive. I'm not sure I even completely understood your point before calling it backwards.
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Well, at least you got the first bit right - you're not a chemist
Consistent chemical structure is what defines distinct chemical compounds at a molecular level. The caveats, nuances and exceptions to this are a large part of learning what chemistry is actually about.
Edit: what the latter part of the assertion alludes to, wittingly or otherwise, is that a large part of chemistry depends on the interaction of different molecules. That, indeed, does not necessarily occur in a linear fashion.
I think it's more like OP doused himself in naphtha and all it took is a little spark from people tired of dealing with people like OP.
It's maybe generally true to say that "water", the common name of the element H2O in its liquid form, can dissolve DMT, but "water" is not the pure element H2O in which DMT solubility or lack of does not have consequential effects in terms of product loss.
but yes, maybe it's generally useful to say that DMT is slightly soluble in "water", as most of the "water" we deal with is likely slightly acidic, so that losses can be avoided like you showed in your experiment. but it's not good to state it as a fact like OP did without evidence and refusing to entertain any discussions about the nuances involved.
Ok well the topic was DMT freebase is soluble in water, not "new novice to dunk on". Last night when this happened and I recalled seeing a thread about it, I was really disappointed to read through it. Maybe this thread should have just been deleted when the user was, because there's tons of dead-end threads like this that have to be filtered through to find relevant information, like the possibility of carbonic acid in relatively pure water. I guess we got to it eventually, but yeesh.
I don't think the OP's attitude was the biggest factor. 2-3 people immediately essentially called him an idiot, that's going to affect their attitude and willingness to collaborate, contribute, i mean c'mon. Lots of threads get no replies at all, I think it was totally unnecessary to pick on OP like that. More than just the OP have to endure it. And the two people with most aggressive replies are both welcoming committee?
This was the only non-inflammatory response he got and he was calmly engaged with it. If that was the only reply, I'm sure someone would have learned from it without hard feelings.
I don't think the OP's attitude was the biggest factor. 2-3 people immediately essentially called him an idiot, that's going to affect their attitude and willingness to collaborate, contribute, i mean c'mon. Lots of threads get no replies at all, I think it was totally unnecessary to pick on OP like that. More than just the OP have to endure it. And the two people with most aggressive replies are both welcoming committee?
This was the only non-inflammatory response he got and he was calmly engaged with it. If that was the only reply, I'm sure someone would have learned from it without hard feelings.
i will when i get some
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